Penn Jillette Speaks Out on RapeLay

cobrausn

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
TsunamiWombat said:
Thats why the 2nd ammendment exists. The Founding Fathers realized corruption could come further down the road and really didn't expect democracy to work, so they gave the citizens the right to bear arms so they could overthrow a tyrranical government if it came to it. Obviously doing things through due process is better, but after living 8 years under president Bush I wondered once or twice...
cobrausn said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Penn usually has some good ideas, but occasionally (like on the Firearms debate: "We need guns to overthrow the Government" : I'm sorry, what?????), he disappears up his own idea chute.
Hey I could agree with that. It's not often a government forms itself with the clause in it's founding documents that if it ever fucks up too much to go ahead and take them out. =P
So Lee Harvey Oswald was just using his Second Amendment right? Is that what you're saying?
Maybe he saw it as such.

I'm simply saying that an armed populace is difficult to opress. Tyrants tend to agree, which is why history is littered with them. They all disarm their populace. For their protection, naturally.

But this is a bit off topic.
 

Sledgimus

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Emotional link, as I explained earlier. That's why there's a charge of lesser murder or manslaughter.
"Murder simulators" are just "press the button", Rape simulators deliberately delineate the voyeur/criminal to heighten the experience. I.E. Your character kills, but it's you who rape.
I'm sorry, I still don't really see what you're getting at. Rape simulators are just "press the button," I don't see how there's a closer connection between player and character in RapeLay than there is in a first person shooter.
 

eelel

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penn u are a briliant man i agree with what u say and that is the best most well thought out oppinion on the matter
 

LewsTherin

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Sledgimus said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
It's sort of tricky to give any better detail without getting disturbing, but I'm sure you can see how a 12 year old getting hold of this (and they will) will become a very dangerous person indeed.
No, I can't see that. I've been digitally murdering people since I was about 8 years old and I've yet to kill anyone in the real world. I've yet to see someone explain how murder in videogames is fine, but rape will push us all over the edge into slavering, unstoppable rape machines.
Emotional link, as I explained earlier. That's why there's a charge of lesser murder or manslaughter.
"Murder simulators" are just "press the button", Rape simulators deliberately delineate the voyeur/criminal to heighten the experience. I.E. Your character kills, but it's you who rape.
QED
 

Threesan

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sisterblues said:
Try mutilation, horribly mutilated, in shreds. Try filling their vaginas up with oil and then setting you on fire. getting the picture yet little boy? There is NOTHING about rape that belongs in a game.
By my definitions, you've crossed from "just" rape, into torturing someone to death, and going on to mutilate the corpse. That's the most horrific thing that I can think of, short of perhaps involving families in this. And yet, should a game based on that be illegal? This is, perhaps, the last and greatest hurdle for the defenders of freedom of speech. Do you dare cross it?

Or, perhaps, should you worry that if you push too hard, it will prove elastic and propel you back down the slippery slope that you fear so much?

That said, there's a catch: no females were harmed in the making of this game, and there is (to my knowledge?) no causal link from playing these games to acting them out in the real world. Perhaps significantly, how many of the Darfur offenders played H games?

Rather, I suspect this has more to do with being raised in a social circle that promotes or accepts such viciousness.

On the other hand, does accepting vile games into society edge us in that direction? But then, moving from assaulting fictional characters to real is not an insignificant leap (for the sane mind)! (But I do not have this answer, and am suspicious of anyone claiming to know this answer.)
 

Iron Mal

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sisterblues said:
randommaster said:
Iron Mal said:
No-one is being forced to play this game, it's not as if women who were previously raped were led into a dark room against their will, injected with a paralysing venom and shown this game.
Can we do this to sisterblues? It would put her forum crusade on hold for a little while.
Well, it didn't take long to see this place is like pretty much the rest of them. A few clearly civilized individuals with a bit of empathy and brains, and a few with brains but no empathy and quite a lot without either. Well tata.....enjoy your virtual raping and killing.
Enlighten me, in your opinion, which group of individuals do I belong to and why?

Your arguement for why rape is a horrible crime (and comparable to murder, even if it is debateable as to which is worse) is solid and I agree with you completely (rape is never justifiable or excuseable).

Your arguement as to why this game is immoral and wrong is somewhat flawed (no-one was harmed in the making of the game, the game itself does not harm anyone and I very much doubt that the game in question would warp or corrupt anyone into commiting the crime of rape).

This wouldn't be the first media to feature rape, 300 had a mild rape scene in it, Evil Dead had a somewhat graphic scene of a girl being abducted by tree branches and (presumeably) violated by more branches and the facehugger in Alien has strong connotations of oral sex against one's will, sexual assault and rape (with the unwanted 'birth' that comes after being a metaphor for the horrors of the pregnency that rape can result in) yet none of these were ever banned or altered to my knowledge.
 

Florion

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"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in [her] own eyes. What matters is not what I think of [her]; it is what [she] thinks of [herself]. To undermine a [woman's] self-respect is a sin." ?adapted from a quote by Antoine de Saint-Exupery

I think rape is worse than murder. One can still respect oneself while they're being murdered, even if it is a horrific experience; rape victims are most often horribly ashamed even though they've done nothing wrong.

Context is kind of important... People laugh at murder jokes in the right context; actually, people laugh at rape jokes if they're done in the right context (you wouldn't make them in polite company, but you've definitely heard them when you're with your friends). But from what I've heard about the gameplay in RapeLay, it's completely disrespectful.
 

Fronken

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cobrausn said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.
Is it really?
Yes, yes it is.

Now im not saying that rape is good, its horrible, but its still a lesser crime than murder.

Rape is something that a person can get over to the extent that they can live normal lives again, but with murder, there is no going back, no therapy nor medication that can bring the person back to life.

I know this because i have female friends who were the victim of rape at a young age, one of them for example got raped by an older friend when she was 12, and she is now 19 and lives a normal life, only thing that might tip you off as to her having been raped is that she is very cautions when it comes to new guys, as she doesnt trust them alot, but that isnt really something unique when it comes to girls that age, true, some are sluts, but alot of them are very cautious and withdrawn, even those that havent been the victim of rape.

Long story short:

Yes, murder is always a worse crime than rape.
 

CD-R

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sisterblues said:
nicely done. Sadly, wrong again. It does normalize sexual violence, look it up son.....and go ahead and make jokes about what is being done to women, girls, baby girls in DRC. Try mutilation, horribly mutilated, in shreds. Try filling their vaginas up with oil and then setting you on fire. getting the picture yet little boy? There is NOTHING about rape that belongs in a game.
You look it up. I'm not going to go looking for YOUR evidence to back up YOUR argument. YOU are the one implying Rapelay is a magical society altering dingus of ultimate power. YOU provide the evidence.

Then again you also said banning the game wasn't censorship.

Doesn't really matter it looks like it isn't going to be banned after all.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.116085
 

Fronken

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Ghostkai said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.
Tell that to a rape victim.

Being murdered doesn't leave you horrifically traumatised.
I have, and she agrees that murder is a worse crime.

And no, being murdered doesnt leave you horrifically traumatised...It leaves you dead, and last time i checked Death isnt something that can be controlled and downplayed using therapy and medication.
 

Jumplion

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I can say, right now, without watching the video, that before we come anywhere CLOSE to rape in game we have to start by making just two people fucking acceptable in video games.

Sex, used as a plot device or a characterization tool, can be essential for stories in gaming and it could lead to many different ways to attach to the characters.

If we make sex acceptable in video games, and not just porn for teenagers, then we could possibly use rape as a plot-device and use it in a traumatizing experience or something.

Frankly, I find the Rapelay game a little sickening as there's a huge difference between watching rape and committing the rape, but it's a fetish just as I'm sure shooting someone in the head is a fetish.
 

CD-R

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Jumplion said:
Frankly, I find the Rapelay game a little sickening as there's a huge difference between watching rape and committing the rape, but it's a fetish just as I'm sure shooting someone in the head is a fetish.
True and a lot of people agree with you. Unfortunately a lot of people are using that to justify banning the game. In cases where peoples' countries guarantee the right to free speech, its not an acceptable justification for censoring something. I don't think we should legislate based on feelings of disgust or revulsion alone.
 

Jumplion

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CD-R said:
Jumplion said:
Frankly, I find the Rapelay game a little sickening as there's a huge difference between watching rape and committing the rape, but it's a fetish just as I'm sure shooting someone in the head is a fetish.
True and a lot of people agree with you. Unfortunately a lot of people are using that to justify banning the game. In cases where peoples' countries guarantee the right to free speech, its not an acceptable justification for censoring something. I don't think we should legislate based on feelings of disgust or revulsion alone.
As long as Rapelay just stays in the bowels of the internet, you know, on those fetish sites and stuff and not publicly shown up on sites like eBay and Amazon, then I'm fine with the game being sold. After all, I'm sure there are loads of things sold on the internet that people really really REALLY don't want to know about.......
 

Slash Dementia

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He said everything greatly. Great video, I'm going to watch more videos of him later.
I'd never play a video game where you have to rape someone, I like a lot of people find it disgusting.
 

GothmogII

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Apr 6, 2008
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Florion said:
"I have no right, by anything I do or say, to demean a human being in [her] own eyes. What matters is not what I think of [her]; it is what [she] thinks of [herself]. To undermine a [woman's] self-respect is a sin." ?adapted from a quote by Antoine de Saint-Exupery

I think rape is worse than murder. One can still respect oneself while they're being murdered, even if it is a horrific experience; rape victims are most often horribly ashamed even though they've done nothing wrong.

Context is kind of important... People laugh at murder jokes in the right context; actually, people laugh at rape jokes if they're done in the right context (you wouldn't make them in polite company, but you've definitely heard them when you're with your friends). But from what I've heard about the gameplay in RapeLay, it's completely disrespectful.
Indeed, I don't know how many iterations of 'dropped the soap' I've heard, a lot though.

As for the game...people seem to be having a hard time divorcing the game from reality. And yet when asked say that they know it isn't real. And, to be fair, I'd be against the things too if, you know, real women were involved, which, as it stands is not the case. (VO work aside.)

Depictions don't have feelings. A picture can't cry. You are harming no-one by making use of such things, bar arguably yourself.