Oh for the...Natal is going to be about as earth shattering as the old virtual reality sims of the late 80's, not sure what molyneux is after by brown nosing, but it's getting annoying.
Peter Molyneux: Natal Bigger Than The Mouse
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
Maybe that's why we hear about him all the time... maybe it's because of his charisma... lolpaketep said:
Come on, everyone. I think you're missing the point. If I remember correctly, Project Natal ended up higher on the Times Best Inventions of 2009 than the cervical cancer vaccine. While this seems ridiculous, they didn't put it there because they're big games enthusiasts, it's there because they saw the potential of having a user control the interface directly without having to use any kind of input device. It is a little hard to fathom, but the point that I think Peter Molyneux's trying to make is that it's a whole new way to interact with a computer. Irrelevant of whether or not Natal succeeds in gaming is irrelevant, what matters is more that having no mouse, keyboard or controller opens up new possibilities in regards not only to what games are, but generally the way we interact with technology.
To be honest, I think Natal will be a fairly clunky implementation of these ideas, but I can still see the point he's trying to make. Peter also says, in his polite PR way, that, initially at least, games will miss the point of Natal completely, which I firmly agree with. Except maybe for Milo, I imagine a lot of early products will be summed up as "mini game compilation" or "would work better with a controller" because, as he said, if you're expecting a first person shooter, you're not thinking broadly enough. Game designers need a new mindset in developing titles for this technology if it's going to succeed.
Say what you will about Mr. Molyneux and his hyperbole, but dismissing his point just because he's the one who made it, or because he's talking about Natal, is just ignorance.
To be honest, I think Natal will be a fairly clunky implementation of these ideas, but I can still see the point he's trying to make. Peter also says, in his polite PR way, that, initially at least, games will miss the point of Natal completely, which I firmly agree with. Except maybe for Milo, I imagine a lot of early products will be summed up as "mini game compilation" or "would work better with a controller" because, as he said, if you're expecting a first person shooter, you're not thinking broadly enough. Game designers need a new mindset in developing titles for this technology if it's going to succeed.
Say what you will about Mr. Molyneux and his hyperbole, but dismissing his point just because he's the one who made it, or because he's talking about Natal, is just ignorance.
Ah, Molly. Will you ever stop over-hyping?
To a certain extent, though, I have to agree with him. Or at least - what he says makes a decent amount of sense to me.
I'm not saying that Natal will fuel game design in the same way that the mouse did 30-odd years ago, I'm saying that Natal's true relevance to video games will be decided in the years that follow. I can't really see anyone creating anything I truly want to play with Natal as of yet because I'm unsure as to what could really be done with it.
And, yes, the Eyetoy came out a few years back. What failed with the Eyetoy was the fact that it wasn't particularly good. With the modern focus - in the mainstream - on motion-control, the only reason why Natal should follow the Eyetoy is if it's not marketed well or it just doesn't accurately follow your movements.
Natal does have a lot of potential, and though - as with everything Molly says - I take this article with a spade or two of salt, the man does have a point.
To a certain extent, though, I have to agree with him. Or at least - what he says makes a decent amount of sense to me.
I'm not saying that Natal will fuel game design in the same way that the mouse did 30-odd years ago, I'm saying that Natal's true relevance to video games will be decided in the years that follow. I can't really see anyone creating anything I truly want to play with Natal as of yet because I'm unsure as to what could really be done with it.
And, yes, the Eyetoy came out a few years back. What failed with the Eyetoy was the fact that it wasn't particularly good. With the modern focus - in the mainstream - on motion-control, the only reason why Natal should follow the Eyetoy is if it's not marketed well or it just doesn't accurately follow your movements.
Natal does have a lot of potential, and though - as with everything Molly says - I take this article with a spade or two of salt, the man does have a point.
True, Time Crisis FTW. Fond memories of the 90's playing Time Crisis on the good old PSX, and later Time Crisis 2 & 3 on PS2.NamesAreHardToPick said:
I really suggest you give MOH: Airborne a go if you have a PS3 or access to one, the tilt controls seems awkward at first like any new controls scheme, but it is naturalistic, tilt left to lean left and forward/back to raise head down/up. And there is just about enough visual feedback as you
It's really things like this which the Six-axis is so suited for, the tilt/peek is not that precise but it doesn't need to be precise, unlike many games which control steering with six-axis, which just doesn't work.
The thing is if the left stick is for movement, and the right is for aiming, well, you can't have a third stick for leaning as well! The tilt-lean just works so well, I really wish more games would use it and here's hoping we'll see it again in MOH:2010
Personally, I didn't like how MGS3 did it, it made what should be a simple task such as pointing a gun require a light touch. But for the MOH:A example, it makes sense to make a more precise sniper shot you need more precise rigger control. Another advantage of using analogue triggers over pressure sensitive buttons is it's hard to gauge the feedback with just pressure sensitive. With analogue triggers it's much easier (especially with PS3's snap-on concave triggers) to lever the trigger precisely as much as you want, not just a factor of force applied but also how far down the trigger (like a fulcrum) the pressure is applied.
Not sure your Analogue stick thing would work, as the analogue stick works more like a vector. Vectors are hard to explain but imagine pushing the stick in the direction of a wall would be like leaning against it, the wall pushes back as much as you push into it (complex physics, brrr). Being unable to move the stick to the right... well, that would be like your legs had gone numb and you physically couldn't apply the force.
The controls are supposed to tell the game what you WANT to do, if you can't pass through something the game physics says you should still be allowed to apply force against it. However, the haptic feedback could be useful to inform the player about what the world can allow. So perhaps tighten up the controls as they get more tired or change the feel of the trigger: short and crisp for a rifle, long and springy for a machine gun.
What if it's replaced by full VR?BigFurry said:
OT: Motion controllers are nothing I want any part of. If I wanted to do all the motions of a sport to play it, I would go outside to play it. If I wanted to experience realistic fighting, I would be a boxer, etc.
If hes excited, then so am I. I see nothing wrong with the hype hes giving it if he is creating something awesome to use Natal with.
Still no. I have never and will never feel the urge to mimic in-game movements with some sort of motion/gesture detecting apparatus. I play video games so I can sit in one place for hours and do something I can loosely justify as 'productive,' not so I can "realistically" play the game.RabidusUnus said:
Besides Microsoft is going to go the way of Nintendo and end up sucking the fat casual cock while the hardcore crowd is going to get left high and dry if Natal is successful.
[TLDR=Statements of personal opinion about the usage of the term 'hardcore' and the general overtone I got from the entire discussion]BigFurry said:
If you're too "Hardcore" to adjust to changing trends in your favorite hobby, I have to submit that you've lost something along the way. I do agree, there should always at least be a controller option. However, if this continues to be the trend in the market - a move toward more interaction with an environment versus input through a pad - it will be gaming. Those of us who are still joystick jockeys, or analog angels, even those who get their thrills with a mouse and keyboard... We'll just be relics of a lost genre as though we were saying fully text based games are the only true games. The 'casuals' will be the new 'hardcore' and the next breed of 'casuals' will probably be obsessed with prolonged gratification instead of instant gratification. There's still many angry little groups that think those who play games in their favorite genre that came after certain milestones are all the perpetuation of the most vile stereotypes. For instance, people who played marathon and think anyone who has touched halo are beer chugging mouth breathers who shouldn't be allowed to breathe their oxygen. Likewise, those who think the new school of 'adventure' gaming can't be labeled adventure gaming because the genre originally entailed 'point and click adventure' gaming (to their dismay, I'd say the text based adventure games predated those a little bit, and before then story-telling around the campfire with a leader of some sort, and the entire debate could be nixed by just mentioning these are different genres within a sub genre in the first place) and that those who sully themselves with games like the escape the room series are worse than caterpillars on their shoes because it's not day of the tentacle. There's all sorts.
[/TLDR]
Not to troll you or anything mate, it's just that you're kind of labeling an intangible object as though you were holding it in your hands... Take it for what it is, a gimmick that could very easily change the face of modern gaming given appropriate applications. Hell, your mindset isn't exactly unpopular. I'm actually of the same school of thought that if something jogs my system with anything but adrenaline, it's stopped being recreation and has become work... However, I haven't been a stranger to new technologies (least of all DDR because our college campus is COVERED in the damn machines) and am indeed hoping something that at the very least can be called novel comes from this technology, if not something that changes the way I use my computer/consoles forever.
(As for the imminent responses of 'lol fatty cant do werk son', I blame high school sports. Coaches can ruin great things. To this day I don't play even casual 'sports' with my friends because of the bullshit I went through in school. The work wasn't bad, it was the attitude. I'm just glad we didn't have competitive gaming teams, or I may of slit my wrists to spare myself the corruption of a truly brilliant activity... Oh, I'm also one of those 'games are art' guys. Maybe that influences my opinions.)
Also, as an addendum... It's come to my attention that I come off as an ornery and trollish person on these forums, and I do truly apologize. I just have the sort of mind that makes me latch onto things that make me think. If I respond to your post, odds are good it made me think in a way that I just couldn't process without writing down my thoughts in a structured way. I then pass it on in response to the post that triggered the thoughts, mostly out of courtesy and curiosity. Unless I flat out tell you I think you're stupid or something, (Which this post shouldn't be doing) please do not become offended! ^_^ I am simply trying to converse openly about my thoughts versus your thoughts. Debate, if you will. It's not easy to do, and you should consider this an open invitation to flat out ignore what I've said if you found it offensive, because I didn't mean it to be... Just a minor discussion piece, about the evolution of gaming as a recreation.
You provide a very good argument and I take no offense to your post. While a debate seems a little harsh I am open to friendly discussion. Now call me old fashioned if you will, although my age alone seems a little young for this label (6 days from 18). I cannot see how this can turn into any practical form of gaming that could provide long term enjoyment to the market. When I label 'casual' gamers I speak more of the type who prefer short term gratification like party games or games that promote more "real world" interaction like playing with a group of friends at one's house. To me Natal is doomed to go this route, if I remember correctly the Wii was seen to have great potential for the FPS genre but it ultimately failed. Don't get me wrong I don't wish failure upon the Natal but in certain areas I don't see it being a big success. I'm trying not to be to skeptical about it before it hits store shelves I don't want to spend more money on something that will end up taking more space like my Wii.T3chn0s1s said:
Regardless on my opinion of it I have to admit it is a very impressive piece of technology. In the end I think Microsoft has some great potential in their hands if they play their cards right. I just don't want to give up my controller anytime soon.