Piracy, Not Consoles, Killed the PC Exclusive

Treblaine

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SurfinTaxt said:
Treblaine said:
You have to actually ask about Valve's PC exclusive? Dota 2, last month. Also Alien Swarm. Team Fortress 2, not just to move to free-to-play but ALL the extra content being PC exclusive.

Do you have ANY clue what you are talking about? How do you form such breathless opinions about what you clearly know so little about.

PC was last pushed to its limits with Crysis 2 (2011) running the most advanced DX11 rendering and then Battlefield 3 also pushing the limits to the point where console gamers have complained about how much inferior their version is by comparison. Do you have ANY clue about PC gaming??!?!?

And what the hell is a "triple A" exclusive in actual definitive terms? That is 100% subjective. Hawken is a Triple-A exclusive by any standards. How about Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, Star Wars The Old Republic? The smallest speculation about these games have gotten headline stories on this site, is that not Triple-A worthy?

And what Triple-A exclusives have we got to look forward to on Xbox 360 by comparison? Halo 4?

Please, terms like "Triple-A" are credit ratings. Not game categories.
Ummmm time to reel it in buddy. You've got Dota 2 sure, but then you go Alien swarm and team fortress 2 which was released last decade. You're reallly stretching there.

And wow, if Crysis 2 was pushing the limit, then I have to say that Im wholeheartedly unimpressed. Also not pc exclusive.

And triple A means BIG GAME, the Starcrafts, the Diablo's (3 is going to consoles), the old republics, sure, I never said PC has none of them, just that they dont have even close to more exclusives than consoles combined as you so hastily claimed.

I know people who react this way, often they are super defensive of the 5000 dollar rig they bought 6 months ago that isnt being pushed in any really impressive way.
You're very odd person to converse with. You tell me to "reel it in" then immediately concede your main point on a lack of Valve's PC exclusives. Yet you think it's somehow relevant to talk about "last decade" when that was only 25 months ago. Anyway, Alien Swarm was 2010 (so THIS decade if you know how counting works*) and so many of the PC-exclusive updates for TF2 have been in this decade.

Crysis 2 pushed the limits whether exclusive or not. And if you are so unimpressed by the graphics then don't look at the lame console version for examples of graphical fidelity.

No evidence Diablo 3 is actually going to consoles, they're just looking at it. It certainly isn't suited to consoles unless they allow mouse + keyboard support. Similar game of torchlight was poorly received on Console (gamepad controls being an issue) and the sequel has no console plans:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-11-blizzard-dilutes-diablo-3-console-confirmation

Also WHAT BIG EXCLUSIVES does Xbox 360 have? Halo 4?!?? Does anyone care about that with Bungie gone? That Fable Kinect game? Really?

Tubez has already shown you that pic that you should have seen already if you'd read this thread before posting, something you should KNOW ANYWAY before speaking with such conclusive declarations, quite how many exclusives are going for the PC in comparison with the other consoles.

You can't go on about "triple A means BIG GAME". WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Big in what way? Budget? OOoohhh Ho Ho! PC games have got that!
 

Arakasi

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The more people pirate the more I hear about piracy.
The more I hear about piracy the less I want to hear about piracy.
The less I want to hear about piracy the less I know about piracy.
The less I know about priacy the less I pirate.
 

maninahat

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Hisher said:
Sober Thal said:
Hisher said:
Angry PC gamer here to say that a pirated game is not the equivalent of a lost sale.
Yeah, it's a product being used that wasn't paid for.
True but there is a good chance it wouldn't have been purchased in the first place.
But that doesn't have any bearing on the people who would have bought the game, but don't because of the piracy option.
 

Canadish

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Wait wait wait....

An Iron Lore guy is behind This Kingdoms game?

Well, at least we can safely write the game off as being crap regardless.

(As if being published by EA wasn't a tip off anyway...)
 

ablac

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I call bull because people shouldnt have to pay for games. I mean cmon games are culture which means we have a right to them the same way we have a right to see movies for free and listen to music without paying the swine who make it. Also there are plenty of poor people who want to play games but cant afford them so what harm are they doing eh i mean those who pirate have to pay for their gaming rigs so how can they be expected to then pay for games? When publishers try to fight piracy they simply encourage piracy as games with no DRM whatsoever do not get pirated. Fact. On that note many games are made by people who are rich as a result of selling millions of games, therefore we are justified to not pay because they are rich and all rich people are evil, and why should we pay for games i mean other people clearly have paid for the game so see it doesnt hurt the industry. When i pirate i tell all my friends to go and buy the game. Nah just kidding i do the sensible thing and tell them where i pirated it from so they can all have it for free as well. And i do buy games. I saw a game i pirated on sale for 90% off so i bought it, see piracy leads to sales and it was great playing it on release date. Once i deemed a game worthy of my money after playing for onyl a short amount of time so i bought it. Im so good. If the game had been worse then i would have simply not paid because it want worth my money. Just my time. I mean piracy can happen on consoles to so that means it all happens on consoles where they can afford it.
 

Atmos Duality

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It's that kind of attitude that drives investors and creators away.
Sadly, that's where the money comes from for big-budget titles: investors.

So whether Ian Frazier's assessment is correct or not in reality actually doesn't matter; so long as investors continue to believe that PC-exclusives cannot turn a profit (which isn't true) this trend will remain and build upon itself.

A rather unfortunate self-fulfilling prophecy.
 

MrTub

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SurfinTaxt said:
Tubez said:
SurfinTaxt said:
Tubez said:
almost every one of those are mmos or rts, and the 80% of them are most definitely NOT triple A. Nice try, but this strengthens my argument, not yours
And Ryse, Haunt, Steel battalion, American nightmare is triple A games?

So if you compare, 20% of the pc only games are triple A (According to you) which means 51/5=10,2 games are triple A for pc, and on xbox you got one triple A game which means that you actually get 9.2 more triple A games for pc. So I do not understand how it strengthen your argument.

And may I ask why mmo & rts doesnt count?
MMO and RTS dont count because Ive already conceded from the very beginning that these are healthy markets on pc, mainly because the genre limits them from being on consoles. But besides those two genres, which I excluded before if you actually read my post, the triple a exclusives are just not a thriving market on pc. Btw, the list you spoilerd should be PC exclusive vs console exclusive, not ps3, xbox exclusive, its just being disngenuous. Those arent the only 2 consoles in the world. And besides, its only a list of 2012. The year only just started, there will be many more games announced from now to the summer. I dont think i saw resident evil 6 on there. YEa just checked, really? You dont have the biggest game of the year on there, then I just cant trust this list at all
Resident evil 6 is not a console exclusive. So why should it be on the list?

And if you are going to discount any RTS &MMO then you should exclude any games that most people prefer to play on xbox 360/ps3/wii
 

Nurb

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Dec 9, 2008
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Excecs like to baaw about "potential sales", except when a PC game breaks sales records, and then there's the fact PC gaming profits have RISEN over the past 2 years, but then when a game doesn't sell as well as they think it should because it's a bad game, the DRM is intrusive, Digital distribution software requirements (ORIGIN), and generally treating paying customers like thieves, they're back to "PIRACY KILLING US OOOHHH THE POOR SHAREHOLDERS ARE SAD AND BOBBY KOTICK CANT GET HIS GOLD ENEMA THIS WEEK".

For all the hot air about piracy and used games, people in the industry are remarkably prone to telling people to "fuck off if you don't like it", as though the industry doesn't mind losing a customer anywhere near as much as they mind not being able to force people to give them money.

We're supposed to have sympathy for them too, even though by their own arguments they deserve to die off. Piracy and used games are killing the market, but the response to any legitimate complaint is to stop buying games if we don't like it. If people act rationally and refuse to throw the baby out with the bathwater and download a game or buy used, they're killing them. What would they rather have gamers do? "Talk with our wallets" and not play the games at all, and certainly don't buy them. Which would also kill the industry, but that's somehow the more moral solution. Either way the industry is basically daring gamers to kill it.

Most people are talking with their wallets, which is why the market is shrinking. And what message does the industry take from that? That they should do something different? Nope. The message is that they should simply move to consoles due to a shrinking market they surely can't be responsible for (consles also have rampant piracy problems as well). So even when gamers do follow the "moral" way, nothing changes. So the decision is between "No Games, Dead Industry" and "Used/Pirated Games, Dead Industry".

In other words, if the industry isn't going to get the message no matter what we do and is going to die either way, why should we care? Should gamers feel sorry for Ken Levine not getting paid for a good game? Nope. The industry doesn't care about screwomg us over in the name of unproven piracy damages and losses to a used market, so I don't see why we should care if a few decent developers get crushed in the name of taking down an industry that could not possibly care less about doing proper business with us.

In the end, I don?t think piracy magically exists on its own as a manifestation of mankind's nature or any such tripe. I think it's largely created by a failure to adequately meet demand. If anything, piracy indicates a continued interest in games. That's the real problem to tackle, but again people seem more interested in using copy protection or DRM to try and force the markets to do things their way, even though everyone will admit that it?s only a matter of time before any DRM or CP is cracked and useless. You can ***** all you want about used games, or cracked games to remove online leashes (cry me a river, by the way), or you can shut up and actually deal with the market situations. It's called business. Did no one go over this in those University of Phoenix Online classes from which the industry?s CEOs got their degrees?
 

Treblaine

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SurfinTaxt said:
Tubez said:
almost every one of those are mmos or rts, and the 80% of them are most definitely NOT triple A. Nice try, but this strengthens my argument, not yours
16 of the PC games on that incomplete list are neither MMO nor any sort of strategy.

While you are excluding games, why not exclude J-RPGs from the list as well? And what about crappy Kinect games? Hmm? IS Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time the Triple-A game of 2012? Mario Party 9?

PS: you've got balls to arbitrarily dismiss an argument then say that strengthens your own. Not very big balls, but balls all the same.
 

Chairman Miaow

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SurfinTaxt said:
Tubez said:
SurfinTaxt said:
Tubez said:
almost every one of those are mmos or rts, and the 80% of them are most definitely NOT triple A. Nice try, but this strengthens my argument, not yours
And Ryse, Haunt, Steel battalion, American nightmare is triple A games?

So if you compare, 20% of the pc only games are triple A (According to you) which means 51/5=10,2 games are triple A for pc, and on xbox you got one triple A game which means that you actually get 9.2 more triple A games for pc. So I do not understand how it strengthen your argument.

And may I ask why mmo & rts doesnt count?
MMO and RTS dont count because Ive already conceded from the very beginning that these are healthy markets on pc, mainly because the genre limits them from being on consoles. But besides those two genres, which I excluded before if you actually read my post, the triple a exclusives are just not a thriving market on pc. Btw, the list you spoilerd should be PC exclusive vs console exclusive, not ps3, xbox exclusive, its just being disngenuous. Those arent the only 2 consoles in the world. And besides, its only a list of 2012. The year only just started, there will be many more games announced from now to the summer. I dont think i saw resident evil 6 on there. YEa just checked, really? You dont have the biggest game of the year on there, then I just cant trust this list at all
You can't ignore evidence just because it proves you wrong....
 

Wolfram23

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I've been happily gaming on my PC I bought just under 2 years ago. I literally have more games than I can play on it right now, and there is a massively massive amount of games I will never play on it, even new ones.

I really couldn't care less about exclusives. Seriously. I don't care.

Know what I do care about? Quality products. Kingdom of Amalur is not a quality product. If devs first of all have a good game, even a direct port with the same crap graphics as consoles have would do alright, and maybe modders could fix it. If they have a good game and put the time in to make it a little more graphically intense on PC, they'd have a big winner.

KoA:R is not a very good game, but it's also quite clearly not a game to play on PC. I mean I'm not even talking about how I'd like higher res textures and in game AA and Direct X 11. No, you know what I would have appreciated? A way to increase the fucking draw distance. Seriously. Easiest fucking thing in the world to tweak, and yet I'm running around using 1 of my 2 GPUs and it is only working about 30-40% capacity, and grass is popping into existence a few meters away from my character. So much fail.

Anyway, as for piracy "ruining" PC, well, I already mentioned there's more PC games than I could ever play. On top of that, though, I think a developer would be pretty dumb to not make games multiplatform. I mean you can sell a few million on PC if the game is quite well done (BF3, Skyrim, etc) but you can sell probably double on consoles. It makes sense to go multiplatform, and it also makes sense to not ignore any platform.

I would also just like to say that pirating probably isn't as bad as you think in 1st world countries. The problem with looking at "most pirated game" charts is that they aren't telling you that 430 million downloads were in India and China, leaving only 5% to North America (made up figures of course). Perhaps there's a lot more at play there than "only douchebags pirate"?

Besides, the more I think about it, the more trouble I have determining the difference between renting a game from a video store or library and pirating it - unless you pirate it and play it for a month(s) and beat it. But if you pirate a game and play over a weekend and decide "this game is great!" and go purchase it, or you decide "this game sucks!" and you delete, then what is the difference? The publishers don't see a dime either way. I think the hardest part to rationalize is that people, generally, are jerks and don't bother to buy it if they enjoy it. However, plenty do. Piracy can be good, can be bad. Trying to force so much blame on it without being able to break down it's causes and effects doesn't do anyone any good.
 

Treblaine

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SurfinTaxt said:
Tubez said:
SurfinTaxt said:
Tubez said:
almost every one of those are mmos or rts, and the 80% of them are most definitely NOT triple A. Nice try, but this strengthens my argument, not yours
And Ryse, Haunt, Steel battalion, American nightmare is triple A games?

So if you compare, 20% of the pc only games are triple A (According to you) which means 51/5=10,2 games are triple A for pc, and on xbox you got one triple A game which means that you actually get 9.2 more triple A games for pc. So I do not understand how it strengthen your argument.

And may I ask why mmo & rts doesnt count?
MMO and RTS dont count because Ive already conceded from the very beginning that these are healthy markets on pc, mainly because the genre limits them from being on consoles.
Really? Well if that is the case then we can exclude jRPGs and motion gimmick games.

Btw, the list you spoilerd should be PC exclusive vs console exclusive, not ps3, xbox exclusive, its just being disngenuous. Those arent the only 2 consoles in the world.
Well that is fair, three consoles gang up on PC. OR do you mean to include PSP, DS, 3DS as well? God, you need to stack every odd don't you. It's it enough that you exclude a load of the most popular genres from PC. You wouldn't be charitable enough to include android/apple app marketpalce on PC side?

And besides, its only a list of 2012. The year only just started, there will be many more games announced from now to the summer.
But that's a zero-sum difference, it will affect all platforms equally. No advantage/disadvantage to any.
 

CardinalPiggles

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Pirates - Ruining things for everyone else since the dawn of media.

I will say that at times it can be not as bad as Publishers make it out to be, but the sort of people that do pirate games usually take it too far and just never pay for games.

Hisher said:
Angry PC gamer here to say that a pirated game is not the equivalent of a lost sale.
Doesn't mean it's not damaging to a game developing business.
 

MrTub

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SurfinTaxt said:
Tubez said:
SurfinTaxt said:
Tubez said:
SurfinTaxt said:
Tubez said:
almost every one of those are mmos or rts, and the 80% of them are most definitely NOT triple A. Nice try, but this strengthens my argument, not yours
And Ryse, Haunt, Steel battalion, American nightmare is triple A games?

So if you compare, 20% of the pc only games are triple A (According to you) which means 51/5=10,2 games are triple A for pc, and on xbox you got one triple A game which means that you actually get 9.2 more triple A games for pc. So I do not understand how it strengthen your argument.

And may I ask why mmo & rts doesnt count?
MMO and RTS dont count because Ive already conceded from the very beginning that these are healthy markets on pc, mainly because the genre limits them from being on consoles. But besides those two genres, which I excluded before if you actually read my post, the triple a exclusives are just not a thriving market on pc. Btw, the list you spoilerd should be PC exclusive vs console exclusive, not ps3, xbox exclusive, its just being disngenuous. Those arent the only 2 consoles in the world. And besides, its only a list of 2012. The year only just started, there will be many more games announced from now to the summer. I dont think i saw resident evil 6 on there. YEa just checked, really? You dont have the biggest game of the year on there, then I just cant trust this list at all
Resident evil 6 is not a console exclusive. So why should it be on the list?

And if you are going to discount any RTS &MMO then you should exclude any games that most people prefer to play on xbox 360/ps3/wii
So it isnt. THat baffles me but whatever, youll have to use a gamepad anyway.

I think rts and mmos will thrive on pc, but they will be severely gimped by piracy no doubt. If they were more viable on consoles, then mmo rts would leaave pc in droves but thats not reality, theyre stuck on pc for the time being, where they do relatively well as a genre.
Are you seriously saying that MMO are being gimped by piracy?

Really?
...



Sure they are some people that play on private servers but I would hardly say that a very very small minority is gimping a genre as huge as mmo. And you know what? if every game developer decided to switch to console then a lot of people pirating stuff would switch to console as well and in the end it would have the same effect. Expect now you would have a lot people downloading leaked games 2-4 weeks in advance instead of pirating it on the same day it comes out, since generally speaking all major xbox 360 games gets leaked 2-4 weeks in advance.