[Politics] Nazis Attack LGBT Pride Parade

[Saelune]

.You are defending Nazis. That is a fact.

The people I 'demonize' are Nazis. I 'demonize' them because I am stating facts about them, and the facts are Nazis are like demons, evil, murderous bigoted monsters. If you cant understand that, that's your failing.


If you want me to not think you're just like all the others who try to condemn me, maybe stop repeating their tired lines. If opposing genocide is wrong, then I dont want to be right.

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You are wrong. That is a fact.

You are abrasive. That is a fact.

You are flooding the forums with your nonsense. That is a fact.

See here, I can also make facts.

I don't repeat lines other than my own. I don't care if you clump me with 'all the others'. I'm trying to have a conversation with you and I'm failing miserably.
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You may joke, but the senses that getting red-pilled gives them are as addictive as opium (metaphorically speaking).

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I made a mistake of visiting pol a few times. Woah. What an experience, it's like driving through a safari full of jackals and I'm a fresh piece of meat. You observe with curiosity their strange mating rituals and do not get out of your vehicle...

I do keep replying to you, don't I? If you want to have your so-called discussion, then have it, but I will not accept any defense of straight up Nazis.

You keep telling me to compromise while not compromising yourself. You're more than allowed to compromise your own view to reach out to me. I have no desire to appease my abusers though.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Doesn't America already have a bunch of political groups they banned because they were deemed too dangerous? What makes the actual Nazi's not included there?

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Doesn't America already have a bunch of political groups they banned because they were deemed too dangerous? What makes the actual Nazi's not included there?

Because they have too much political clout to allow that to happen. That is exactly why this needs to be banned, they legitimized a terrorist group and their ideals.

 

[tstorm823]

Doesn't America already have a bunch of political groups they banned because they were deemed too dangerous? What makes the actual Nazi's not included there?

Not unless the political group was convicted of conspiracy to commit crimes. The right to peaceably assemble is also in the 1st amendment.

That being said, this group was not peaceably assembling, which is why the police physically blocked them from entering the area the pride event was taking place in and kept them surrounded (under threat of arrest if they broke the law) while they walked around the periphery and eventually left having never actually made it onto event grounds.

Nobody should be defending the Nazis, but people should be defending the police. To answer a question from the OP, it seems the nazis brought their own flags to desecrate [https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2019/06/10/detroit-chief-nazis-wanted-charlottesville-no-2-detroit-gay-pride-event/1410945001/] and were informed they'd be arrested for setting them on fire. If that exchange is true, I'm pretty confident the guy was even just play-acting peeing on the Israeli flag cause otherwise there'd be a public urination citation.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Doesn't America already have a bunch of political groups they banned because they were deemed too dangerous? What makes the actual Nazi's not included there?

Not unless the political group was convicted of conspiracy to commit crimes. The right to peaceably assemble is also in the 1st amendment.

That being said, this group was not peaceably assembling, which is why the police physically blocked them from entering the area the pride event was taking place in and kept them surrounded (under threat of arrest if they broke the law) while they walked around the periphery and eventually left having never actually made it onto event grounds.

Nobody should be defending the Nazis, but people should be defending the police. To answer a question from the OP, it seems the nazis brought their own flags to desecrate [https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2019/06/10/detroit-chief-nazis-wanted-charlottesville-no-2-detroit-gay-pride-event/1410945001/] and were informed they'd be arrested for setting them on fire. If that exchange is true, I'm pretty confident the guy was even just play-acting peeing on the Israeli flag cause otherwise there'd be a public urination citation.

What about the photos that have been circulating of the person they pushed to the ground with flags?

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Doesn't America already have a bunch of political groups they banned because they were deemed too dangerous? What makes the actual Nazi's not included there?

Friends in High Places [https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/346552-trump-cut-funds-to-fight-anti-right-wing-violence].

According to the Anti-Defamation League, between 2009 and 2018, white supremacist and far-right extremists were responsible for 73 percent of extremist murders in the U.S. Yet the distinct and deadly threat of white supremacist violence is now unnamed and merely folded into the too-broad "racially motivated extremism" category. That category folds in "black identity extremism" ? an FBI category conjured in 2017 to make the unsubstantiated claim that black organizers fighting against racist police executions were a national security threat.

The new nomenclature reflects the Trump administration?s ideological commitment to enabling white supremacists. But the new classifications are more than semantic: They render it impossible for the public, or even elected officials, to know whether the FBI is dedicating resources to investigating the very real threat of white supremacist terror or if those resources are going toward the harassment of Black Lives Matter and civil rights activists. Only the former use of government time and money would be justified, but both cases would fall under "racially motivated extremism."

Earlier this month, the FBI?s inability to distinguish white supremacist, far-right terror cases in its data was made clear during a House Homeland Security Committee hearing. During his testimony, McGarrity, the same FBI official questioned this week by Tlaib, was asked by House members how many current domestic investigations were targeting white supremacists. He couldn?t answer with any specificity, save to say that 50 percent of current investigations related to the "racially motivated" category and that the "majority" of these involved white supremacists. Another 40 percent of investigations, he said, related to "anti-government" extremism, without delineating whether targets were right- or left-wing groups. So, while we can know that 90 percent of current domestic FBI investigations involve supposedly "racially motivated" or "anti-government" cases, we can?t know to what extent the agency is abusing these ?terror? categories to persecute anti-racist activism and civil rights struggle ? as federal law enforcement has historically done.

(Source [https://theintercept.com/2019/06/08/white-supremacist-domestic-terrorism-fbi-justice/])

You can't ban a group that you can't even legally define.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Doesn't America already have a bunch of political groups they banned because they were deemed too dangerous? What makes the actual Nazi's not included there?

Friends in High Places [https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/346552-trump-cut-funds-to-fight-anti-right-wing-violence].

According to the Anti-Defamation League, between 2009 and 2018, white supremacist and far-right extremists were responsible for 73 percent of extremist murders in the U.S. Yet the distinct and deadly threat of white supremacist violence is now unnamed and merely folded into the too-broad "racially motivated extremism" category. That category folds in "black identity extremism" ? an FBI category conjured in 2017 to make the unsubstantiated claim that black organizers fighting against racist police executions were a national security threat.

The new nomenclature reflects the Trump administration?s ideological commitment to enabling white supremacists. But the new classifications are more than semantic: They render it impossible for the public, or even elected officials, to know whether the FBI is dedicating resources to investigating the very real threat of white supremacist terror or if those resources are going toward the harassment of Black Lives Matter and civil rights activists. Only the former use of government time and money would be justified, but both cases would fall under "racially motivated extremism."

Earlier this month, the FBI?s inability to distinguish white supremacist, far-right terror cases in its data was made clear during a House Homeland Security Committee hearing. During his testimony, McGarrity, the same FBI official questioned this week by Tlaib, was asked by House members how many current domestic investigations were targeting white supremacists. He couldn?t answer with any specificity, save to say that 50 percent of current investigations related to the "racially motivated" category and that the "majority" of these involved white supremacists. Another 40 percent of investigations, he said, related to "anti-government" extremism, without delineating whether targets were right- or left-wing groups. So, while we can know that 90 percent of current domestic FBI investigations involve supposedly "racially motivated" or "anti-government" cases, we can?t know to what extent the agency is abusing these ?terror? categories to persecute anti-racist activism and civil rights struggle ? as federal law enforcement has historically done.

(Source [https://theintercept.com/2019/06/08/white-supremacist-domestic-terrorism-fbi-justice/])

You can't ban a group that you can't even legally define.

They can legally define it just as other nations already have. Promoting the removal of citizens from their own nation is in itself inciting violence and should be treated as such. They should treat Nazis and other white nationalists groups the same way they treat any other terrorist and go after their websites, bank accounts and ability to spread propaganda. Trump trying to bury it doesn't mean it is actually harder to address, it just means he doesn't want anyone to address it because without the alt right he would have never made the primaries.

 

[Trunkage]

Wow. Of all the hills one might choose to die on, he chose to die on a hill defending literal Nazis.
Literal goose-stepping, swastika-wearing, Hitler-saluting Nazis.

You couldn't make this shit up if you tried.

Yeah, even I'm willing to say that people wearing swastika armbands and calling themselves the "National Socialist Movement" are probably Nazis. Like, legitimate actual Nazis, and not just people on the right. Probably.

But Lulz?!

 

[Trunkage]

You know what I find funny. That we are waiting for Nazis to kill someone to then do something about them.

No one knew about the holocaust until pretty much after WW2 was over. They thought it was a similar situation to WW1, that Nazi Germany wasn't really being bad guys like we see them today. Not many in German army knew either.

American went to fight in Europe over a much less threshold than Holocaust. Yet, that seems to be the bar for today. Could we have a lower bar than genocide for dealing with hate groups?

Also, it funny how that people predicted this if Trump got in... oh the lulz

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

They can legally define it just as other nations already have. Promoting the removal of citizens from their own nation is in itself inciting violence and should be treated as such. They should treat Nazis and other white nationalists groups the same way they treat any other terrorist and go after their websites, bank accounts and ability to spread propaganda. Trump trying to bury it doesn't mean it is actually harder to address, it just means he doesn't want anyone to address it because without the alt right he would have never made the primaries.

I realize the point. We had a pretty decent definition before. We had funding to track, monitor, and deal with domestic threats. And now, we have the fact that 73 percent of all extremist murders were done by alt-right and white nationalists, so a history of violence that stems from rhetoric spewed by these people.

And we have powers that be moving laws to protect these people's right to speak, and yet place 'Black Extremist Groups' right on the terrorist watch list because they could possibly do the things that White nationalists and Alt Right extremists are doing now.

If this isn't considered America's lowpoint in modern history, I shudder to think what could be possibly coming for it to lose out to.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

I do like that we've had a 5-page discussion and a notable user was banned over this. Kind of shows how much we're tired of this shit.

To answer something that was brought up in this thread I honestly think these Neo-Nazi groups are more dangerous then groups like Isis. Because at the end of the day Isis cannot conquer us, they cannot completely control us, we are not a Nation of primarily Muslims they have little sway in the West besides invoking fear. But these racist groups have a connection with a lot of Americans and have politicians that actually agree with them even if it's in private. These Islamic terrorists could cause the worst day of your life but these racist groups could ruin the rest of people's lives.

When I see more stories about these groups it makes me worry.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I do like that we've had a 5-page discussion and a notable user was banned over this. Kind of shows how much we're tired of this shit.

To answer something that was brought up in this thread I honestly think these Neo-Nazi groups are more dangerous then groups like Isis. Because at the end of the day Isis cannot conquer us, they cannot completely control us, we are not a Nation of primarily Muslims they have little sway in the West besides invoking fear. But these racist groups have a connection with a lot of Americans and have politicians that actually agree with them even if it's in private. These Islamic terrorists could cause the worst day of your life but these racist groups could ruin the rest of people's lives.

When I see more stories about these groups it makes me worry.

This is a solid, valid point. At the end of the day, if the impossible happens, ISIS could attack our country. And we'd fight to the last citizen.

Groups like NSM can have enough representation in government to change our country, and destroy the concept forever.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

I do like that we've had a 5-page discussion and a notable user was banned over this. Kind of shows how much we're tired of this shit.

To answer something that was brought up in this thread I honestly think these Neo-Nazi groups are more dangerous then groups like Isis. Because at the end of the day Isis cannot conquer us, they cannot completely control us, we are not a Nation of primarily Muslims they have little sway in the West besides invoking fear. But these racist groups have a connection with a lot of Americans and have politicians that actually agree with them even if it's in private. These Islamic terrorists could cause the worst day of your life but these racist groups could ruin the rest of people's lives.

When I see more stories about these groups it makes me worry.

This is a solid, valid point. At the end of the day, if the impossible happens, ISIS could attack our country. And we'd fight to the last citizen.

Groups like NSM can have enough representation in government to change our country, and destroy the concept forever.

Personally, I'm sick of all the arguing and division about this when we should be standing together to face them....

But I don't think anyone would listen to me...

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

You keep telling me to compromise while not compromising yourself. You're more than allowed to compromise your own view to reach out to me. I have no desire to appease my abusers though.

You might wanna look up the context of that image real fast before posting it. Just sayin'.

 

[tstorm823]

What about the photos that have been circulating of the person they pushed to the ground with flags?

I haven't seen those, and a google search hasn't found them for me. All the information I can find says there wasn't any direct physical violence, independent of whether the source accuses the police of siding with nazis. But all these articles are probably based on rephrasing the same information to get clicks, so if you have something I don't, send it over.

I do like that we've had a 5-page discussion and a notable user was banned over this. Kind of shows how much we're tired of this shit.

To answer something that was brought up in this thread I honestly think these Neo-Nazi groups are more dangerous then groups like Isis. Because at the end of the day Isis cannot conquer us, they cannot completely control us, we are not a Nation of primarily Muslims they have little sway in the West besides invoking fear. But these racist groups have a connection with a lot of Americans and have politicians that actually agree with them even if it's in private. These Islamic terrorists could cause the worst day of your life but these racist groups could ruin the rest of people's lives.

When I see more stories about these groups it makes me worry.

Neo-nazi groups are not more dangerous than groups like ISIS. ISIS recruited hundreds of American citizens in only a few years from the other side of the planet to support a group that had declared itself the true theocratic government of earth and slaughtered thousands in an effort to assert their power. American neo-nazis have had direct access to American citizens for decades and still can't convince more than a handful to join them. ISIS got dozens of Americans to fly to Syria to fight in a war, America's largest neo-nazi group got 12 people to go to Detroit for the weekend. People love pointing to the lack of Islamic terrorism the last two years and ignore the fact that Islamic terrorism basically stopped only after we bombed the crap out of ISIS. Pointing to 2018 US terrorism as evidence than ISIS isn't as bad as white supremacists is like pointing to the 50s and saying nazis aren't dangerous. Right, because we bombed the crap out of them in the 40s.

 

[CaitSeith]

What about the photos that have been circulating of the person they pushed to the ground with flags?

I haven't seen those, and a google search hasn't found them for me.

Try logging out from Google or use incognito mode in your browser.

 

[Schadrach]

*snip*

Consider what you would want to enforce your desires. Aside from the word "communist", how different does it sound from something McCarthy would have been all over?

And why not Berkeley, CA? Because it's a land mass. There's nothing going on other than vague everpresent assumptions of who lives there and what they believe.

This was an actual gathering of what these people hate. Not in theory, but actual people and numbers. Not everyone in Berkeley, CA is a ultra-liberal, interracial couple who adopted intergendered babies from other countries with different faiths. Some people in Berkeley, CA hates those types of people as much as the NSM.

You misunderstand - I asked why not just go to Berkeley because Berkeley is kinda well known for violent counter protests against anything even vaguely right wing. Just announce plans to go there and the "enemy" would march on you and be a hair trigger from violence. It's basically the ideal site for your "Martyr Maneuver", because there are already organized groups in place to oppose you, that routinely respond with violence. You wouldn't even have to march on an otherwise peaceful event, merely show up to, I don't know, publicly preach in support of your misbegotten ideology and they'd show up looking for a fight.

 

[tstorm823]

Try logging out from Google or use incognito mode in your browser.

Opens incognito window. "Detroit pride nazis". No pushing people to the ground. "detroit pride nazis pushing people to the ground". Still nothing. "Detroit pride nazi attack". Not getting there. Switches to Bing instead. "Detroit pride nazi attack". There's some pictures of people pushing people to the ground, finally! From 2015. In Kiev. To finally find this picture you're talking about, I had to find a news article about the event that gave the picture of tearing a flag apart credit to the source, trace that picture from there back to Reuters and scan through their gallery of images to find the right one. Woof.

And all that to find pictures of a woman who got knocked over while trying to physically block them in a cross walk in front of traffic with her own body, quite obviously before they reached the police who actually stopped them. That really wasn't worth the effort.

 

[TheIronRuler]

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No one knew about the holocaust until pretty much after WW2 was over. They thought it was a similar situation to WW1, that Nazi Germany wasn't really being bad guys like we see them today. Not many in German army knew either.

American went to fight in Europe over a much less threshold than Holocaust. Yet, that seems to be the bar for today. Could we have a lower bar than genocide for dealing with hate groups?

Also, it funny how that people predicted this if Trump got in... oh the lulz

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Not true. Information regarding the holocaust was available, yet it was suppressed by war-time censored press in the UK and the US.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/holocaust-allied-forces-knew-before-concentration-camp-discovery-us-uk-soviets-secret-documents-a7688036.html

US notable newspaper, owned by American jews, "the new york times" would under-report and obscure the articles describing the atrocities against jews perpetrated by German Nazis and their allies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buried_by_the_Times

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Abandonment_of_the_Jews

By 1944 RAF warplanes flying over German airspace on their way to bombing runs flew over auschwitz regularly on several runs. They were addressed by Jewish leaders in the UK to act on the information they had and destroy the camps. UK foreign ministry convinced Churchil is was a waste of their resources.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/feb/22/germany.past

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrba%E2%80%93Wetzler_report

Two jews escaped Auschwitz and managed to flee past the Slovakian border, where they shared first-hand reports of what they've experienced. The two later published a book entailing their experiences. Their reports had been suppressed, and the Allies continued to ignore the death-camps, and the railways built connecting them to other territories outside of occupied Poland. Shortly after the publication of the reports the SS ordered the expulsion of Hungarian jewry to German death camps, where subsequently over half a million were liquidated in the gas chambers and then burned or buried in mass graves.

Like... This shit where nobody knew about the Holocaust, that's nonsense. The general population in the Allies and USSR may have not known, but it was because the news were suppressed by war-time censorship. Civilians in Axis and occupied Nazi territories knew about what was happening, but either cooperated, turned a blind eye or were unable to assist (many did help jews escape liquidation, though it was a drop in the bucket).

Germans knew about the systematic murder of jews from correspondences with Wehrmacht soldiers on the front. Those that protested were themselves put in camps for dissidents. Most were silent, or supported it.
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You keep telling me to compromise while not compromising yourself. You're more than allowed to compromise your own view to reach out to me. I have no desire to appease my abusers though.

You might wanna look up the context of that image real fast before posting it. Just sayin'.

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Hail Hydra, right? I think that was the source.
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You're a chore. Notice the only point I made you argued against was that not everybody in that camp was a Nazi, and some of them can be helped and pulled out of that environment. I continued to argue against your inability to distinguish between people, and how some people supported Trump not because they were racists or nazis but because of their situation. You continuously refuse to acknowledge it to the point it became a meme here. All Trump supporters are not Nazis. All Nazis are not trump supporters. Easy maths.

 

[Saelune]

You keep telling me to compromise while not compromising yourself. You're more than allowed to compromise your own view to reach out to me. I have no desire to appease my abusers though.

You might wanna look up the context of that image real fast before posting it. Just sayin'.

It was when notorious Nazi-Puncher Captain America was telling Spider-Man to not feel bad that people twist what Spider-Man does because Spider-Man does good, even if people like J. Jonah Jameson try to make him a villain.