[Politics] Nazis Attack LGBT Pride Parade

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

*snip*

Consider what you would want to enforce your desires. Aside from the word "communist", how different does it sound from something McCarthy would have been all over?

And why not Berkeley, CA? Because it's a land mass. There's nothing going on other than vague everpresent assumptions of who lives there and what they believe.

This was an actual gathering of what these people hate. Not in theory, but actual people and numbers. Not everyone in Berkeley, CA is a ultra-liberal, interracial couple who adopted intergendered babies from other countries with different faiths. Some people in Berkeley, CA hates those types of people as much as the NSM.

You misunderstand - I asked why not just go to Berkeley because Berkeley is kinda well known for violent counter protests against anything even vaguely right wing. Just announce plans to go there and the "enemy" would march on you and be a hair trigger from violence. It's basically the ideal site for your "Martyr Maneuver", because there are already organized groups in place to oppose you, that routinely respond with violence. You wouldn't even have to march on an otherwise peaceful event, merely show up to, I don't know, publicly preach in support of your misbegotten ideology and they'd show up looking for a fight.

I have considered enforcement, They have been enforcing not shouting fire in a theater since 1919 and the fighting words doctrine since the 1940's in the US and this would be no different than enforcing any other laws we have in the US. In the US they have been seizing bank accounts of criminals for a very long time now, this would be no different.

The word " communist" has nothing to do with the enforcement of the laws, "communist" means to share property, and has nothing to do with the enforcement of the law. DO you think that the US arresting members of ISIS and Alqueda and seizing their bank accounts is communist or are they ensuring the " general welfare of the people". You should keep in mind that the general welfare of non white citizens in the US is included in that now. White Nationalists have carried out numerous terror attacks on US soil, far more than any other terrorist ideology combined. They have been enabling them entirely too long and this needs to finally cease. They should not be given special exemption simply because they are white. They are terrorists and should be treated as such.

 

[Saelune]

Then I don't have a choice in hating Nazis and thus am immune to repercussions. *shrug*

What even?

There is always a choice, the good ones just suck to do sometimes, but throwing your Jewish neighbors under the bus was the wrong choice.

You know there was a shitload more to the German Army than hunting Juden, right? Good chunk of that was being fed to the grinder on the Eastern front against other dudes being fed to the grinder because Stalin was a shithead.

Part of the choice was not letting Hitler come to power. Hitler made no secret of his bigotry, his rise to power relied on it. He was supported BECAUSE he was bigoted.

So we'll just throw the manipulation and false flags and general fuckery in the trash and say every German citizen was responsible. Great. Are you responsible for Trump?

Could always surrender to the allies instead of ya know, shooting them.

Guess what surrender or desertion got you? Sounds so simple, but it isn't.

Well you should dislike him now.

Eh.

Maybe I was wrong in thinking you directly called him a friend, but you have defended him repeatedly, and turns out you were wrong.

Wrong on what? Pretty sure he's not a Nazi. If he is, don't care. Frankly I've stopped caring about most things a long time ago.

No, you intentionally refused to list your political views and instead sent me PMs about it.

On the most extreme end, Voluntaryist. Freedom of Association. That's the core principle.

As for your other views, you have made some of them clear, which is why I keep ending up arguing with you. Too many of your views are bad ones.

So I refused to list them, yet I've listed them. Alright.

In the topic about Nazis attacking people, all you are doing is defending Nazis and trying to shift blame to others.

That is not the actions of someone who opposes Nazis.

 

[Saelune]

Arent you part of some discord group with Lunatic, vallorn and other WWers? Ofcourse maybe that's fallen through since then. I wouldn't know.

I wonder if that group knows they're harboring a Nazi sympathizer. They might want to do something about that, guilt-by-association and all that jazz.

'Evict the bad actors' is what they would always tell to the group(s) I was part of myself. They need to make sure they follow their own advice.

Right-Wingers are consistently hypocritical.

 

[Kwak]

Try logging out from Google or use incognito mode in your browser.

Opens incognito window. "Detroit pride nazis". No pushing people to the ground. "detroit pride nazis pushing people to the ground". Still nothing. "Detroit pride nazi attack". Not getting there. Switches to Bing instead. "Detroit pride nazi attack". There's some pictures of people pushing people to the ground, finally! From 2015. In Kiev. To finally find this picture you're talking about, I had to find a news article about the event that gave the picture of tearing a flag apart credit to the source, trace that picture from there back to Reuters and scan through their gallery of images to find the right one. Woof.

And all that to find pictures of a woman who got knocked over while trying to physically block them in a cross walk in front of traffic with her own body, quite obviously before they reached the police who actually stopped them. That really wasn't worth the effort.

What's your goal here?
Are you implying that nazis are a peaceful movement who are being unfairly maligned?
Are you stepping up to fill Lunatic's role?

 

[Leg End]

In the topic about Nazis attacking people, all you are doing is defending Nazis and trying to shift blame to others.

Nope. I made you understand that children to not pay their souls for something they had no choice in.

That is not the actions of someone who opposes Nazis.

When they start committing crimes while armed in my neck of the woods where I don't need to board a plane to do something about it, don't worry, you'll see my response then. Calling out these shitheads has been a universal thing in this thread pretty much, and I only bothered posting because you were not realizing the full extent of your own words.

 

[Agema]

snip

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Thanks, that was a good read. What is your profession?

Thank you! I'm an academic; I lecture in pharmacology and neuroscience at a medical school.

 

[Saelune]

When they start committing crimes while armed in my neck of the woods where I don't need to board a plane to do something about it, don't worry, you'll see my response then.

I didn't realize you lived that close to the USSR.

You know there was a shitload more to the German Army than hunting Juden, right? Good chunk of that was being fed to the grinder on the Eastern front against other dudes being fed to the grinder because Stalin was a shithead.

 

[Silvanus]

So we'll just throw the manipulation and false flags and general fuckery in the trash and say every German citizen was responsible. Great.

Nobody said or implied that.

 

[tstorm823]

What's your goal here?
Are you implying that nazis are a peaceful movement who are being unfairly maligned?
Are you stepping up to fill Lunatic's role?

No, I think the Nazis are fairly maligned. I think the police were unfairly maligned, because by my understanding the police headed off the Nazis before they could get to the Pride event and kept them physically contained until they left under the threat of arrest if they did anything remotely against the law. Upon bringing this up, I was asked about pictures circulating of someone pushed to the ground, as though this picture contradicts that view of the police presence. By saying "what about this picture" I was expecting the picture to show the Nazis getting violent and the police doing nothing to stop them. After having to dig through the internet myself for a picture than was vaguely described to me, I find out the picture shows a woman on the ground after trying to physically push back a nazi herself, so it's not clear a crime was committed, but even assuming they assaulted her, there are neither police nor the Pride crowd in the picture, which makes me think that happened before the Nazis got to the police and the police were likely unaware that had happened. So how does that picture contradict a defense of the police? I don't know.

 

[McElroy]

So we'll just throw the manipulation and false flags and general fuckery in the trash and say every German citizen was responsible. Great.

Nobody said or implied that.

Everyone who supported Nazis was responsible and anyone who didn't do everything they could against it chose to effectively support it too. Heavily implied.

 

[Kwak]

What's your goal here?
Are you implying that nazis are a peaceful movement who are being unfairly maligned?
Are you stepping up to fill Lunatic's role?

No, I think the Nazis are fairly maligned. I think the police were unfairly maligned, because by my understanding the police headed off the Nazis before they could get to the Pride event and kept them physically contained until they left under the threat of arrest if they did anything remotely against the law. Upon bringing this up, I was asked about pictures circulating of someone pushed to the ground, as though this picture contradicts that view of the police presence. By saying "what about this picture" I was expecting the picture to show the Nazis getting violent and the police doing nothing to stop them. After having to dig through the internet myself for a picture than was vaguely described to me, I find out the picture shows a woman on the ground after trying to physically push back a nazi herself, so it's not clear a crime was committed, but even assuming they assaulted her, there are neither police nor the Pride crowd in the picture, which makes me think that happened before the Nazis got to the police and the police were likely unaware that had happened. So how does that picture contradict a defense of the police? I don't know.

Well alright then.

 

[Silvanus]

Everyone who supported Nazis was responsible and anyone who didn't do everything they could against it chose to effectively support it too. Heavily implied.

Hmm, I can see a lot of stuff about soldiers (with caveats about children being victims themselves). Nothing about "all citizens".

 

[Leg End]

Hmm, I can see a lot of stuff about soldiers (with caveats about children being victims themselves). Nothing about "all citizens".

Part of the choice was not letting Hitler come to power. Hitler made no secret of his bigotry, his rise to power relied on it. He was supported BECAUSE he was bigoted.

The way I read this does not in any way involve enlistment in the military, but instead relates to the political sphere and thus, the German people as a whole.

 

[Abomination]

So we'll just throw the manipulation and false flags and general fuckery in the trash and say every German citizen was responsible. Great.

Nobody said or implied that.

Everyone who supported Nazis was responsible and anyone who didn't do everything they could against it chose to effectively support it too. Heavily implied.

More so in regard to conscription, if you did not resist conscription (i.e. submit to execution) then you are just as bad as those who were forcing the conscription upon you.

I believe the words were that if anyone fought for Nazi Germany then they were as bad as the Nazis, despite them not knowing exactly what crimes the Nazi regime was guilty of. According to most they were just an occupying force.

 

[Silvanus]

The way I read this does not in any way involve enlistment in the military, but instead relates to the political sphere and thus, the German people as a whole.

This seems to directly refer to people that supported him during his rise to power.

And... yes, they held some measure of responsibility for what came after.

 

[TheIronRuler]

The way I read this does not in any way involve enlistment in the military, but instead relates to the political sphere and thus, the German people as a whole.

This seems to directly refer to people that supported him during his rise to power.

And... yes, they held some measure of responsibility for what came after.

.
You shouldn't try to play attorney for Saelune.

100% of Hitler's supporters are Nazis. Every soldier that fought for Nazi Germany was a Nazi, whether they joined the party or not, whether they 'agreed' with him or not, because in the end, they helped him commit his evil, they fought his war, they ousted their neighbors to the camps. Maybe they were 'just protecting their family' or 'defending their homeland', but at the cost of their very souls.

Saelune is like... the image I had when I was heavily invested in alt-right american media of the typical leftist... It surprised me they weren't all just hyperbolic nonsense. There are people that feel that the most important things in life are equality and the environment, and that all conservatives that supported Trump are racist bigots, etc. and to top it off, Saelune doesn't seem to want to engage in a discussion with the purpose of challenging their opinions.
.

Hmm, I can see a lot of stuff about soldiers (with caveats about children being victims themselves). Nothing about "all citizens".

Part of the choice was not letting Hitler come to power. Hitler made no secret of his bigotry, his rise to power relied on it. He was supported BECAUSE he was bigoted.

The way I read this does not in any way involve enlistment in the military, but instead relates to the political sphere and thus, the German people as a whole.

.
It was about German soldiers under the Nazi regime. No doubt about it.
.

So we'll just throw the manipulation and false flags and general fuckery in the trash and say every German citizen was responsible. Great.

Nobody said or implied that.

Everyone who supported Nazis was responsible and anyone who didn't do everything they could against it chose to effectively support it too. Heavily implied.

More so in regard to conscription, if you did not resist conscription (i.e. submit to execution) then you are just as bad as those who were forcing the conscription upon you.

I believe the words were that if anyone fought for Nazi Germany then they were as bad as the Nazis, despite them not knowing exactly what crimes the Nazi regime was guilty of. According to most they were just an occupying force.

.
Agreed, with one caveat. Many regular Germans knew about what the SS units were doing in the east. The undesirables weren't deported to a different land... they were deported to the sky, in the form of ash.

 

[Silvanus]

You shouldn't try to play attorney for Saelune.

I'm just tired of words getting put in people's mouths.

Saelune is like... the image I had when I was heavily invested in alt-right american media of the typical leftist... It surprised me they weren't all just hyperbolic nonsense. There are people that feel that the most important things in life are equality and the environment, and that all conservatives that supported Trump are racist bigots, etc. and to top it off, Saelune doesn't seem to want to engage in a discussion with the purpose of challenging their opinions.

Neither do most online commentators. The majority are here for the sport of it, for fun, or to hone the craft of argument.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Saelune is like... the image I had when I was heavily invested in alt-right american media of the typical leftist... It surprised me they weren't all just hyperbolic nonsense. There are people that feel that the most important things in life are equality and the environment, and that all conservatives that supported Trump are racist bigots, etc. and to top it off, Saelune doesn't seem to want to engage in a discussion with the purpose of challenging their opinions.

You mean Saelune is literally like most of the people on the internet?

Let's get something Clear. Saelune hasn't had an easy life. From what I recall, the home life was hard... in fact, nonexistent when Saelune admitted to being LBGTQ. Bullied, harassed, marginalized for just being true. True to how an individual was born, and feels.

As much as I seen, Saelune said more than you're responsible for Trump if you voted for Trump. And if you're republican, you're responsible for not picking a better candidate than Trump. And I think that's as fair as an assessment as Democrats and Republicans saying we Liberals and Democrats are responsible for losing 2016 because we picked Hillary Clinton. I chose Bernie, but I get it.

If a person has to fight in every second of every day, and still is having their rights decided FOR them, I understand the passion. I'm a black guy and I still go over in my head who has it rougher in this day and age. I chose one way of acting, but let it be known that it wasn't actually BY choice. If I could get loud, I might. But I know that when my voice raises to a higher level, people whip out the phones and call 911.

But let's not just try to use Saelune as a scapegoat. I got into a knock-down, drag out issue when I talked about how Christians might want to keep their holiest of days (Christmas) to be about Christmas with several people on this forum. There are Atheists here who are the spitting image of what the Faithful fear. There are all shades of people. We get into problems when we don't look at what has gone into how they are acting and why, and just look at their label and go "Ok, got it. It's because that person is one of them."

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Saelune doesn't seem to want to engage in a discussion with the purpose of challenging their opinions.

What is there to challenge? There's no discussion and no debate with people who identify with the Nazi party. These people aren't deluded about what the Nazis stood for. They know exactly what they stood for and they embrace those ideals wholeheartedly. This is not a harmless fuckin' joke. Nazi ideals are fundamentally incompatible with the modern diverse society. These people literally want to kill everyone they deem to be of lesser race or ethnicity etc. At the very least they want to deprive them of equal rights.

There's not a whole lot of difference between Nazis and the fuckin' ISIS or any of the Islamic extremists. The only important thing differentiating them at this point is the fact that the Nazis aren't strong enough to do what Islamic extremists in the Middle East can do. They can't get away with most of that shit so they don't try. So how about we do something about it before they grow stronger? Because it is literally us (normal people aka not fuckin' Nazis) vs them. And in the good old days being a Nazi would have earned you a bullet in the head if you're fuckin' lucky. And now we're seriously debating about giving those people a platform and debating them? Absolutely not. Fuck Nazis.