[Politics] Trump and Concentration Camps

[Leg End]

Asylum seekers aren't illegally entering this country, because asking for asylum isn't a crime.

Not all are Asylum seekers, and it doesn't change the fact that there is a process for that, and we can't just magic up a house for someone while shit happens.

The idea that keeping people in inhumane rotting conditions is suddenly okay because they aren't citizens

An imaginary worthless status granted to us for the amazing feat of falling out of our mom's loins against our will

Tell that to everyone that wants to be a US citizen. Why does it matter then? What does it even mean?

Is asinine and despicable.

Sure it is.

They're concentration camps, ran by an organization younger than the pack of cheese in the back of my fridge, whose entire purpose is cruising the country accosting brown people and locking up ones that don't have universal lottery tickets

Lottery tickets that are completely meaningless and have been granted to us by dropping our of our mother's loins, yet people want for some reason.

stealing their children away where half of them will be adopted away before their parents have a trial,

This raises the issue of what to actually do with children that have entered the country this way, because it's nowhere near as simple and it is tied up with the very real reality of a lot of these kids not belonging to the adults with them, and a whole lot of human trafficking. Welcome to the nightmare.

and the other half will die

...No, they won't. You won't suddenly have a shitload of children just drop dead.

But that's alright because we aren't using the c word

So, is it the conditions that are the issue, or? How specifically are they the same thing to the Japanese Internment Camps? You suddenly alright with them as soon as whatever standards you personally believe to be reasonable are met? Because comparing these things to that specific event brings in a whole new host of things, which makes the comparison rather disgusting.

Even if they are children?

Normally we blame parents for that. That and it doesn't change what I said. Welcome to the realities of what is effectively temporary housing, but even worse if that was such a possible thing.

 

[Saelune]

Asylum seekers aren't illegally entering this country, because asking for asylum isn't a crime.

Not all are Asylum seekers, and it doesn't change the fact that there is a process for that, and we can't just magic up a house for someone while shit happens.

The idea that keeping people in inhumane rotting conditions is suddenly okay because they aren't citizens

An imaginary worthless status granted to us for the amazing feat of falling out of our mom's loins against our will

Tell that to everyone that wants to be a US citizen. Why does it matter then? What does it even mean?

Is asinine and despicable.

Sure it is.

They're concentration camps, ran by an organization younger than the pack of cheese in the back of my fridge, whose entire purpose is cruising the country accosting brown people and locking up ones that don't have universal lottery tickets

Lottery tickets that are completely meaningless and have been granted to us by dropping our of our mother's loins, yet people want for some reason.

stealing their children away where half of them will be adopted away before their parents have a trial,

This raises the issue of what to actually do with children that have entered the country this way, because it's nowhere near as simple and it is tied up with the very real reality of a lot of these kids not belonging to the adults with them, and a whole lot of human trafficking. Welcome to the nightmare.

and the other half will die

...No, they won't. You won't suddenly have a shitload of children just drop dead.

But that's alright because we aren't using the c word

So, is it the conditions that are the issue, or? How specifically are they the same thing to the Japanese Internment Camps? You suddenly alright with them as soon as whatever standards you personally believe to be reasonable are met? Because comparing these things to that specific event brings in a whole new host of things, which makes the comparison rather disgusting.

Even if they are children?

Normally we blame parents for that. That and it doesn't change what I said. Welcome to the realities of what is effectively temporary housing, but even worse if that was such a possible thing.

The reality is these are concentration camps.

 

[Leg End]

The reality is these are concentration camps.

The reality is that we're devaluing the meaning of Concentration Camps for actual concentration camps.

 

[Saelune]

The reality is these are concentration camps.

The reality is that we're devaluing the meaning of Concentration Camps for actual concentration camps.

To say these are not concentration camps is to devalue the lives of the people in them.

 

[Worgen]

Asylum seekers aren't illegally entering this country, because asking for asylum isn't a crime.

Not all are Asylum seekers, and it doesn't change the fact that there is a process for that, and we can't just magic up a house for someone while shit happens.

You do realize that to seek asylum they have to be on US soil. They have to be physically inside the US to claim asylum.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/asylum-at-embassy/
https://it.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulates/rome/sections-offices/dhs/uscis/refugeesasylum/

 

[Leg End]

You do realize that to seek asylum they have to be on US soil. They have to be physically inside the US to claim asylum.

Yes, and then we go back to it being a process and not being magic which you know but, good lord this is depressing.

 

[Trunkage]

The reality is these are concentration camps.

The reality is that we're devaluing the meaning of Concentration Camps for actual concentration camps.

Nazi concentration camps is not the definition of concentration camps. The issue is that no one knew about the mass execution til the war was almost over. Rounding up people and imprisoning them in concentration camps. Mass execution is a whole new level.

 

[Silvanus]

...How did we even get on this topic again?

We were discussing the moral and rational characteristics, I thought.

That's a discussion on the concept of the Age of Majority and the constitutional rights of those accused of a crime, convicted of a crime, and/or fugitives of the law. See: Fourteenth Amendment. One of those hot button ones.

So, you do recognise certain restrictions.

I'm glad of that, at least.

 

[tstorm823]

So they can leave under their own power whenever they want? And they can keep their children with them?

No, but they entered voluntarily knowing that would be the case. If you get on a rollercoaster, you won't have the ability to get off halfway through the ride, that doesn't make a rollercoaster a prison (because you chose to get on). If you go into a bar, you don't have the right to keep your underage kids with you, that doesn't make a bar a into human rights violation.

If you choose to be detained in the US to get an asylum hearing rather than waive that right and be deported, you sign onto the fact that you won't be able to leave on demand and you won't be able to stay with your children.

 

[Seanchaidh]

So they can leave under their own power whenever they want? And they can keep their children with them?

No, but they entered voluntarily knowing that would be the case. If you get on a rollercoaster, you won't have the ability to get off halfway through the ride, that doesn't make a rollercoaster a prison (because you chose to get on). If you go into a bar, you don't have the right to keep your underage kids with you, that doesn't make a bar a into human rights violation.

If you choose to be detained in the US to get an asylum hearing rather than waive that right and be deported, you sign onto the fact that you won't be able to leave on demand and you won't be able to stay with your children.

concentration camp noun: a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard ?used especially in reference to camps created by the Nazis in World War II for the internment and persecution of Jews and other prisoners

You're wrong.

 

[Hades]

So Tommy Robinson is now seeking ''asylum'' in the United States and apparently has a history of trying to illegally enter the United States. Will we see him enter these concentration camps in the near future? That would be something.

 

[tstorm823]

concentration camp noun: a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard ?used especially in reference to camps created by the Nazis in World War II for the internment and persecution of Jews and other prisoners

You're wrong.

You're not detained if you have the option to leave. I'm right.

 

[Baffle]

So Tommy Robinson is now seeking ''asylum'' in the United States and apparently has a history of trying to illegally enter the United States. Will we see him enter these concentration camps in the near future? That would be something.

I thought there was a problem entering the States if you had convictions for crimes relating to drug use?

 

[Hades]

So Tommy Robinson is now seeking ''asylum'' in the United States and apparently has a history of trying to illegally enter the United States. Will we see him enter these concentration camps in the near future? That would be something.

I thought there was a problem entering the States if you had convictions for crimes relating to drug use?

Yes. That's why he once got caught trying to enter with someone else's passport.

 

[tstorm823]

By that logic, Nazi concentration camps weren't concentration camps because the future prisoners could voluntarily leave the country before being captured, and they were eventually released by allied forces

They were just one long rollercoaster ride

To make your analogy even approach working, the Nazi's would have had to find Jewish people and tell them to either leave the country or be imprisoned, and that certainly didn't happen. Beyond that, they were hunting people down in foreign lands as they invaded countries.

But there's no need to compare to Nazis here, take the internment camps in America. Japanese Americans with even "one drop of Japanese blood", who had every right to live freely in the country, were hunted down and forcibly relocated to confined facilities en masse. Asylum seekers are doing the opposite, facing great hardship to get to the US to turn themselves in. The Japanese Americans were held against their will for an undetermined extended period, people seeking asylum are held by their own decision until such a time that we can deliver on their right to plead their case to be in the United States, typically less than a month. Refugees are choosing to be detained in the US. We aren't hunting them down to be concentrated, they are coming to us deliberately.

 

[Avnger]

By that logic, Nazi concentration camps weren't concentration camps because the future prisoners could voluntarily leave the country before being captured, and they were eventually released by allied forces

They were just one long rollercoaster ride

To make your analogy even approach working, the Nazi's would have had to find Jewish people and tell them to either leave the country or be imprisoned, and that certainly didn't happen. Beyond that, they were hunting people down in foreign lands as they invaded countries.

That was literally one of the first steps the Nazis took on their road to ovens and gas chambers...

edit: Have you ever taken even 30 seconds of reflection to wonder why you always come down on the same side of these arguments as racists, white nationalists, and neo-nazis? It's not a coincidence... Now a regular person would use take that information and have a "Hans are we the baddies" moment. You seem to either have never looked at it or did and just decided to double-down.

 

[Saelune]

No, seriously, we are LITERALLY arguing over the definition of 'concentration camps' now. Trump is Hitler 2. This is NOT an exaggeration, and that is the fucked up thing.

There is no moral ground whatsoever on defending LITERAL CONCENTRATION CAMPS!

Those of us who know what a 'red flag' is predicted what Trump would do, but we were told 'wait and see'. Now we are literally seeing Trump's concentration camps and Nazis' rights are more defended than the rights of children.

This world is fucked.

 

[Saelune]

By that logic, Nazi concentration camps weren't concentration camps because the future prisoners could voluntarily leave the country before being captured, and they were eventually released by allied forces

They were just one long rollercoaster ride

To make your analogy even approach working, the Nazi's would have had to find Jewish people and tell them to either leave the country or be imprisoned, and that certainly didn't happen. Beyond that, they were hunting people down in foreign lands as they invaded countries.

But there's no need to compare to Nazis here, take the internment camps in America. Japanese Americans with even "one drop of Japanese blood", who had every right to live freely in the country, were hunted down and forcibly relocated to confined facilities en masse. Asylum seekers are doing the opposite, facing great hardship to get to the US to turn themselves in. The Japanese Americans were held against their will for an undetermined extended period, people seeking asylum are held by their own decision until such a time that we can deliver on their right to plead their case to be in the United States, typically less than a month. Refugees are choosing to be detained in the US. We aren't hunting them down to be concentrated, they are coming to us deliberately.

You're literally defending Concentration camps.