[Politics] Trump and Concentration Camps

[Saelune]

 

[tstorm823]

If daycares were run by a single organisation going out of its way to torture kids, then if a kid died under their supervision you'd probably wonder, though.

Right. But Saelune's justification for believing children are being tortured is that they have died. As promptly evidenced by the equal assumption that a child who dies in daycare did so because the were abused. It's circular reasoning. You can't assume someone was abusing a child because the child died and then blame that person for the death because they abused the child. You need a source of information that isn't your own assumptions.

 

[Saelune]

You need a source of information that isn't your own assumptions.

And you don't?

 

[Nedoras]

If daycares were run by a single organisation going out of its way to torture kids, then if a kid died under their supervision you'd probably wonder, though.

Right. But Saelune's justification for believing children are being tortured is that they have died. As promptly evidenced by the equal assumption that a child who dies in daycare did so because the were abused. It's circular reasoning. You can't assume someone was abusing a child because the child died and then blame that person for the death because they abused the child. You need a source of information that isn't your own assumptions.

The administration has actively argued that the conditions are humane and that they don't have to improve anything. There have been outbreaks of disease due to how unsanitary everything is. They knowingly are putting these people into awful conditions and doing nothing to improve the conditions. As I posted yesterday, they are considering shipping them all to facilities that may or may not exist in Guatemala. Ya know, one of those "safe" countries that they're fleeing from. It doesn't matter that they're not literally putting bags over their heads and beating them, their conditions are torturous. The suffering is the point. The conditions are the point. This whole situation was manufactured to be as awful as possible as a deterrent. The administration has said so in the past, and it's only recently that they've changed tune.

Also those kids that died, did so due to neglect from the guards and people in charge of the facilities. They're being denied medicine and basic care. Attempts at donating the things that they need has also been turned down. Actual help in general has been turned down. Because, once again, the suffering is the point. They're knowingly doing this, they're knowingly making these people suffer. And that IS torture.

 

[Silvanus]

Edited out.

 

[Avnger]

You need a source of information that isn't your own assumptions.

And you don't?

The quote is "Facts don't care about your feelings," not "Facts don't care about his feelings."

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

If daycares were run by a single organisation going out of its way to torture kids, then if a kid died under their supervision you'd probably wonder, though.

Right. But Saelune's justification for believing children are being tortured is that they have died. As promptly evidenced by the equal assumption that a child who dies in daycare did so because the were abused. It's circular reasoning. You can't assume someone was abusing a child because the child died and then blame that person for the death because they abused the child. You need a source of information that isn't your own assumptions.

The department running these camps are arguing, in court, in front of a judge, that providing toothpaste, beds, and showers aren't necessary to provide a safe and sanitary environment.

Yeah, they're torturing these kids

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

The evil people themselves beg to differ.
https://www.propublica.org/article/secret-border-patrol-facebook-group-agents-joke-about-migrant-deaths-post-sexist-memes

Some doctors and teachers have done bad things. So we should get rid of schools and hospitals, right?

Damn near half the workforce was involved.

If half our doctors are fucked up, that means the system is fundamentally broken

 

[Saelune]

You need a source of information that isn't your own assumptions.

And you don't?

The quote is "Facts don't care about your feelings," not "Facts don't care about his feelings."

Facts are left-wing.

 

[Saelune]

Republicans: The US is overpopulated, we cant accept immigrants.

Also Republicans: If you get pregnant, you have to have the baby! Abortion and safe sex is wrong!

Also Also Republicans: Only straight people can get married, cause that's how you make babies.

Also also also Republicans: Gays cant adopt unwanted children! That will mess up the children!

Also also also also Republicans: Tearing children from their families and letting them sit for months in unclean cramped spaces without care or treatment is totally ok, childen die, it happens!

 

[Marik2]

It's torture through inaction. Lots of people have illnesses and conditions that are worsen due to the apathy of the camps. Apathy is a good legal loophole most of the time, because it is done indirectly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_violence

 

[SupahEwok]

I'll say that although you can have an argument on where exactly the line between refugee camp and concentration camp is, it's pretty clear which side the administration is falling on.

I'm in favor of refugee camps, personally. Most of the folks coming in right now qualify. If they had any personal capital, they wouldn't be trudging a thousand miles, families in tow. We need time to set them up with papers and immunizations. They need time for a crash course in English, citizenship (not enough to become citizens, they can pursue that later if they want, but they need to know US law), a jumpstart in some sort of craft or field they can pursue employment in, and knowledge of the agencies and programs that can provide them further aid in integration once they leave the camp.

And the camps don't have to be any sort of 5-star hotel accommodations, but we can do better than overcrowded tents in the desert.

A six month integration program should be possible, on an organizational level. It'll cost money, sure, but at least you're setting them up with the tools to start earning their keep on release, rather than being perpetual burdens on the welfare state.

But the administration that be would rather keep on increasing the proportion of the national budget the military gets, and insisting on getting funding for a wall that would only ever keep on costing money in the future instead of earning it and entering the taxation system. They're much easier bullet points to spout for re-election.

 

[Saelune]

I'll say that although you can have an argument on where exactly the line between refugee camp and concentration camp is, it's pretty clear which side the administration is falling on.

I'm in favor of refugee camps, personally. Most of the folks coming in right now qualify. If they had any personal capital, they wouldn't be trudging a thousand miles, families in tow. We need time to set them up with papers and immunizations. They need time for a crash course in English, citizenship (not enough to become citizens, they can pursue that later if they want, but they need to know US law), a jumpstart in some sort of craft or field they can pursue employment in, and knowledge of the agencies and programs that can provide them further aid in integration once they leave the camp.

And the camps don't have to be any sort of 5-star hotel accommodations, but we can do better than overcrowded tents in the desert.

A six month integration program should be possible, on an organizational level. It'll cost money, sure, but at least you're setting them up with the tools to start earning their keep on release, rather than being perpetual burdens on the welfare state.

But the administration that be would rather keep on increasing the proportion of the national budget the military gets, and insisting on getting funding for a wall that would only ever keep on costing money in the future instead of earning it and entering the taxation system. They're much easier bullet points to spout for re-election.

They don't WANT to let them in, even if they are 'the good ones'.


Trump on twitter recently told a bunch of non-white American female politicians who were democratically elected for them to 'go back to their terrible countries'. Again, let me hammer it home, he told a bunch of AMERICANS to 'go back to their countries' due to them not being white.

That's right, the undemocratic despot told a bunch of people they are not American solely cause of their skin color.

 

[SupahEwok]

I'll say that although you can have an argument on where exactly the line between refugee camp and concentration camp is, it's pretty clear which side the administration is falling on.

I'm in favor of refugee camps, personally. Most of the folks coming in right now qualify. If they had any personal capital, they wouldn't be trudging a thousand miles, families in tow. We need time to set them up with papers and immunizations. They need time for a crash course in English, citizenship (not enough to become citizens, they can pursue that later if they want, but they need to know US law), a jumpstart in some sort of craft or field they can pursue employment in, and knowledge of the agencies and programs that can provide them further aid in integration once they leave the camp.

And the camps don't have to be any sort of 5-star hotel accommodations, but we can do better than overcrowded tents in the desert.

A six month integration program should be possible, on an organizational level. It'll cost money, sure, but at least you're setting them up with the tools to start earning their keep on release, rather than being perpetual burdens on the welfare state.

But the administration that be would rather keep on increasing the proportion of the national budget the military gets, and insisting on getting funding for a wall that would only ever keep on costing money in the future instead of earning it and entering the taxation system. They're much easier bullet points to spout for re-election.

They don't WANT to let them in, even if they are 'the good ones'.


Trump on twitter recently told a bunch of non-white American female politicians who were democratically elected for them to 'go back to their terrible countries'. Again, let me hammer it home, he told a bunch of AMERICANS to 'go back to their countries' due to them not being white.

That's right, the undemocratic despot told a bunch of people they are not American solely cause of their skin color.

True. Few of the cranially endowed would claim Trump in their group.

 

[Agema]

Just chiming in to say:

They're concentration camps.

Any historian will tell you that that is the correct term to use. [https://www.vox.com/first-person/2019/6/20/18693058/aoc-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-concentration-camps-immigration-border]

If any of you have a different opinion and can provide your documented expertise, then you are welcome to.

Yep.

Basically, if people are free to leave, it's a refugee camp. If they aren't, then it's a concentration camp.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Trump on twitter recently told a bunch of non-white American female politicians who were democratically elected for them to 'go back to their terrible countries'.

Well, how many of them come from a country that isn't being run into the ground?

(Ok, I'm about the zillionth person to say something like that)

 

[Saelune]

At this point it clear that anybody still supporting the Trump government is supporting fascism, these concentration camps make that clear.

Trump on twitter recently told a bunch of non-white American female politicians who were democratically elected for them to 'go back to their terrible countries'.

Well, how many of them come from a country that isn't being run into the ground?

(Ok, I'm about the zillionth person to say something like that)

Only 1 of them was not born in the US

 

[Saelune]

Trump on twitter recently told a bunch of non-white American female politicians who were democratically elected for them to 'go back to their terrible countries'.

Well, how many of them come from a country that isn't being run into the ground?

(Ok, I'm about the zillionth person to say something like that)

Only 1 of them was not born in the US

 

[CaitSeith]

At this point it clear that anybody still supporting the Trump government is supporting fascism, these concentration camps make that clear.

Trump on twitter recently told a bunch of non-white American female politicians who were democratically elected for them to 'go back to their terrible countries'.

Well, how many of them come from a country that isn't being run into the ground?

(Ok, I'm about the zillionth person to say something like that)

Only 1 of them was not born in the US

Ah, then the answer is 1.

Sometimes it seems like GOP's anti-immigration strategy is to make America more terrible than any current Third World country.