Gorrath said:
Jesterscup said:
Right, but this gets back into thought policing again. If a guy has a poor attitude toward women and watches things that reinforce his own poor attitude, that's his own problem. It is not the job of society to restrict access to content based on the idea that some people with poor attitudes will have those poor attitudes reinforced by said content.
Playing Devils advocate here, but it is. We have censorship boards that rate & classify ( and ban ) materials deemed inappropriate, Police also have powers to confiscate materials that society decides are unsuitable. and lastly you have parents, guardians , teachers and more censoring materials inappropriate for children. While you may find it distasteful for the state to ban materials, it happens, and I find it difficult to argue that a parent shouldn't censor materials their children have access to ( beyond it actually being a legal requirement of being a parent).
Are you asking if it's a moral thing? Are you asking if the effect of that reinforcement is good? I think it is an amoral issue and that the effect in the instance you describe would be "bad". I also think racist attitudes are poor ones and watching racist crap to reinforce your (royal you here) racist attitudes is a "bad" thing, but I would never, ever advocate for banning material deemed "racist".
Personally I avoid the use of the word moral, it's used in general rather ambiguously. on an ethical level however, yeah, use that power I have to censor any material I feel is unsuitable. Who decides? me, I do, buck stops here. I don't allow content where I have the power to disallow that content. I also take on the responsibility to stand up and say that I find something distasteful.
Whether or not someone might have the poor attitude about women reinforced by content they choose to consume simply isn't any of my damned business. Now if they let that poor attitude drive them to do something illegal or immoral to a woman, then we have an obligation to stand up. Banning content we feel leads to poor attitudes is something tyrants do.
Sure Tyrants,Police,Parents,the legal system. There is tyranny everywhere, it is a side-effect of power, all power given to an individual also imbues them with a little. It can also be argued that all exercise of power is tyranny. That being said, I didn't mention banning, or any larger action of 'society'. That being said, yes I have my own little tyranny, and I exercise it. It is not my 'right' or 'moral obligation' it is in fact my 'legal duty' to do so.
When it comes to a larger scope, that of materials out in the public, I have two stances.
Firstly if I am subjected to material that I (or my children) have to choice to witness, then yes I ( aforementioned obligation ), will darn well stand up and decry a piece of media, I don't want my children seeing a walking dead poster, or a scary film poster, that stuff scares me, what about a 4 yr old? Frankly in this sort of situation ban it all, this is media pushed down all our throats without any choice of consumption.
There is a kinda half-class here, there are adult materials in public view, I'll take the example of an art show with adult themes. In this sort of case, in general, you will be informed of the themes and subject matter, and able to make a choice. The choice here is important, I choose to go to a movie or an art gallery, I don't get to choose to look at the side of a bus.
Secondly material in private.
So if "racist Bob" wants to watch racist stuff in his racist house, then who am I to stop him? but I'm not going to visit his house, I'm not going to be his friend either, and if asked I'm going to honestly find said material, and 'Bob' distasteful. I'm not going to say that anyone shouldn't watch porn in private, nor tell them which sort of porn is 'good' or 'bad' as an 'objective viewpoint', but I will happily state my own view and explain my stance in regards to a piece of material. However, as stated above, lots of other institutions have that power. Whether them holding that power, is another question, but it's foolish to pretend they don't.
Lastly I want to make a point. I didn't advocate an action, I gave a view. at no point did I suggest ( or mention ) banning. I gave my own (subjective) viewpoint, something I'm at liberty to do. Because that is the way we make a difference, we state our case, our viewpoint, and perhaps, just perhaps, it helps change peoples minds. If it doesn't, not my problem, but it's my voice and again I have an obligation to state my views.
While I also have an obligation to listen to other views and reconsider my own view, I don't appreciate having assumptions made about where my view leads to. I hope this post clearly gives my standpoint , in a conclusive manner, in regards to the censorship and banning of content. The assumption that my first post was pro-banning was a little tyranny on it's own.
Should society ban porn deemed as sexist? Actually, I'm against this. More because it would be ineffective than out of any ethical or philosophical point of view. What action would I advocate? I advocate the expression of my point in the hope that my voice will add to others that help to change society, as a part of it. "Racist Bob" can have his porn, but when asked I'll state how I feel about it.
I do find it curious that many of the people here have been strongly against banning/censorship, yet reading through, I actually can't find anyone pro-censorship. Cool, state your anti-censorship stance, but don't assume anyone who expresses a different point of view as being pro-censorship, unless they state it. As perhaps you can see from this post, it's not always a black and white assumption.
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Is sexist porn ethical?
Hmmm a curious question, and a valid one. Well for a start a huge amount of porn isn't ethical, when exploitation, discrimination & abuse occur, then no it's not. But is it possible for porn to be both sexist and ethical? Well of course its 'possible' porn is another form of art, and I'll happily stand to the concept of free speech in art. The filmmaker who portrays racism in a film isn't by definition being racist, similarly the auter of a porno may be making an artistic comment. So it's possible. I'd argue that it's pretty rare though to find porn that is both sexist and ethical.