Poll: Do you like Israel?

[Aprilgold]

Don't like it, can't deal with desert and crazy people and their dogs.

 

[TheIronRuler]

snip

None of the points you just made, to me justify taking someone eles land. they chose someone elses land cause it had religious meaning to them. that land as far as i know has meaning to every major monotheistic religion in the world.

the land may not have had any infastructure but it belonged to someone else. so can i go in and claim any empty land i want?

Anyway it jsut seems to me they could have been given a better homeland. i have no problem with them having a homeland but where they chose seems to ruffle to many feathers. couldnt they have been given an area in the UK or the US?

The land at the time was under-populated. Besides the great four sacred cities, there were no other cities besides one port town. That's it. The rest were agricultural villages.
Less than 100 thousand lived there at the time of the Turks, a mix of Jews and Muslims.
They carved their own land. The UN agreed on land that is suited for the Jews and for the Arabs. it decided the land almost equally (Jews got a large chunk of desert, but it's still desert)according to major population concentrations.
Most of the land belonged to no-one, it belonged to the Turks. It didn't belong to the Arabs because they didn't cultivate it. They could claim whatever they want but nobody gives a rats ass about investigating their claims.

 

[Kargathia]

Am I getting a bit tired of the whole religious debate between people who won't stop before everyone is dead? Yea.

Can I at least respect their willingness to openly be a twat? You bet.

It's rather refreshing to see a government that isn't going for the holier-than-thou act when everyone knows they're full of shit.

 

[Bunnymarn]

Oh, and why of all people did you have to go and assassinate Yitzhak Rabin? He was actually going to get something done with the whole conflict...

To this day the Oslo treaties are a piece of paper. The only thing present from the piece of paper are the security arrangements.

They're a piece of paper because he got assassinated before he could do anything and then the Lukid government with Benign came and pretty much just reversed everything Rabin was trying to do.

I do want to say something about the Rabin assassination.
The rabbies that incited the public against him were never judged.
Comparing that to how the police is over-compensating now and getting great rabbies locked up and questioned whenever the smallest thing arises, I think that it was intentional.
Disgusting, but it's here to show us that words can kill.
Israel has a memorial day for him every year.

It's good that Israel at least now acknowledges him and what he tried to do (I assume?). Although, I must say, his policy as Defence Minister was shocking. And the fact that they were never judged is... disheartening.

 

[TheIronRuler]

I was talking about the Palestinian refugees. If there is another large group of Arab refugees, I can't comment on that, since I don't know anything about it.

And in terms of your post to someone about nationalism - why on earth would you support nationalism? It's just a dangerous concept that is used to manipulate people. The only legitimate use for it is to inspire pride, but that invariably becomes excessive.

There is just one group of refugees, Palestinian.
...
About nationalism, it;s the same as Patriotism, which is loving your country.
That's all there is to it. Nationalism is just a group which is one big loving family, whether it may be France, Spain, Cuba or Japan - they all have their national pride and they all feel they are a part of a nation.
That's nationalism. It isn't dangerous. When it's turned to - "my race is better than yours" ala Imperial Japan, THEN it is bad.

 

[Blue_vision]

I really like Israel as a place and an idea. The whole levantine region is top on my list of places to visit. It seems beautiful, and I actually love the idea of a Jewish homeland.

That said, the government of Israel needs to change how it's going about its business. That "Jewish homeland" needs to be a joint homeland for both the Jews and Palestinians, no apartheid state. And I think that'd make it an even better, even more beautiful country.

 

[Tanis]

I don't give a damn about this.

Though I do hate my OWN nation's tendency to bend over backwards for them.

Israel deserves NO special treatment and when they commit acts of terror against civilians they should be punished for it.

 

[starkiller212]

Bunnymarn's post on page 2 was the best answer by far IMO, and he put it far better than I ever could.
TheIronRuler, please stop talking about it as if it's black and white ('everything is the Arabs' own fault!'), and being a bully on this thread. Just because some religious Jews wanted to live by Jerusalem does not mean that they had any right to settle there, your "nationalist movement" point is bullshit--the Palestinians ALREADY LIVED THERE. It's as absurd as if American Catholics suddenly just moved into the Vatican and demanded that they get to share the area. Sure, the UN made it legal, but that doesn't make it right. Israel has since committed many acts of dubious legality at best in the name of national defense, so I'm sure you're not a stickler for the law anyway. (I realize that this applies to many countries, including the US and most of Israel's enemies. I don't agree with them either)

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

Sorry, can't say I'm a fan of your little "occupation".

 

[TheIronRuler]

It;s not funny because you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the topic of Israel and "palestine".

well as far as I know it, it went something like this, the land of current day israel was owned by the british but mostly palestinians lived there then came zionism and a jews started going there en masse later the british etc decided to divide the country between the jews and the palestinians, the jews quickly declared independence and started their own country while the palestinians were like "fuck that shit we've lived here for a long time what right do they have to start a country here", then things got complex and a bunch of wars were fought and israel won all of them, now palestinians do want their own country but the jews don't want them to have one
and thats what I learned in history class, ofcourse I could be 100% wrong and it could have all been a conspiracy by lizard people to start a bunch of wars and entertain themselves but I don't have time to look it up

You have some facts right.
The UN offered a plan to divide the land into two - One for Palestinians, the other for Jews.
Arabs didn't agree on it, and there was NOT SOLUTION even after the British left (They had a time limit on their mandate). So instead of waiting for them being slaughtered, the Jews declared their own country in the original borders drawn by the UN.
At first there were only pockets of resistance, as most of the original territory wasn't under their control. Then won the war and took what was rightfully (by the UN) theirs. That's the '48 war of independence.
There were more wars in which the Arabs ganged up on Israel and together tried to eliminate it, again. They failed and Israel took land. It took land from Egypt (Sinai Peninsula) and they got a peace treaty. Same with Jordon. They took the Golan Heights as a strategic buffer zone between Syria and Israel.
If you have any other questions, ask away.

 

[aei_haruko]

I saw the question on Germany so I thought what the hell..
How do all of you gamers out there feel about my homeland?

..I get a feeling that this will controversial..
No matter what, I love you guys and please give your honest opinion..I am just curious

Cheers

I support it's right to exist, something I have seen that the palestinians don't. Therefore, I believe your country is in the right, and that the palestinians have no good reason to attack you guys.

 

[jonyboy13]

If you have any other questions, ask away.

What about the lizard people? lol
Nice to see someone know their facts right in this thread.

I'm just waiting for the UN to give the Palestine people a country and see take over it after a week.

 

[neoontime]

Eh, my brother's name is Israel and I'm completely fine with him as well.

 

[MortisLegio]

When I went there it was nice

EXCEPT that there was major fighting in Gaza the day my group got there so some sections of the tour were cut (for our own protection obviously) but other than that it was enjoyable

 

[Bunnymarn]

I was talking about the Palestinian refugees. If there is another large group of Arab refugees, I can't comment on that, since I don't know anything about it.

And in terms of your post to someone about nationalism - why on earth would you support nationalism? It's just a dangerous concept that is used to manipulate people. The only legitimate use for it is to inspire pride, but that invariably becomes excessive.

There is just one group of refugees, Palestinian.
...
About nationalism, it;s the same as Patriotism, which is loving your country.
That's all there is to it. Nationalism is just a group which is one big loving family, whether it may be France, Spain, Cuba or Japan - they all have their national pride and they all feel they are a part of a nation.
That's nationalism. It isn't dangerous. When it's turned to - "my race is better than yours" ala Imperial Japan, THEN it is bad.

Okay, well, the refugees is the fault of both Israel and the Arabs, like I said. And I'm sure they had homes - the 1~ million of them didn't all just sleep on a random patch of ground.


I dislike patriotism as well. The idea that I should love one bit of land more than another, just because I happened to be born there is ridiculous. And take Europe for example, if France and Spain became one country, the same nationalism would be promoted throughout the Franco-Spain region, but if you did the opposite, and made more countries, you'd have even more different tangents of nationalism. Me being subject some form of nationalism over another, just because that's where the borders for the country were decided is completely absurd.

 

[Ickorus]

Don't know much about Israel except I had a friend who came from there once when I was a kid.

I have seen the news and from what I gather despite the news saying how evil the country is and such crap it seems to me Israel is just defending it's land and it's people, the civilian casualties in their war tend to be because the people Israel are fighting are cowards and fight from civilian populated areas.

 

[TheIronRuler]

-snip-

Okay, well, the refugees is the fault of both Israel and the Arabs, like I said. And I'm sure they had homes - the 1~ million of them didn't all just sleep on a random patch of ground.


I dislike patriotism as well. The idea that I should love one bit of land more than another, just because I happened to be born there is ridiculous. And take Europe for example, if France and Spain became one country, the same nationalism would be promoted throughout the Franco-Spain region, but if you did the opposite, and made more countries, you'd have even more different tangents of nationalism. Me being subject some form of nationalism over another, just because that's where the borders for the country were decided is completely absurd.

Nationalism is the secular answer to belonging to a group, a replacement for the church.
Now you belong to a group of your countrymen.
It's social evolution. Soon it'll be the Human Alliance.

 

[Ickorus]

-snip-

Okay, well, the refugees is the fault of both Israel and the Arabs, like I said. And I'm sure they had homes - the 1~ million of them didn't all just sleep on a random patch of ground.


I dislike patriotism as well. The idea that I should love one bit of land more than another, just because I happened to be born there is ridiculous. And take Europe for example, if France and Spain became one country, the same nationalism would be promoted throughout the Franco-Spain region, but if you did the opposite, and made more countries, you'd have even more different tangents of nationalism. Me being subject some form of nationalism over another, just because that's where the borders for the country were decided is completely absurd.

Nationalism is the secular answer to belonging to a group, a replacement for the church.
Now you belong to a group of your countrymen.
It's social evolution. Soon it'll be the Human Alliance.

The day we Humans ally together as a species can not come soon enough in my opinion.

 

[Stephen Wo]

I support Israel and feel for the plight of the Hebraic people. However, I also find it unfair of the military and political ruthlessness against Palestine, and the UNs full support.

 

[Veylon]

The land at the time was under-populated. Besides the great four sacred cities, there were no other cities besides one port town. That's it. The rest were agricultural villages.
Less than 100 thousand lived there at the time of the Turks, a mix of Jews and Muslims.
They carved their own land. The UN agreed on land that is suited for the Jews and for the Arabs. it decided the land almost equally (Jews got a large chunk of desert, but it's still desert)according to major population concentrations.
Most of the land belonged to no-one, it belonged to the Turks. It didn't belong to the Arabs because they didn't cultivate it. They could claim whatever they want but nobody gives a rats ass about investigating their claims.

I'd like to point out that this is dangerous logic. It's been used to justify expansion against American Indians, Australian Aborigines, San Tribesman, and Tibetan Herders. You aren't using the land the way I would, therefore I have the right to take it from you. You are also giving over all power to the UN to arbitrarily shift people around as though they were so many sacks of beans. God forbid you ever be on the other end of things.