Poll: Metalcore Hate

[corneth]

I'm pretty anti-anti-genre talk in general. I feel very strongly that artists should be considered on their own merits separate from the genres they belong to. (I answered "indifference")

 

[WWWLUCIFERCOM]

Theres some good Metal Core bands but theirs way more awful bands in it. On the subject of Nu Metal Why are we still talking about it Nu metal came around the time grunge in the 90s so metal could stay alive but grunge is dead so should nu metal right? (Just a thought plus Nu metal is the special ed member to the metal family)

 

[The_Echo]

I don't like metalcore. I used to have a couple of metalcore bands in my collection (Eyes Set to Kill being the one I remember). I don't have anything against metalcore, I just haven't found a band that... stuck out. So far, it's all seemed very samey. For example, Eyes Set to Kill is almost good. I like their female vocalists, but (far as I can remember) they eventually decided to put them in the back and let their screamer take center stage, who I think isn't even that good and should leave.

And that same thought happens through every metalcore band I listen to. They put a lot of emphasis on their screaming... but it isn't very good. (For reference, I consider good growling/screaming to be along the lines of The Black Dahlia Murder [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDEvqdw2fmA], Attila [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4-BZsNXXtQ], Dir En Grey [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAjohzRdfww] and We Butter the Bread with Butter [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iEW_pXjsgA].)

 

[Rath709]

I intensely dislike the kind of people who listen to only one genre of music and refuse to listen to anything else. I also feel sorry for them, as they are denying themselves so much potential pleasure to be had by branching out their tastes. My iPod is filled with a mixture of Punk, Alt Rock, Classic Metal, Epic Metal, Aggrotech, Acoustic Rock, and even Classical. I'm as likely to listen to Grendel as I am to Bad Religion, and if someone then tries to tell me that I'm somehow deficient for not having a fanatical devotion to the sound of people screaming their frigging lungs out, I can't help but think negatively toward them.

 

[Yopaz]

Metalcore isn't my favourite core subgenre, I am more into melodic hardcore or post-hardcore, but for the sake of discussing this it's not that complicated. Metalcore is a fusion genre which is related to the punk genre more than the major metal genre. Metal and punk are kinda like enemies and thus the metalheads might not get the appeal.

Now I like punk and I think metalcore is OK every now and then. I don't really like metal so I fit into the stereotype too. A general rule of the thumb is that the genre is far from being mainstream.

Edit: Also I didn't vote since I'm not a metalhead and I take the integrity of this poll very seriously.

 

[Ishal]

BUt thats the problem, its electronic music. and its the worst kind of electronic music. its almost like trance but more agressive.

so mixing things up is unacceptible now?




That song, for instance, is a "typical" or "mainstream" metalcore song.

And I imagine there are people who believe that metal without harsh vocals isn't "real" metal, but generally speaking those people are silly. About as silly as people who believe that metalcore has to have breakdowns, or else it's not really metalcore. But then, I don't get as uppity about genre classification as a lot of people seem to, so I might not have the best insight onto that topic.

Funny enough though, a lot of people tend to call post-hardcore bands "emo kiddy bullshit". Really puts me off of discussing my love for the genre, since I don't like inciting hatred over miniscule, paltry things.

I'm in the same boat as you are with this, and I think As I Lay Dying has some talent for the metalcore genre..their riffs and drum sections are well put together and the singer writes some pretty neat stuff.

This is my take on the problem of metalcore and in fighting between people who like metal. Metal songs (of just about any genre) tend to be like puzzles. They are complex and are complete when all the pieces are put together. When you have genres like Metal-Core a conjoining of heavy metal and Hardcore.. you have half the pieces from metal and half from hardcore.. this means it is inevitable to have people hate it. I've fallen into that trap before too.

Then you inevitably have people who think that it destroyed the original sound of where the genre came from, this happened when all these bands (Job for A Cowboy, As I lay Dying) and a bunch of others started popping up. You would not have metalcore if not got the Gothenberg scene producing so much good metal..some of it is even called Gothenberg metal. I myself am able to listen to both, but I have my limits on what I can tolerate from metalcore.

For those who might not know what I mean...

this is part of the Gothenberg scene

this is one of my favorite As I Lay Dying songs, you might be able to hear the resemblence

 

[ron1n]

Secondly, metalcore is extremely, extremely over exposed right now. The good bands are few and far between, just like any other popular genre. There's a lot of good stuff, granted, but there's an exponential amount of bad stuff, and it's tainting the already vauge genre.

This.

Metal/Rock is littered with the graves of genres that became far too oversaturated with rubbish. Grunge, Nu Metal, Melodeath, Metalcore.

All the same story. There will be a handful of actually talented artists putting out interesting stuff and moulding/creating the genre. Then there's the other 90% that are just no-talent idiots cashing in on the fad.

There's also the fact that a lot of these genres that hit fad status tend to have really boring and repetitive song writing (which helps give them commercial appeal), so that combined with the countless releases means an ever lowering quality bar.

'Core' genres in general are just a pop culture fad that will eventually give way to something else. I mean, it might be skinny jeans, and screaming now, but it's crazy to think that not that long ago, it was baggy jeans, skater clothes and Nu Metal rapping that was in vogue.

Oh and to the people saying Metalcore is a subsidiary of Hardcore not Metal:

In theory this is what is supposed to be true, but the reality is, far too many so-called 'metalcore' bands just regurgitate a bunch of old melodeath gothenburg riffs, lay in some breakdowns and screams and call it a day.

 

[EscapeGoat_v1legacy]

Meh, to me metal is metal and if the band feels right to me I'll listen to them regardless of genere or subgenre.

You, sir, are a fucking paragon. If only more people had that ideology stuck in their heads.

Anyway, OT: I don't mind it. If I hear metalcore I like, I fucking listen to it. I don't let other people's opinions on music influence what I listen to, although I'm always up for hearing why you don't like it. Debates and arguments are good.

There are definitely some really dull metalcore bands out there who try nothing to help push the genre along, but for every dull metalcore band with a whiny autotuned vocalist or tedious guitars crunching out the same Drop-C-ride-the-low-E riff structure there's always a couple more interesting ones who aren't afraid to experiment or even just infuse their music with energy, conviction and damn good playing.

They just aren't good musicians. To elaborate, it sounds like they put their anger into the song without bothering to give it much compositional shape. It lacks character and thought. The good kind of metal, even the really crude stuff, at least has an idea of what it wants musically. Even the label "metal-core" betrays this attitude - two types of music smashed together not because it makes sense musically but because "we like them".

And yet, surely you must allow that music can and must be driven by emotion - even anger (for example, the development of punk was based on anger at an existing political system) and that this emotion must come above compositional shape? To create a song where structure is placed higher than the emotional force behind the music strikes me as ineffective and detrimental to your music. Also, why is the idea of a fusion genre such a bad thing? Why is blending two genres because "we like them" such a terrible idea? An artist wants to fuse two genres they enjoy, why is this negative? Yes, there is the risk that the genre comes out bland but without such risks being taken, its reasonable to assume metal (being, originally, a fusion of blues-style musical theory and hard rock's musical sentiment and instruments) wouldn't exist, let alone all the subgenres of it that we have today.

 

[shrekfan246]

*snip*

In the line of an actual reason, I find it boring. There's been little musical variation or creativity in the (admittedly few) songs that I have heard from the genre. To be fair I say much the same about some Metal too. I can't hear the lyrics enough to work out whether they're clever enough to get me past the noise. Screaming and distortion for the sake of screaming and distortion, endless and unvarying, do not appeal to me.

For now I'll just sit back and enjoy my Devin. Glorious, glorious Devin.

Well, that is why I specifically pointed out progressive metalcore as well, because as a genre it tends to focus much more heavily on the music side of things. I mean, if you can listen to The Human Abstract, As I Lay Dying, Between the Buried and Me, and Bring Me The Horizon and see no difference between the songs, then I'd have to just say the overall genre isn't for you.

This is one of the complaints I see leveled at the genre most often, actually, and while I suppose it's probable that people who don't actively search out artists are only going to be exposed to the most popular ones (who do tend to have significant similarities in their work), saying the genre as a whole is unvarying or uncreative is being disingenuous. I could say the same thing of rap, alternative rock, indie rock, or pop, and while it may be true that the most popular current artists all sound 'generic', there's still a lot of great talent hidden beneath the surface.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Because there's a horrible crushing sense of disappointment when someone says 'I like metal' only to then follow it up with a statement like 'like As I Lay Dying'.

To elaborate, I think that metalheads often hate metalcore because it comes across as an insincere attempt to be heavy whilst also jumping on the bandwagon. Same goes for deathcore, hardcore... fuck core music, basically. Personally, I don't like it because it tends to be so goddamn formulaic. All the riffs are constructed in the same way, and that goes double for breakdowns. So I just find the majority of bands in the genre really boring.

Some progressive metalcore is good though. Between The Buried and Me are sweet.

 

[MisterGobbles]

This is the reason people hate metalcore.

 

[dfphetteplace]

Are you saying you don't like the clean vocals in metalcore, or that all clean vocals cannot be metal?

I dislike the clean vocals in metalcore, because they sound whiny. The whiny-ness makes them not Metal.

Okay. I just wanted clarification. I agree with you on that, though.

 

[mitchell271]

Spoiler: Oh god make it stop

This is the reason people hate metalcore.

I understand the hate towards that. Fuck that shit.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

I like a lot of metal, but metalcore, nu-metal and death/black metal tend to be my least favorite subgenres.

Hiss at the implication that black and death are essentially the same.

Sorry if I offended you, I just have a hard time telling them apart.

Understandable if you're a complete metal noob and see all metal as "just noise", however if you've at least got a basic metal background then the difference should be pretty obvious.

Black Metal is easily spotted by it's more high pitched 'shrieked' vocals and lo-fi sound recording. Death Metal however uses a more deep gutturel style of vocals with chugging, crunchy riffs and downtuned guitars. Musically BM primarily sticks to using a lot of diminished chords and tremolo picking arpeggios whereas DM is more chromatic using tri-tones and flattened seconds to produce its heavy riffs.

For an example compare the BM song Hymn I: Of Wolf and Fear with the DM song Where is Your God? (technically melodic death but meh)

<youtube=57pPK9LIa34>

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Sigh. I don't appreciate being called a metal noob. I've enjoyed the genre for as long as I can remember. But Black and Death Metal don't sound distinct enough to warrant two separate subgenres in my humble opinion; they both contain high-speed guitar, noisy drums, obnoxious and slightly incomprehensible vocals.
Oh, I guess I could make an effort to tell them apart, but I enjoy listening to neither, so why should I?
Sorry to be an ass, I guess.
TL;DR: I can tell them apart, but I am not going to bother. I'd rather listen to something with a distinct, clear sound, comprehensible non-screamed vocals and some actual fucking melody and tonal variety.
Jeez, I'm just making it worse by furthering the argument, aren't I. Sigh.

 

[Jedi-Hunter4]

Now, metalcore is one of my favourite subgenres

The problem is bolded. Metalcore isn't a subgenre of metal, it's a subgenre of punk rock -- specifically a sub-sub-genre of hardcore punk. You might recognize punk rock as metal's natural enemy

When it first started out I'll give you what was classed as metalcore was a sub-genre of of punk & metal twined, but are your really going to sit there and claim bands like Trivium, As I lay dying, Bullet for my Valentine, A7X, All that remains and Killswitch engage are not metal bands your totally mental. Seriously Pantera have been credited from a few of their songs as laying some of the foundations of modern metalcore. You might as well claim classic Metallica are a pop band if your going to claim modern metalcore are not a subgenre of metal.

It's not an inherently bad genre. It's just that the overwhelming majority of it is full of try-hard scene kids getting their angst on all the while pretending to be "hardcore" and "br00TaL".

neither is linkin park...I also like linkin parks new stuff

Ew.

As apposed to the majority of metal heads who seem to think there's a black dress code an get all superior about what constitutes "proper metal" as if their some sort of connoisseurs of the music world. Every music genre has its douche bags, I hate labeling music as it always leads to conflict with what "cool" tag people want to go with their music but I do listen to a wide range of music allot of it pretty heavy an I would say Metalcore bands form a good chunk of my music taste an there's not allot of scene kids at the bands I've been too, too many bellends with stretched earlobes though....

Also there are posers with ever band and genre (Except one direction only the truly mentally deranged jump on that crazy train......to hell), the amount of times I've been in a situation with people where your obliged to start chatting an their wearing a "master of puppets" T an I'm like "I love that album, you listen to allot of Metallica?" "um yer, not really". Gun n' roses are another big one for that.

Metalcore is to metal as Vanilla Ice is to gangsta rap.

On a less inflammatory note: I imagine the dislike stems from the fact that some 'proper' metalheads feel protective about their favourite music. It is something like why a 'proper' punk would never be caught dead listening to Green Day; bastardizing your favourite music to make it more widely accepted, and in the process cheapening it, and cheapening other bands with a similar sound by the new mainstream association.

Something like that...?

OW yes because to quote myself " Trivium, As I lay dying, Bullet for my Valentine, A7X, All that remains and Killswitch engage" get soooooooooooo much radio play time and are such serial stadium fillers!! I like a broad spectrum of metal music from bands like mnemic to cancer bats to classic A7X and the classics like pantera & metalica, could go into more detail but trying to give examples everyone should know if their metal fans.

Music is not a set taste for everyone face it, metal music has been sang with clear lyrics for decades, get used to it, if you think have clear sung lyrics is not metal music, you don't know metal music and you need to get on itunes or amazon or however you get your music and start listening to the progression of it, it never came through as one main vein of "this is metal" there's always been branches. Metalcore has some of the best guitarist in the business in it that frankly lay down harmonic melody's as verses in some songs that rival allot of traditional metal bands solo's, the singers allot of the time have the ability to manipulate their voices from deep throaty vocals to clear traditional singing, an they get hate for that? Yer makes sense. ~

Meh, to me metal is metal and if the band feels right to me I'll listen to them regardless of genere or subgenre. My favorite band, Dethklok, is stuck between Death and Melodic Death at times, and my second favorite band is a trip-hop group known as the Gorillaz, with Disturbed (can be considered Nu Metal) and Lamb of God (groove metal) tying for third.

People try too hard to stay faithful to one brand of music and that isn't what you're supposed to do. Musical taste is meant to explored and expanded so trying to only like a certain style is pretty damn stupid.

This guys on the ball listen to him! Can't get my head around people who go on about whats "proper this" or "proper that" their the real posers judging the crap out of everyone else's music taste while adhering to a rigid stereotype in a vain effort to be out of the mainstream, when in reality their achieving the opposite of being individual.

 

[Jedi-Hunter4]

Spoiler: Oh god make it stop

This is the reason people hate metalcore.

I understand the hate towards that. Fuck that shit.

That's not metalcore...... Most music bodys class them as Deathcore or death metal. Where's the very obvious break downs, where are the harmonic guitars? Where's the clear singing? I'm not sure of the proper terminology but I'm get to see a metalcore band that sings like that all for the entire song and defiantly not where the singer does that like throat scream.

The only thing this shares with metalcore is the dropped tuning, you know like most metal bands?