Poll: Metroid: Other M killed Samus

[hobo_welf]

Well curse my double posting. I'm of the firm opinion that fan input needs to be extraordinarily careful. For instance, on WoW, game balance was originally pretty good, but as patches come out increasing the power of certain classes, people flood the forums upset about the way their classes are no longer relevant, so Blizzard listens and buffs a class and nerfs another class, and viola, WoW is a game I haven't played in ages simply because everything changes so often. Due to fan input.

OoT was one of the most highly praised Zelda games Nintendo ever made, but when Twilight Princess was modeled similarly, it tanked. Albeit the game was retardedly easy, but I hope you see what I'm getting at here. When a developer sticks to their idea of what the game should be, and it's a good game from the start, they generally make decisions that are at least in the best interest of the game.

Halo is an extraordinarily popular game, but if you look at the game mechanics, it's like watching Cuddy and House on Fox. Will they or won't they?! It's a mystery! Will they use dual wielding this game? Will there be recharging health or medpacks? Armor abilities or equipment? Every game changes mechanics due to fan input.

At the other end of the spectrum you have the somewhat less popular TF2, which has more than doubled in size since it was originally released, and some of that content is fan suggested! But by and large, most fan input is placed aside, in the best interest of the game! Now if Team Ninja had thought about the BEST INTEREST of the game in addition to listening to FAN INPUT, we might have ended up with a Metroid game filled with cutscenes about Samus kicking peoples asses in!

It's also not so much fan input, as that can slaughter a game as well, but quality control, for example, Bioware looked at fan comments for Mass Effect, implemented some, threw away others, and made the game better for it. Nobody should ever be of the mindset they know exactly what is right, or the only proper way to do something without outside input.

Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm glad that we can argue only to find out that we're on the same page

 

[Blimey]

Ruined? No. But Team Ninja's smelly hands stained this game. As a first-person game, Metroid was absolutely fantastic. Hands-down my favorite shooter/adventure game. It blended action, puzzles, and fun exploration in a great package. Team Ninja ditched the immersive environments and cool exploration, and exchanged it for samey-linear bullshit.

Nintendo oversaw it all and pretty much had to approve it all, so don't be blaming Team Ninja.

They had absolutely NOTHING to do with the story. NOTHING.

Did I say anything about the story? Jesus mate, read the post. I hate the gameplay. Something I can blame Team Ninja for, and will.

 

[Treblaine]

*Reasonably surmised as (I hope):
"Nintendo is living in the past by using silent protagonists"
"developers today don't use silent Protagonists"

Well on THAT point:
-Half Life
-FEAR
-Call of Duty Franchise
-Dead Space
-Far Cry 1 & 2
-Portal
-Bioshock 1 & 2
-Borderlands
-Dragon's Age (unless you include simple text responses)
-Stalker
-Medal of honor series
-Fable 1 & 2


Halo has certainly had a very quiet protagonist, along with Crysis, Killzone 2 and Arkham Asylum, really games are not at a loss with silent/quiet protagonists.


And when video game protagonist ARE given a lot of lines of dialogue more often than not it is less Metal Gear Solid codec conversations or even Max Payne graphics novel and more often like Gears of War or Assassin's Creed.

 

[Treblaine]

OoT was one of the most highly praised Zelda games Nintendo ever made, but when Twilight Princess was modeled similarly, it tanked.

There you go again making unsubstantiated statements. Twilight Princess came out the same year as Gears of War and ended up outselling it by 2008, it was one of the highest selling games of the times it was released. Only about 1 million less sales than OoT back in the 90's and considering how much smaller the Gamecube and Wii's market penetration was back in 2006 that is really saying something.

Also you use SALES as a basis of judging the QUALITY of games?!?!? It is indicative but you have to consider another way to get to the top of the charts other than being "the best" is simply to appeal to the lowest common denominator and spend less on development and ore on advertising.

At the other end of the spectrum you have the somewhat less popular TF2, which has more than doubled in size since it was originally released, and some of that content is fan suggested! But by and large, most fan input is placed aside, in the best interest of the game! Now if Team Ninja had thought about the BEST INTEREST of the game in addition to listening to FAN INPUT, we might have ended up with a Metroid game filled with cutscenes about Samus kicking peoples asses in!

"But by and large, most fan input is placed aside, in the best interest of the game"

What the hell do you mean by that?

 

[starwarsgeek]

Umm...she was BARELY characterized in the older games. Other M didn't derail her character, it characterized differently than people *assumed* she was like.

 

[Treblaine]

*snip*

Regardless of preconceived notions of what Samus Aran WAS. The way Samus Aran IS NOW is really really shit and no amount of pnfificating about the design process and perceptions is going to change that.

Shit is shit.

 

[SimuLord]

Here's the thing. If you're going to take one of the most iconic female characters in gaming and fully flesh out her personality, giving that responsibility to Team Ninja, the makers of Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball and proud designers of "jiggle physics", a bunch of folks who couldn't do any better reinforcing gaming gender stereotypes if they hired Howard Stern and Andrew Dice Clay, is NOT HOW YOU FUCKING DO IT.

Shame on everyone involved. I'm squarely on Yahtzee's side of the Yahtzee vs. Moviebob Samus Spectrum.

 

[Conceit]

Compare Samus to Naked Snake....in MGS3

Ok. Naked Snake was clearly still not standing on his own two feet in MGS3, he was introduced in that game. Compare it to other M, in which Samus has already had a lot history and saved the universe over and over. We could very well contrast the way Naked Snake is dependant to the Boss, but this was a part of Naked Snake from the beggining, whereas here it's being introduced after all the adventures samus has ever had, what Team Ninja did here was like if suddenly in MGS4 Snake started moping about his stepmother who he loved so much...but we've never heard of her.

Besides the story in Other M was just badly told, it was all about the characters telling us how they feel, and convoluted cross references about gestures, babies, mothers and the letter M. it's like every bad trope used by MGS injected into Metroid.

 

[Monk Ed]

Ok. Naked Snake was clearly still not standing on his own two feet in MGS3, he was introduced in that game. Compare it to other M, in which Samus has already had a lot history and saved the universe over and over. We could very well contrast the way Naked Snake is dependant to the Boss, but this was a part of Naked Snake from the beggining, whereas here it's being introduced after all the adventures samus has ever had, what Team Ninja did here was like if suddenly in MGS4 Snake started moping about his stepmother who he loved so much...but we've never heard of her.

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with all of this. It was indeed a badly written game, but the character of Samus who was established in it is not "ruined forever"; she's still quite a badass going by what we see, and because she's overcome her difficulties in this game I think she'll be much better in future games. Or at least, here's to hoping.

Team Ninja had nothing to do with the story by the way, it was written by Nintendo's designated Metroid series writer.

Besides the story in Other M was just badly told, it was all about the characters telling us how they feel, and convoluted cross references about gestures, babies, mothers and the letter M. it's like every bad trope used by MGS injected into Metroid.

Yep.

 

[Ethylene Glycol]

I find myself wondering whether all those people who like the way Samus was characterized in Other M have actually met a real woman.

Mind explaining what you mean by this statement?

Real women--especially in the modern day and age--are not nearly as submissive or emotionally fragile as the kind of woman Team Ninja turned Samus into. If you'd ever met one, you wouldn't need to have this explained.

 

[LeonLethality]

I find myself wondering whether all those people who like the way Samus was characterized in Other M have actually met a real woman.

Mind explaining what you mean by this statement?

Real women--especially in the modern day and age--are not nearly as submissive or emotionally fragile as the kind of woman Team Ninja turned Samus into. If you'd ever met one, you wouldn't need to have this explained.

I've met many, my oldest friend is a woman, sorry for not being that whole social outcast stereotype people like to give gamers.

Explain how Samus was being submissive please. And when you see someone close to you going out to die I'm sure anyone would get emotional, same goes for seeing someone you just killed being alive right in front of you.

Thanks for the "you've never met a woman" insult though. I think this is the first time I have ever gotten that.

 

[Ranorak]

Really guys, when did submissive became the same as following orders from a commanding officer?

She isn't submissive to her substitute daddy, she isn't submissive to a man, She's following orders from her commanding officer who happens to be her father figure.

Also, I'm surprised no one actually read the manga before. It's clearly shows a loving, insecure Samus waaaay before Other M.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

*snip*

Regardless of preconceived notions of what Samus Aran WAS. I think the way Samus Aran IS NOW is really really shit and no amount of pnfificating about the design process and perceptions is going to change that.

Shit is shit.

Fix'd.

I'd also appreciate it if you and everyone else would stop stating it like it's a fact. "Of course she's a bad character because all she does is whine, take orders and is a girly girl, wha wha wha!" How about you be the first to actually read some of the other stuff I've layed out, or are you not opinionated enough to read an actual full argument on the subject matter? Honestly, if you aren't willing to put the time to your convictions, your convictions have very few laurals, which pretty much invalidates them unless the point is obviously clear, which is isn't. Some people enjoy her characterization (not new characterozation) and someone people don't. It's called opinion. How about you flex yours and make an argument instead of spouting pure assanine bullshit like you just did to me!?

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Really guys, when did submissive became the same as following orders from a commanding officer?

She isn't submissive to her substitute daddy, she isn't submissive to a man, She's following orders from her commanding officer who happens to be her father figure.

Also, I'm surprised no one actually read the manga before. It's clearly shows a loving, insecure Samus waaaay before Other M.

Well, let's excise the manga for the moment since not a lot of people have read it. Even without it though, Samus IS being submissive as she is putting aside her pride to take orders from an authority figure. However, how is that in any way a BAD thing? It's not like Adam is treating her dirt, he's treating her with the same respect that he shows his men even if he does have to be more cautious with her gear due to her being WAY more powerful than anyone on the team.

 

[Ranorak]

Really guys, when did submissive became the same as following orders from a commanding officer?

She isn't submissive to her substitute daddy, she isn't submissive to a man, She's following orders from her commanding officer who happens to be her father figure.

Also, I'm surprised no one actually read the manga before. It's clearly shows a loving, insecure Samus waaaay before Other M.

Well, let's excise the manga for the moment since not a lot of people have read it. Even without it though, Samus IS being submissive as she is putting aside her pride to take orders from an authority figure. However, how is that in any way a BAD thing? It's not like Adam is treating her dirt, he's treating her with the same respect that he shows his men even if he does have to be more cautious with her gear due to her being WAY more powerful than anyone on the team.

I wouldn't exactly say she's putting aside her pride, in fact, in the opening sequence she says she's excited to work with Adam again. She respects his command, just as he respects her power and treats her like a member of his team. The fact that she basicly is a walking tank leads Adam to restrict her powers.

 

[Treblaine]

*snip*

Regardless of preconceived notions of what Samus Aran WAS. I think the way Samus Aran IS NOW is really really shit and no amount of pontificating about the design process and perceptions is going to change that.

Shit is shit.

Fix'd.

I'd also appreciate it if you and everyone else would stop stating it like it's a fact. "Of course she's a bad character because all she does is whine, take orders and is a girly girl, wha wha wha!" How about you be the first to actually read some of the other stuff I've layed out, or are you not opinionated enough to read an actual full argument on the subject matter? Honestly, if you aren't willing to put the time to your convictions, your convictions have very few laurals, which pretty much invalidates them unless the point is obviously clear, which is isn't. Some people enjoy her characterization (not new characterozation) and someone people don't. It's called opinion. How about you flex yours and make an argument instead of spouting pure assanine bullshit like you just did to me!?

Asinine? You don't know what that word even means. You can't even spell it.

All you got is load of fallacious arguments; supposition, downgrade statement to "mere opinion" to dismiss it and the idea that simply because I don't devote a wall-o-text to every opinion it is therefore an unreasonable one. Bullshit. Why don't you just give my opinion and everyone else's negative opinion of Other M due consideration rather than dismissing all dissenting voices.

You cannot rationalise away how bad this is, do I really need to EXPLAIN how sucky it is that you can't use your suit abilities simply because Adam hasn't SPECIFICALLY given you permission? Suit abilities that are NECESSARY for her both to do her job and to save her life.

That is beyond mere submission... that's just stupid.

Also removes to rocky balboa kind of "working my way back up from an underdog" after losing all your powers by searching them out or gaining them off defeated enemies. Nope. Just wait for twilight-obsession-like Adam to arbitrarily let you use YOUR OWN GOD DAMN POWERS!

Sheesh, it's like the game is designed to convert people to militant feminism.

Really? Is there ANY debate to the fact that Other M is just plain trash? At best it has average gameplay but the narrative framing: it's like being served a chocolate pudding carefully crafted to look like a dog turd... sure it's chocolate but it just ain't appetising in presentation, enough to make you gag.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

Asinine? You don't know what that word even means. You can't even spell it.

All you got is load of fallacious arguments; supposition, downgrade statement to "mere opinion" to dismiss it and the idea that simply because I don't devote a wall-o-text to every opinion it is therefore an unreasonable one. Bullshit. Why don't you just give my opinion and everyone else's negative opinion of Other M due consideration rather than dismissing all dissenting voices.

You cannot rationalise away how bad this is, do I really need to EXPLAIN how sucky it is that you can't use your suit abilities simply because Adam hasn't SPECIFICALLY given you permission? Suit abilities that are NECESSARY for her both to do her job and to save her life.

That is beyond mere submission... that's just stupid.

Also removes to rocky balboa kind of "working my way back up from an underdog" after losing all your powers by searching them out or gaining them off defeated enemies. Nope. Just wait for twilight-obsession-like Adam to arbitrarily let you use YOUR OWN GOD DAMN POWERS!

Sheesh, it's like the game is designed to convert people to militant feminism.

Really? Is there ANY debate to the fact that Other M is just plain trash? At best it has average gameplay but the narrative framing: it's like being served a chocolate pudding carefully crafted to look like a dog turd... sure it's chocolate but it just ain't appetising in presentation, enough to make you gag.

1. Sorry for misspelling the word. I'll be the first person to say spelling is not my forte. I also take great offense to you saying I have no idea of what the meaning of the word is. Again, that is your opinion, in which case it would be completely wrong. However, because of the fact that this is not live interaction and is also on the internet where tools to discover the proper context, use and definition of the word can be found, I unfortunately have no way to prove that I do know what it means. However, you cannot disprove this, therefore it is not fact you juvenile acting forum troll. Oh, and did I forget to mention...?

Also removes to rocky balboa kind of "working my way back up from an underdog"

"ZOHMYGOD GRAMAR ER0RZ!!! Entire discussion point invalidated." Yeah, that's how you sounded to me right then. So right back 'atcha.

2. Yes, you do need to put a valid point, hopefully in the form of a well thought out argument, because it's a debatable subject within a discussion thread. You know why people don't consider video games art? Because most people deduce that video games are either good or trash and that it should be 100% consensus once a point, most prominently the point of view being thier's, is reached. "There's no room for debate because it's not opinion, it's fact!" Again, exactly how you sound. More to the point, it's all about taste and how good Metroid's story is is subject to the viewer. So yes, all of what you put should be based on opinion, not on fact.

3. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.233898.8267856
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.233898.8271720
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.233898.8276274 These

Specifically the third link because that would be my point by point review with videos attached that go through the entire two hour movie mode and explain what's going on and put some perspective on everything. Great view if you think she's also a whiney anime girl, because it'll disprove that, too!

But I'll even give you the quick verison:
-I think it's dumb that Samus didn't get her Varia until about the end of the lava part. People make oversights and even great works of art get excused for small faults. Not saying Other M is a great work of art, but it should be excused for an oversight like that where gameplay difficulty and narrative have to jump the logic gap.

-She's working under the Galactic Federation. Y'know, the guys who monitor the law and probably gave Samus her license for bounty hunting. Did anyone ever stop to consider her weapon mods could be illegal!? Considering Super Bombs are mini-nukes and freeze guns can only be used in dire circumstances, it goes without saying that most of what Samus has is probably very risky in a "find survivors, don't blow the ship to kingdom come". She even goes as far as to mock Adam at one point when she's all alone, asking "Is that ok, Adam!?" in as sarcastic a tone as she'll put on. I believe it's just before getting the Screw Attack.

-She even states she wanted to work for Adam, under Adam's command. This isn't submissive in the sense that "oh, I'm a little girl needing a big, strong man!" People are just ignorant and choose to view it that way because it causes the biggest shitstorm. The fact is, Samus is a product of the military, and soldiers obey commands from their superior officers. Adam was and is still considered to be one of her greatest influences and closest friend. Hell yes there's plenty of reason as to why she'd follow him as a colleague, friend or surogate daughter, not as the bimbo who needs protection. I've put forth the thought of "if Adam were Eve, would she still act the same considering her direct and apparent motives?" The answer almost a resounding yes. The only reason I can't give it a definite is because it has yet to happen.

And don't bring up Fusion as a counter point because, in all honesty, she could hate taking orders because of Adam ordering her to sit back and watch him walk to his death. Really, it's all just speculation, but her hate for orders was not given a timeframe, so you can't go saying in the definite that she hated taking orders forever and always.

-People are using hyperbole on two scenes that apparently "completely ruined Samus" when the entire rest of the game is devoted to her kicking large amounts of ass, the collection of a vast list of names, while lacking kilograms worth of bubblegum. Granted, there are also counter points you can make against these arguments which makes it just that much deeper and give room for debate. Wow, a game up for debate instead of pure consensus? Who would've thunk it?

4. People complained about the rampant disregard the writers took for her missing all her power-ups at the start of every game. You can't please everyone.

5. Using Yahtzee's material doesn't make you any more correct or any cooler. Get your own jibes.

And when video game protagonist ARE given a lot of lines of dialogue more often than not it is less Metal Gear Solid codec conversations or even Max Payne graphics novel and more often like Gears of War or Assassin's Creed.

You know what? Just as an add-on, I'd like to discuss this. Particularly the bolded part. So when a man does the exact same thing as Samus, it's ok, but when a woman does it, it's sexist? Double standard much? Don't even try to pretend like Solid Snake doesn't whine about war being terrible and such. That's just about all he does after grunting and saying "Metal Gear" during his cutscenes and Codex scenes. So yeah, I'd like some feedback from anybody on this.

 

[shadow skill]

Asinine? You don't know what that word even means. You can't even spell it.

All you got is load of fallacious arguments; supposition, downgrade statement to "mere opinion" to dismiss it and the idea that simply because I don't devote a wall-o-text to every opinion it is therefore an unreasonable one. Bullshit. Why don't you just give my opinion and everyone else's negative opinion of Other M due consideration rather than dismissing all dissenting voices.

You cannot rationalise away how bad this is, do I really need to EXPLAIN how sucky it is that you can't use your suit abilities simply because Adam hasn't SPECIFICALLY given you permission? Suit abilities that are NECESSARY for her both to do her job and to save her life.

That is beyond mere submission... that's just stupid.

Also removes to rocky balboa kind of "working my way back up from an underdog" after losing all your powers by searching them out or gaining them off defeated enemies. Nope. Just wait for twilight-obsession-like Adam to arbitrarily let you use YOUR OWN GOD DAMN POWERS!

Sheesh, it's like the game is designed to convert people to militant feminism.

Really? Is there ANY debate to the fact that Other M is just plain trash? At best it has average gameplay but the narrative framing: it's like being served a chocolate pudding carefully crafted to look like a dog turd... sure it's chocolate but it just ain't appetising in presentation, enough to make you gag.

1. Sorry for misspelling the word. I'll be the first person to say spelling is not my forte. I also take great offense to you saying I have no idea of what the meaning of the word is. Again, that is your opinion, in which case it would be completely wrong. However, because of the fact that this is not live interaction and is also on the internet where tools to discover the proper context, use and definition of the word can be found, I unfortunately have no way to prove that I do know what it means. However, you cannot disprove this, therefore it is not fact you juvenile acting forum troll. Oh, and did I forget to mention...?

Also removes to rocky balboa kind of "working my way back up from an underdog"

"ZOHMYGOD GRAMAR ER0RZ!!! Entire discussion point invalidated." Yeah, that's how you sounded to me right then. So right back 'atcha.

2. Yes, you do need to put a valid point, hopefully in the form of a well thought out argument, because it's a debatable subject within a discussion thread. You know why people don't consider video games art? Because most people deduce that video games are either good or trash and that it should be 100% consensus once a point, most prominently the point of view being thier's, is reached. "There's no room for debate because it's not opinion, it's fact!" Again, exactly how you sound. More to the point, it's all about taste and how good Metroid's story is is subject to the viewer. So yes, all of what you put should be based on opinion, not on fact.

3. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.233898.8267856
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.233898.8271720
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.233898.8276274 These

Specifically the third link because that would be my point by point review with videos attached that go through the entire two hour movie mode and explain what's going on and put some perspective on everything. Great view if you think she's also a whiney anime girl, because it'll disprove that, too!

But I'll even give you the quick verison:
-I think it's dumb that Samus didn't get her Varia until about the end of the lava part. People make oversights and even great works of art get excused for small faults. Not saying Other M is a great work of art, but it should be excused for an oversight like that where gameplay difficulty and narrative have to jump the logic gap.

-She's working under the Galactic Federation. Y'know, the guys who monitor the law and probably gave Samus her license for bounty hunting. Did anyone ever stop to consider her weapon mods could be illegal!? Considering Super Bombs are mini-nukes and freeze guns can only be used in dire circumstances, it goes without saying that most of what Samus has is probably very risky in a "find survivors, don't blow the ship to kingdom come". She even goes as far as to mock Adam at one point when she's all alone, asking "Is that ok, Adam!?" in as sarcastic a tone as she'll put on. I believe it's just before getting the Screw Attack.

-She even states she wanted to work for Adam, under Adam's command. This isn't submissive in the sense that "oh, I'm a little girl needing a big, strong man!" People are just ignorant and choose to view it that way because it causes the biggest shitstorm. The fact is, Samus is a product of the military, and soldiers obey commands from their superior officers. Adam was and is still considered to be one of her greatest influences and closest friend. Hell yes there's plenty of reason as to why she'd follow him as a colleague, friend or surogate daughter, not as the bimbo who needs protection. I've put forth the thought of "if Adam were Eve, would she still act the same considering her direct and apparent motives?" The answer almost a resounding yes. The only reason I can't give it a definite is because it has yet to happen.

And don't bring up Fusion as a counter point because, in all honesty, she could hate taking orders because of Adam ordering her to sit back and watch him walk to his death. Really, it's all just speculation, but her hate for orders was not given a timeframe, so you can't go saying in the definite that she hated taking orders forever and always.

-People are using hyperbole on two scenes that apparently "completely ruined Samus" when the entire rest of the game is devoted to her kicking large amounts of ass, the collection of a vast list of names, while lacking kilograms worth of bubblegum. Granted, there are also counter points you can make against these arguments which makes it just that much deeper and give room for debate. Wow, a game up for debate instead of pure consensus? Who would've thunk it?

4. People complained about the rampant disregard the writers took for her missing all her power-ups at the start of every game. You can't please everyone.

5. Using Yahtzee's material doesn't make you any more correct or any cooler. Get your own jibes.

I've never played a Metroid game and don't own a Wii. I was wondering if you feel like there is a worthy comparison to be made with respect the fan reaction to Prince of Persia Warrior Within's Prince and fan reaction to Other M's Samus? I really enjoyed Warrior Within's Prince because he acted the way I would expect someone who hasn't been sleeping much because some apparently invulnerable monster was chasing him everywhere. He really fit in with my own reaction whenever the Dhahaka would show up at the most inopportune time. Most people did not like this Prince as they wanted the joking and relatively easy going Prince.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

I've never played a Metroid game and don't own a Wii. I was wondering if you feel like there is a worthy comparison to be made with respect the fan reaction to Prince of Persia Warrior Within's Prince and fan reaction to Other M's Samus? I really enjoyed Warrior Within's Prince because he acted the way I would expect someone who hasn't been sleeping much because some apparently invulnerable monster was chasing him everywhere. He really fit in with my own reaction whenever the Dhahaka would show up at the most inopportune time. Most people did not like this Prince as they wanted the joking and relatively easy going Prince.

I don't think there's an overabundance of comparison between the two issues. Prince was a somewhat full character. He was very one-dimensional in the fact that he was a sarcastic, juvenile delinquent that ran around cutting people up and making jibes at them. His transition into Warrior Within was certainly a sharp one and, in some light, was warrented. He was under a lot of stress and had to get really serious really fast because of the Dhahaka chasing him. On top of that, he hadn't had human contact for awhile when in Sands of Time you can pretty much assume he's a big time player inside Persia.

Drastic change, however, is different than character establishment. Samus had zero character developed aside from our preconceptions of who she was, determined through what she did. Aside from Fusion, which takes place after Other M so it's not a very good barometer for this situation, she had no dialogue or inner thought soliloquies, simply that she went around shooting aliens and was a bounty hunter. Then Other M comes along and shows everyone she's a radically different person from just shooting aliens and being a bounty hunter. She's a woman (God forbid) and a very insecure one at that. People seem to be complaining because whatever they thought about Samus has now gone out the window and are angry because they don't see an insecure, emotional female trying to scrape her wya through the galazy instead of this bloodthirsty Godess of death and destruction. I know that hyperbole right there but people don't seem to realise that putting Samus in the position of "she kicks ass, takes name and is a woman to boot!" is just as sexist as what you're portraying her to be. Her merits should not be judged upon her being woman, her merits should be judged upon her being a strong person. Being a woman is just the kicker!

I think the only real similarity that can be drawn is the reaction by the fans. All this shitstorm controversy of Samus now being the barefooted woman in the kitchen because she takes orders from a man, freezes up when she has a flashback against Ridley and cries when her best friend dies, is absolutely absurd. Marcus takes orders from Anya, so is that sexism too? No, of course not, because he's a man! Wow, how much more sexist can ya get?

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

You know what? Just as an add-on, I'd like to discuss this. Particularly the bolded part. So when a man does the exact same thing as Samus, it's ok, but when a woman does it, it's sexist? Double standard much? Don't even try to pretend like Solid Snake doesn't whine about war being terrible and such. That's just about all he does after grunting and saying "Metal Gear" during his cutscenes and Codex scenes. So yeah, I'd like some feedback from anybody on this.

I would also like to bring up Niko Bellic; he's about as far from macho protagonists like Master Chief or Marcus Fenix as you can get (well, in the West anyway). Niko is a very flawed protagonist who has legitimate failures and insecurities (though he DOES tend to rail on about his focus on vengeance). Like I said in another thread, I think developers need to take BACK their stories and characters if we're going to have better narratives in gaming.