Poll: Metroid: Other M killed Samus

[shadow skill]

Asinine? You don't know what that word even means. You can't even spell it.

All you got is load of fallacious arguments; supposition, downgrade statement to "mere opinion" to dismiss it and the idea that simply because I don't devote a wall-o-text to every opinion it is therefore an unreasonable one. Bullshit. Why don't you just give my opinion and everyone else's negative opinion of Other M due consideration rather than dismissing all dissenting voices.

You cannot rationalise away how bad this is, do I really need to EXPLAIN how sucky it is that you can't use your suit abilities simply because Adam hasn't SPECIFICALLY given you permission? Suit abilities that are NECESSARY for her both to do her job and to save her life.

That is beyond mere submission... that's just stupid.

Also removes to rocky balboa kind of "working my way back up from an underdog" after losing all your powers by searching them out or gaining them off defeated enemies. Nope. Just wait for twilight-obsession-like Adam to arbitrarily let you use YOUR OWN GOD DAMN POWERS!

Sheesh, it's like the game is designed to convert people to militant feminism.

Really? Is there ANY debate to the fact that Other M is just plain trash? At best it has average gameplay but the narrative framing: it's like being served a chocolate pudding carefully crafted to look like a dog turd... sure it's chocolate but it just ain't appetising in presentation, enough to make you gag.

1. Sorry for misspelling the word. I'll be the first person to say spelling is not my forte. I also take great offense to you saying I have no idea of what the meaning of the word is. Again, that is your opinion, in which case it would be completely wrong. However, because of the fact that this is not live interaction and is also on the internet where tools to discover the proper context, use and definition of the word can be found, I unfortunately have no way to prove that I do know what it means. However, you cannot disprove this, therefore it is not fact you juvenile acting forum troll. Oh, and did I forget to mention...?

Also removes to rocky balboa kind of "working my way back up from an underdog"

"ZOHMYGOD GRAMAR ER0RZ!!! Entire discussion point invalidated." Yeah, that's how you sounded to me right then. So right back 'atcha.

2. Yes, you do need to put a valid point, hopefully in the form of a well thought out argument, because it's a debatable subject within a discussion thread. You know why people don't consider video games art? Because most people deduce that video games are either good or trash and that it should be 100% consensus once a point, most prominently the point of view being thier's, is reached. "There's no room for debate because it's not opinion, it's fact!" Again, exactly how you sound. More to the point, it's all about taste and how good Metroid's story is is subject to the viewer. So yes, all of what you put should be based on opinion, not on fact.

3. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.233898.8267856
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.233898.8271720
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.233898.8276274 These

Specifically the third link because that would be my point by point review with videos attached that go through the entire two hour movie mode and explain what's going on and put some perspective on everything. Great view if you think she's also a whiney anime girl, because it'll disprove that, too!

But I'll even give you the quick verison:
-I think it's dumb that Samus didn't get her Varia until about the end of the lava part. People make oversights and even great works of art get excused for small faults. Not saying Other M is a great work of art, but it should be excused for an oversight like that where gameplay difficulty and narrative have to jump the logic gap.

-She's working under the Galactic Federation. Y'know, the guys who monitor the law and probably gave Samus her license for bounty hunting. Did anyone ever stop to consider her weapon mods could be illegal!? Considering Super Bombs are mini-nukes and freeze guns can only be used in dire circumstances, it goes without saying that most of what Samus has is probably very risky in a "find survivors, don't blow the ship to kingdom come". She even goes as far as to mock Adam at one point when she's all alone, asking "Is that ok, Adam!?" in as sarcastic a tone as she'll put on. I believe it's just before getting the Screw Attack.

-She even states she wanted to work for Adam, under Adam's command. This isn't submissive in the sense that "oh, I'm a little girl needing a big, strong man!" People are just ignorant and choose to view it that way because it causes the biggest shitstorm. The fact is, Samus is a product of the military, and soldiers obey commands from their superior officers. Adam was and is still considered to be one of her greatest influences and closest friend. Hell yes there's plenty of reason as to why she'd follow him as a colleague, friend or surogate daughter, not as the bimbo who needs protection. I've put forth the thought of "if Adam were Eve, would she still act the same considering her direct and apparent motives?" The answer almost a resounding yes. The only reason I can't give it a definite is because it has yet to happen.

And don't bring up Fusion as a counter point because, in all honesty, she could hate taking orders because of Adam ordering her to sit back and watch him walk to his death. Really, it's all just speculation, but her hate for orders was not given a timeframe, so you can't go saying in the definite that she hated taking orders forever and always.

-People are using hyperbole on two scenes that apparently "completely ruined Samus" when the entire rest of the game is devoted to her kicking large amounts of ass, the collection of a vast list of names, while lacking kilograms worth of bubblegum. Granted, there are also counter points you can make against these arguments which makes it just that much deeper and give room for debate. Wow, a game up for debate instead of pure consensus? Who would've thunk it?

4. People complained about the rampant disregard the writers took for her missing all her power-ups at the start of every game. You can't please everyone.

5. Using Yahtzee's material doesn't make you any more correct or any cooler. Get your own jibes.

I've never played a Metroid game and don't own a Wii. I was wondering if you feel like there is a worthy comparison to be made with respect the fan reaction to Prince of Persia Warrior Within's Prince and fan reaction to Other M's Samus? I really enjoyed Warrior Within's Prince because he acted the way I would expect someone who hasn't been sleeping much because some apparently invulnerable monster was chasing him everywhere. He really fit in with my own reaction whenever the Dhahaka would show up at the most inopportune time. Most people did not like this Prince as they wanted the joking and relatively easy going Prince.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

I've never played a Metroid game and don't own a Wii. I was wondering if you feel like there is a worthy comparison to be made with respect the fan reaction to Prince of Persia Warrior Within's Prince and fan reaction to Other M's Samus? I really enjoyed Warrior Within's Prince because he acted the way I would expect someone who hasn't been sleeping much because some apparently invulnerable monster was chasing him everywhere. He really fit in with my own reaction whenever the Dhahaka would show up at the most inopportune time. Most people did not like this Prince as they wanted the joking and relatively easy going Prince.

I don't think there's an overabundance of comparison between the two issues. Prince was a somewhat full character. He was very one-dimensional in the fact that he was a sarcastic, juvenile delinquent that ran around cutting people up and making jibes at them. His transition into Warrior Within was certainly a sharp one and, in some light, was warrented. He was under a lot of stress and had to get really serious really fast because of the Dhahaka chasing him. On top of that, he hadn't had human contact for awhile when in Sands of Time you can pretty much assume he's a big time player inside Persia.

Drastic change, however, is different than character establishment. Samus had zero character developed aside from our preconceptions of who she was, determined through what she did. Aside from Fusion, which takes place after Other M so it's not a very good barometer for this situation, she had no dialogue or inner thought soliloquies, simply that she went around shooting aliens and was a bounty hunter. Then Other M comes along and shows everyone she's a radically different person from just shooting aliens and being a bounty hunter. She's a woman (God forbid) and a very insecure one at that. People seem to be complaining because whatever they thought about Samus has now gone out the window and are angry because they don't see an insecure, emotional female trying to scrape her wya through the galazy instead of this bloodthirsty Godess of death and destruction. I know that hyperbole right there but people don't seem to realise that putting Samus in the position of "she kicks ass, takes name and is a woman to boot!" is just as sexist as what you're portraying her to be. Her merits should not be judged upon her being woman, her merits should be judged upon her being a strong person. Being a woman is just the kicker!

I think the only real similarity that can be drawn is the reaction by the fans. All this shitstorm controversy of Samus now being the barefooted woman in the kitchen because she takes orders from a man, freezes up when she has a flashback against Ridley and cries when her best friend dies, is absolutely absurd. Marcus takes orders from Anya, so is that sexism too? No, of course not, because he's a man! Wow, how much more sexist can ya get?

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

You know what? Just as an add-on, I'd like to discuss this. Particularly the bolded part. So when a man does the exact same thing as Samus, it's ok, but when a woman does it, it's sexist? Double standard much? Don't even try to pretend like Solid Snake doesn't whine about war being terrible and such. That's just about all he does after grunting and saying "Metal Gear" during his cutscenes and Codex scenes. So yeah, I'd like some feedback from anybody on this.

I would also like to bring up Niko Bellic; he's about as far from macho protagonists like Master Chief or Marcus Fenix as you can get (well, in the West anyway). Niko is a very flawed protagonist who has legitimate failures and insecurities (though he DOES tend to rail on about his focus on vengeance). Like I said in another thread, I think developers need to take BACK their stories and characters if we're going to have better narratives in gaming.

 

[Treblaine]

*snip*

(significant art deserves debate. Shit does not deserve debate... but maybe YOU do)

Your sweeping generalisations, twisted rationalisations and deceptive logic are unbearable to read and the thought of having to counter all your bullshit makes me weary.

It's the half truths I can't stand. I can't just say they are lies, I must explain your deception.

It is OBVIOUS how MGS3's Snake is so completely different from Other M's Samus.

Naked Snake was a rookie compared to The End (he never gave up, he got his ass kicked early on simply because he wasn't a good enough solider yet) and being a prequel set as early on in the series that relationship actually fits! Adam has not been mentioned nor even alluded to in the past 25 years of Metroid games. This cannot be crowbarred into the series.

That MGS3 = Other M is just one of the many deceptive rationalisations you have used. You know DAMN WELL that they are completely different, you just want to poison any real discussion with a spurious and superficial comparison. A mere diversion, to muddy the issue and avoid reaching the undeniable damning conclusion: that Other M is trash.

If anything Naked Snake and The Boss is the RIGHT way to handle a Master-student relationship while Other M is exactly the worst way.

Samus exhibiting sarcasm in private then obeying Adam anyway doesn't show her independence, it's something an oppressed housewife would mutter to herself as her asshole husband orders her to the kitchen to make a sandwich for him.

Your speculation on the weapons legality, galactic federation and military obedience is also spurious but mostly irrelevant to the fact that the game never gives those reasons, only the reason that Samus is in such fucking deferential love with Adam that she loses all personal will. Adam gives no reason, utterly arbitrary. This isn't just lazy plot writing, this is lazy game writing. Need a new power? Just have Adam allow it.

You are just rationalising and using every fallacious and underhanded debating tactic in the book. Why do I waste my precious time? In vain hopes that you will learn?

Pah. It's probably all in vain, you will probably reply with more twisted logic, deceptive comparisons and generalisations where it is not about finding the truth but distorting perspective. You remind me of Michael Moore.

 

[Monk Ed]

*snip*

(significant art deserves debate. Shit does not deserve debate... but maybe YOU do)

Your sweeping generalisations, twisted rationalisations and deceptive logic are unbearable to read and the thought of having to counter all your bullshit makes me weary.

It's the half truths I can't stand. I can't just say they are lies, I must explain your deception.

It is OBVIOUS how MGS3's Snake is so completely different from Other M's Samus.

Naked Snake was a rookie compared to The End (he never gave up, he got his ass kicked early on simply because he wasn't a good enough solider yet) and being a prequel set as early on in the series that relationship actually fits! Adam has not been mentioned nor even alluded to in the past 25 years of Metroid games. This cannot be crowbarred into the series.

That MGS3 = Other M is just one of the many deceptive rationalisations you have used. You know DAMN WELL that they are completely different, you just want to poison any real discussion with a spurious and superficial comparison. A mere diversion, to muddy the issue and avoid reaching the undeniable damning conclusion: that Other M is trash.

If anything Naked Snake and The Boss is the RIGHT way to handle a Master-student relationship while Other M is exactly the worst way.

Samus exhibiting sarcasm in private then obeying Adam anyway doesn't show her independence, it's something an oppressed housewife would mutter to herself as her asshole husband orders her to the kitchen to make a sandwich for him.

Your speculation on the weapons legality, galactic federation and military obedience is also spurious but mostly irrelevant to the fact that the game never gives those reasons, only the reason that Samus is in such fucking deferential love with Adam that she loses all personal will. Adam gives no reason, utterly arbitrary. This isn't just lazy plot writing, this is lazy game writing. Need a new power? Just have Adam allow it.

You are just rationalising and using every fallacious and underhanded debating tactic in the book. Why do I waste my precious time? In vain hopes that you will learn?

Pah. It's probably all in vain, you will probably reply with more twisted logic, deceptive comparisons and generalisations where it is not about finding the truth but distorting perspective. You remind me of Michael Moore.

I ... think you've got the wrong person there. He's not the one who compared Other M to MGS3. I am. And for someone who is apparently against the poisoning of debate, I don't know what else to call casting aspersions on another person's motivations. Let's be civil and honest here.

Now. You make a tremendous point here that I either ignored or forgot in my enthusiasm. Upon further review, yeah, the critical difference between Other M and MGS3 is that Naked Snake was a designated rookie, so the degree to which he gets owned, breaks down, mopes, etc, is more acceptable. The point I was making was that Samus is getting worse treatment for her frailties than Naked Snake despite being significantly more badass than him; the counter argument that you make clear to me here is that she was not more badass enough than Naked Snake given her prodigious experience compared to his being a rookie.

Now, to be clear, I agree that Other M's story was grossly mishandled. Even outside of the storytelling, I wish Samus had looked and sounded more mature (like she did in Smash Brothers Brawl, which is still today my favorite depiction of her), had been surrounded by more average-sized men to highlight what an amazon she really is, etc. I also wish she had been more petulant about taking orders -- or that her dislike of taking orders had at least been mentioned as in previous games.

But I don't think any of that makes any of it sexist or character-destroying. I particularly don't think the latter because now that this is all behind Samus, she'll be a much more overtly strong character in future installments.

As another poster in the other Other M topic put it so succinctly: "My opinion on the story? It wasn't sexist, character destroying or anything.

It just sucked."

Minor addendum: You say that Adam and her relationship to him had not even been alluded to in the past 25 years of Metroid games, but that's just not true. Adam was a major character -- well, a version of him -- in Metroid Fusion.

 

[Ethylene Glycol]

I find myself wondering whether all those people who like the way Samus was characterized in Other M have actually met a real woman.

Mind explaining what you mean by this statement?

Real women--especially in the modern day and age--are not nearly as submissive or emotionally fragile as the kind of woman Team Ninja turned Samus into. If you'd ever met one, you wouldn't need to have this explained.

I've met many, my oldest friend is a woman, sorry for not being that whole social outcast stereotype people like to give gamers.

No, you're an even worse stereotype. I'll leave it up to your imagination just which one you are.

Explain how Samus was being submissive please. And when you see someone close to you going out to die I'm sure anyone would get emotional, same goes for seeing someone you just killed being alive right in front of you.

There's a difference between following orders and whining. Samus' entire mantra being boiled down to "what would Adam do" is a pretty good example of how to make a character whiny and submissive. And giving the main character the only VA in the game who can't even act is just adding insult to injury.

Thanks for the "you've never met a woman" insult though. I think this is the first time I have ever gotten that.

Don't worry--I'm sure it won't be the last.

 

[McNinja]

I like how some of the first comments below it say "did she read the MANGA? (Clearly not)..."

That in itself is utterly retarded. Why in the hell would you make people read a freaking comic book in order to fully understand the story? That's be like Bioware taking half of Mass Effect's story and putting it into comic books so you wouldn't get the whole picture until you played the game AND read the books.

I have never played the games, and I don't plan on it. Metroid never appealed to me (mainly because it was on a console I never owned), and the one time I tried it I very much disliked the controls.

If anyone here knows of Benzaie from That Guy With The Glasses, he did a 5 second review of it. http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/benzaie/5-second-games/27881-ben-metroid-other-m-in-5seconds

 

[MikailCaboose]

Can I just completely ignore this game and return to my Metroid Prime?

 

[oranger]

There has always been characterization in the metroid games.
Before other M, samus had a personality, and now she's been replaced by Barbie Aran, Samus' idiot sister.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

I do beleive, my good sir, this is where I state: you're wrong!

It is OBVIOUS how MGS3's Snake is so completely different from Other M's Samus.

Woah woah woah. When did I ever say Metal Gear Solid THREE!? I beleive I directly quoted you who had said, and I quote:

And when video game protagonist ARE given a lot of lines of dialogue more often than not it is less Metal Gear Solid codec conversations or even Max Payne graphics novel and more often like Gears of War or Assassin's Creed.

So now who's turning the argument to half truths? Not I, sir.

Naked Snake was a rookie compared to The End (he never gave up, he got his ass kicked early on simply because he wasn't a good enough solider yet) and being a prequel set as early on in the series that relationship actually fits! Adam has not been mentioned nor even alluded to in the past 25 years of Metroid games. This cannot be crowbarred into the series.

Now I have no beef with Naked Snake here. I didn?t even mention Naked Snake. Wait, what? You?re suing an argument completed based on a character that was never mentioned, saying that my entire argument is based off his characterization? Yup...

You know what? Just as an add-on, I'd like to discuss this. Particularly the bolded part. So when a man does the exact same thing as Samus, it's ok, but when a woman does it, it's sexist? Double standard much? Don't even try to pretend like Solid Snake doesn't whine about war being terrible and such. That's just about all he does after grunting and saying "Metal Gear" during his cutscenes and Codex scenes. So yeah, I'd like some feedback from anybody on this.

Now I have really no issue with saying that Naked Snake is nothing like Samus. You know why? He?s not even Solid Snake, the character I was talking about! Yes, yes, he?s a clone. Whatever. Big Boss within Metal Gear Solid, the game I actually referenced, is a completely different individual and both have varied personalities. The fact is, you argued pointlessly, slandering my intelligence for that matter, when you either misread or don?t even know your subject matter!

The other fact that you seemed to neglect was the fact that Adam has been mentioned. In Metroid Fusion, the game that would follow these events, Samus actually gives him a pretty big honour by christening her ship in his name:

Despite her recent illness, Samus was not given furlough by the Federation. She was immediately issued a new Gunship with an onboard computer to serve as an aide. This computer?s personality reminded her heavily of her former Commanding Officer and so, with irony noted, she chose to name it Adam in his memory.
Sitation: http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Samus_Aran

This was mentioned in a game made eight years before Metroid: Other M, so he's clearly existed for awhile now. Pretty good reason as to why he's in the story that reveals the most character development about her, too. Just goes to show how you didn't read any of the comments posted before, nor have a good grasp of Metroid subject matter.

That MGS3 = Other M is just one of the many deceptive rationalisations you have used. You know DAMN WELL that they are completely different, you just want to poison any real discussion with a spurious and superficial comparison. A mere diversion, to muddy the issue and avoid reaching the undeniable damning conclusion: that Other M is trash

I do know they're completely different. Since when have we been talking about the games as a whole!? Stop trying to change the subject! We're talking about the lead roles within particular games. Aside from the fact that you used the wrong game, I never, ever made the comparison between Metal Gear Solid and Metroid: Other M. I made a comparison between Solid Snake and Samus Aran as characters!

If anything Naked Snake and The Boss is the RIGHT way to handle a Master-student relationship while Other M is exactly the worst way.

Considering I have absolutely zero knowledge on the subject matter of Metal Gear Solid 3, I'm going to refrain from making any sort of argument about this. It's not that I wouldn't like to, I just haven't played or watched the game full through and have no idea how their relationship went. However, Hideo Kojima is a hack, in my eyes, and I assume it went pretty poorly. Then again, people seem to eat his shit up, so hey, maybe I'm wrong. I'd lvoe for someone to buy my a PS2 as well as a copy of the game (or even lend it) and I promise I'll get back to you once I can fully understand the subject matter.

Samus exhibiting sarcasm in private then obeying Adam anyway doesn't show her independence, it's something an oppressed housewife would mutter to herself as her asshole husband orders her to the kitchen to make a sandwich for him.

Or it means she hates the idea of having to hold back because of some law put into place. If you're a commander, you answer to someone. That someone would be the Galactic Federation. It means there's some sort of policy or procedure in place, much like the restriction of freeze guns or power bombs. It means that Adam would need to follow said procedures. It means if Samus is under his command, because he's the ranking officer or official authority on the mission, she has to do what he says. This isn't a choice, this isn't emotional, this isn't even some sort of daddy complex issue, this is pure fact. In a military organisation, those who are not direct personel of said organisation are bound to their juristiction. Just because Sakamoto chose not to spell it out for you (which was another complaint about the game, so yeah lose-lose situation) doesn't mean it isn't true. there's two curcial pieces of evidence within the game that clearly prove my point to be correct. Where's your "Adam, I want to be dominated by you!" quote, Mr. "I don't except speculation!", hmm?

Your speculation on the weapons legality, galactic federation and military obedience is also spurious but mostly irrelevant to the fact that the game never gives those reasons, only the reason that Samus is in such fucking deferential love with Adam that she loses all personal will. Adam gives no reason, utterly arbitrary. This isn't just lazy plot writing, this is lazy game writing. Need a new power? Just have Adam allow it.

You're correct. It is speculation. However, it's steeped deeply in facts surrounding the nature of the speculation. As stated above, there are weapon restrictions for other characters, if short lived because of their lack of weaponry. Freeze guns are shown to be extremely powerful weapons, killing most organic creature with one shot and sevearly limiting and damaging all others. Every single soldier in that game was killed in one shot and Samus lost focus on her armour. Not even Ridley could manage to completely sever that link while crushing her. The fact that Samus owns a Freeze Shot upgrade for her cannon, as well as her power bombs which are also stated to be extremely harmful to organics, means that both are restricted to special use only. Then you look at the rest of her gear like Super Missles and you can sort of connect the dots with how legit her weapons are, aside from the plasma cannon which even Anthony needed permission to use, but she's allowed to fire willy-nilly.

I'll even go as far to say that her regular missles are frowned upon, really. Anthony had a big build-up of how they would need some sort of concentrated blast and even Samus hesitated before using them. Adam gave a pretty mean scowl, too, once the shot was fired, disapproving the action. Normally I would say that maybe this had to do more with the fact that they had bad blood, but her leaving didn't seem to be an issue throughout the game to Adam, only Samus. Also, to reinforce this idea of missle being restricted weaponry, before they even agreed upon limiting her equipment, Adam had to authorize missle use against the giant bug swarm monster. All this really just proves the point that, yes, this universe has weapon restrictions and the characters are aware of them, even Samus. This could even further be looked upon by her constant need to reaquire her Chozo technology because the Federation bans it, but now that's just wild speculation.

Now the whole argument comes back to why Samus would even listen to the Federation. Gee, I'm not sure. Maybe because they dictated every major action within the past twenty-five years!?

After becoming the most famed and capable of all Bounty Hunters, succeeding in missions everyone considered impossible, Samus was summoned by the Galactic Federation.

Samus was given yet another assignment from the Galactic Federation, which was to track down a missing brigade of Federation Marines...

Six months later, Samus was summoned to the battleship G.F.S. Olympus, in orbit with the rest of the Federation fleet above the planet Norion, receive her instructions for her next assignment.

It is known that at this point, the Galactic Federation had deemed the Metroids to be too dangerous to exist. After several failed attempts by their own troops, The Federation ordered Samus to exterminate them herself, given her long experience in dealing with the creatures.

Samus, knowing how valuable the Metroid Hatchling could be to the Federation, headed to the Ceres Space Colony, and chose to turn it over to the scientists there, who believed they could harness the infant?s power for the good of mankind.

SR388 was now free of Metroids, and so the Galactic Federation decided to send in a research party to investigate the planet. Due to her previous experience with the planet and its inhabitants, Samus was hired to serve as a guide to the researchers, to collect samples of life for the Biologic Space Laboratories research station.

Despite her recent illness, Samus was not given furlough by the Federation. She was immediately issued a new Gunship with an onboard computer to serve as an aide. This computer?s personality reminded her heavily of her former Commanding Officer and so, with irony noted, she chose to name it Adam in his memory. Samus was then sent to the BSL research station where the last batch of creatures from SR388 and the infected parts of her Power Suit were sent. She was to investigate an unexplained explosion in the Quarantine Bay.

I don't know if you noticed by the massive amount of quotes, but she does a lot of work for the Federation. She's practically married to them. However, she is still considered a civilian, as her leaving Adam's squad stripped her of her military rank. This is noted several times in the first cutscene explaining her realtionship with Adam. She said she was "a former member of the Galactic Federation Army", she "left Adam's command and started down my path a a solitary bounty hunter" and that Adam was "[her] former superior officer". So while she does get all these flashy contracts and does a lot of solo work for them (thus allowing her weapons-free mode) she is still under both the juristiction and rank of any military personel.

You are just rationalising and using every fallacious and underhanded debating tactic in the book. Why do I waste my precious time? In vain hopes that you will learn?

Pah. It's probably all in vain, you will probably reply with more twisted logic, deceptive comparisons and generalisations where it is not about finding the truth but distorting perspective. You remind me of Michael Moore.

I am rationalizing. I'm trying to bring a rational point to bare on a subject that is debatable. I'm not sure why that's wrong, but you certainly have something against rational thought.

ra-tion-al-ize
Show Spelled [rash-uh-nl-ahyz, rash-nl-ahyz] Show IPA verb, -ized, -iz-ing.
?verb (used with object)
1.
to ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but that actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious and often less creditable or agreeable causes.
2.
to remove unreasonable elements from.
3.
to make rational or conformable to reason.
4.
to treat or explain in a rational or rationalistic manner.
5.
Mathematics . to eliminate radicals from (an equation or expression): to rationalize the denominator of a fraction.
6.
Chiefly British . to reorganize and integrate (an industry).

[sarcasm]But hey, maybe you can come up with more crackpot theories on subject matter that was never mentioned. Or insult me some more. That seems to be working, right? Because you don't look like a blithering idiot now, basing your entire argument on fallacious points, or even fictional ones, for that matter. It's true, I'm just the worst debater you've ever run into and you're clearly of the superior mind. How could I ever stand up to someone who can't even take the time to read a well thoughtout argument, place quotations and source material to back his opinion up with some facts and not make tangent points that myteriously come out of no where?[/sarcasm]

And check this piece of work out...

I ... think you've got the wrong person there. He's not the one who compared Other M to MGS3. I am. And for someone who is apparently against the poisoning of debate, I don't know what else to call casting aspersions on another person's motivations. Let's be civil and honest here.

So now it comes to light that you attempted to sully my argument by using someone else's point and then putting my username as the quoted!? You're calling me the underhanded one? You're calling me the fallacious one? You dare say my logic is deceptive when you pull this shit off!?

3277 and these are the levels you stoop to?

Our debate is over.

 

[minoes]

I´ve always thought that game mechanics were the most important part of a videogame, but after reading this thread I think that playing the game isn´t nearly as important as the cutscenes (kind of an inverse Metal Gear, isn´t it?).

Also, how come respecting your father figure and being a housewife are considered improper behavior for a woman?

What would your parents say? Sorry mom you are not a remorseless killing machine ergo you suck and you are not real.

 

[Flying-Emu]

I'm currently replaying Metroid Fusion, and I'm realizing that Samus isn't the emotionless, hard, unfeeling character people remember her as. Yes, she isn't as bad as (what I've heard) Other M's Samus is like, but she does have a fairly emotional side to her. Sure she still is a badass, but she's human. However, I never really thought about it in-game as she was, to me, mostly just my avatar in the world she inhabited.

The article however seems to be a bit extreme. It "killed" Samus? Really? [sub][sub]I would have said the manga did that [/sub][/sub] One bad game made by a different developer =/= "WAH! CHARACTER IS RUINED FOREVER! WAH!" [sub] especially when said character has been largely undefined for the longest period of time [/sub]

What I would say about Other M however, is that it should be an example to not try to define Nintendo Classic types of characters (strangely, Master Chief fits this bill, and yet he's better in the books than in the games. Go figure). Everyone's Link is different, as is everyone's Mario. Sure they share certain aspects, but those are more of the skeleton of the character, which is what the player builds off of.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop for a sec. THERE'S A METROID MANGA?!

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Also, how come respecting your father figure and being a housewife are considered improper behavior for a woman?

Y'know, that's a thought has been bugging me for awhile. There shouldn't being anything wrong with Samus treating Adam with the same respect he does to her or acting in a feminine manner. I guess it's because gamers have been starved for feminine icons for too long.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

Also, how come respecting your father figure and being a housewife are considered improper behavior for a woman?

Y'know, that's a thought has been bugging me for awhile. There shouldn't being anything wrong with Samus treating Adam with the same respect he does to her or acting in a feminine manner. I guess it's because gamers have been starved for feminine icons for too long.

I don't see why she can't do both. She's a woman. She's a bounty hunter. She'll have emotions. She'll kick ass. Why do they have to be synonymous?

 

[redarmyagent]

So because "90%" of the people who replied to the article are rabid sexists, the article is wrong?

This game turned Samus into a stuttering, daddy-dependant moron. I'm surprised it didn't force her to get bare foot and BACK IN THE KITCHEN to make the space marines sammiches.

Its not even that portraying a woman as vulnerable in games is inherently anti-feminist, its that portraying a previously strong woman as a babbling sycophant is really offensive just so far as characterization in general goes.

 

[redarmyagent]

Also, how come respecting your father figure and being a housewife are considered improper behavior for a woman?

Y'know, that's a thought has been bugging me for awhile. There shouldn't being anything wrong with Samus treating Adam with the same respect he does to her or acting in a feminine manner. I guess it's because gamers have been starved for feminine icons for too long.

I don't see why she can't do both. She's a woman. She's a bounty hunter. She'll have emotions. She'll kick ass. Why do they have to be synonymous?

Um... its wrong because having a highly trained killer break down into an overly-sensative twat in the middle of combat is annoying as hell? Forget feminism, they made the character Samus--man or woman--the most hate-able character of the year.

 

[minoes]

Um... its wrong because having a highly trained killer break down into an overly-sensative twat in the middle of combat is annoying as hell? Forget feminism, they made the character Samus--man or woman--the most hate-able character of the year.

Worse than Kratos "The ultra psycho dad"?

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Also, how come respecting your father figure and being a housewife are considered improper behavior for a woman?

Y'know, that's a thought has been bugging me for awhile. There shouldn't being anything wrong with Samus treating Adam with the same respect he does to her or acting in a feminine manner. I guess it's because gamers have been starved for feminine icons for too long.

I don't see why she can't do both. She's a woman. She's a bounty hunter. She'll have emotions. She'll kick ass. Why do they have to be synonymous?

No clue, but we are GOING to need more feminine characters if gaming is to expand. The closest thing we have to this Samus so far might be the female cast of Odin Sphere or Lenneth Valkyrie.

@Minoes:

Difference between Samus and Kratos though is that Samus has never been shown to ENJOY killing.

 

[redarmyagent]

Um... its wrong because having a highly trained killer break down into an overly-sensative twat in the middle of combat is annoying as hell? Forget feminism, they made the character Samus--man or woman--the most hate-able character of the year.

Worse than Kratos "The ultra psycho dad"?

LOL ok you totally win that round.

 

[minoes]

@Minoes:

Difference between Samus and Kratos though is that Samus has never been shown to ENJOY killing.

And no one finds it weird that he is a merciless killer and an adulterer who "loves" his family.