Poll: Metroid: Other M killed Samus

[redarmyagent]

words.

Good analogy, although there seem to be not two but three camps, the third being those who wished for her to stay silent.

eeeeeexactly.

This is comparable to giving The Man with No Name of the Sergio Leone westerns a lush background story. It doesn't matter how you do it--it will never be as good as it was in the audience's mind. The mystery is what makes it good.

I have NEVER understood this ridiculous impulse to flesh out every single aspect of every single thing that there has ever been in fiction, games, etc.

 

[shadow skill]

I wonder if some of the backlash here stems from the idea that in order for a female character to be strong she has to actually deny her femininity and not display any traits that may be associated with femininity?

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I wonder if some of the backlash here stems from the idea that in order for a female character to be strong she has to actually deny her femininity and not display any traits that may be associated with femininity?

That's actually another thing we seem to be lacking in gaming, female characters who are, well, FEMININE. Every major female character is practically interchangeable with a man

 

[redarmyagent]

gah, messed up.

 

[redarmyagent]

I wonder if some of the backlash here stems from the idea that in order for a female character to be strong she has to actually deny her femininity and not display any traits that may be associated with femininity?

That's actually another thing we seem to be lacking in gaming, female characters who are, well, FEMININE. Every major female character is practically interchangeable with a man

We need more men that are feminine, too.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

To anyone saying this is just an example of Nintendo not being able to please the fanboys, it's a little more complicated than that. Yes, some fans may have asked for Samus to have more characterization or whatever. Yes, maybe those very same fans did not like that characterization in Other M.

So what?

Let's say I'm an auto mechanic. You're a dude with a car, but your car has a problem. The pump for the windshield washer fluid in your car has stopped working. You take your car to my auto shop and I promise to fix it for you. When you get your car back, you find that your car does indeed spray windshield fluid onto your windshield whenever you use the appropriate button/toggle/switch/whatever, but it's just tiny little trickle that barely even covers the bottom half of the windshield. Clearly, I did a bad job at fixing your car. Would you be upset at me? Well, you should be!

What I'm trying to get at with my analogy is that it's one thing to do what the fans ask. The other half of that, however, is doing it WELL. And while I haven't played Other M myself, I've seen all the criticism, and they all appear to agree on the points mentioned in this ign article. They botched Samus's characterization, pure and simple, and the fans have every right to be upset.

There's one flaw with your analogy: some people don't care. I for one enjoyed her character through the game and I hope Nintendo keeps chugging along with her characterization. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was any action game IP. I'm not sure if people are looking at this with rose tinted glasses, or far too much expectation or what, but there have been very few characters that have not looked one dimensional in their debut. Her character has not developed past the explaination on the instruction manual and back of the box when Metroid came out in 1986. For God's sake people, for all intents and purposes, she's a brand new character! She needs time to develop herself as an established character, not just a woman and a bounty hunter. Really, that's all you have to go on. She's a woman because she has long blonde hair and breasts and she's a bounty hunter because she kills things for money (supposedly).

Even then, I had a list of things that made Samus a well rounded character that I was able to establish while playing the game:

Samus Aran is:

-An intellectual person with amazing outside the box thinking. She puzzle solves her way through various mazes, can cross examine someone's story to find faults in them, and overall find little niche clues to uncover the truths within a secrative conspiracy.

-A caring individual. Her realtionship with Baby was certainly a paternal one and she cared for that little guy more than anything. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see much of that within Other M, but reminants of it through the beginning cutscene and her encounter with the first Metroid baby both elude to her relationship with Baby. Also, she has strong ties with both Anthony as one of her good friends and Adam as her best friend/father figure. She was emotionally impacted by both dying and certainly showed affection for both, as well as regret for not living up to what she believed she could be.

-A stone cold killer. She beat Ridley and the Queen Metroid. Nuff said.

-Strong willed individual. In the face of adversity, she rarely falters. She stands her ground for what she beleives in. Her conviction was certainly questioned within Other M, but when the chips were on the table, Samus stood her ground and did what needed to be done, regardless of risk involved. This is certainly exemplified that once Anthony took his fall, Samus felt obligated to get through Ridley, even if Anthony was most likely dead, to save him.

-An insecure woman. It's a big bad universe out there. She's alone for the most part and that really shone in Other M. Everytime she felt alone she would start to think to herself and sometimes worry or panic just a tiny bit. Being alone for as long as she has doesn't mean she's a loner, it means her business takes her away from those she cares about. This was very apparent throughout this game.

-She's not a people person. This isn't to say that she doesn't enjoy company. Clearly she liked the comradery of Anthony and the familiarity of structure that Adam represented. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean she's a huge talker. She barely has any dialogue apart from the complete strangers in this game, perfering to analyse herself than talk. A woman of few words, Samus is not the social butterfly of any group.

Is that not good enough for us as a first attempt, really? We're going to ***** and complain because we get a character that knocks our Godess off our pedestal and humanizes her for the first time ever!? Is this what we have become as a market of gamers, people who demand more for less and feel that we're entitled to it so much that everyone who doesn't deliver to our unreachable expectations should quit the business? It's a fairly short game, cutscene heavy and really has twenty-five years of waiting to fit into around two and a half hours of pure storytelling and about another eight to ten through gameplay driven narrative. It's a serise! If you don't like her now wait until the next game where they'll undoubtebly flesh her out more and if you still don't like her, don't buy the games. I'm not sure how much simpler it can get, unless you're here to actually discuss her characterization instead of going "it's shit, Sakamoto is shit, Samus is shit, shit shit shit!" with some quotes and examples to back yourself up, stop complaining because you have no argument and no real point! (Not directed at quoted, just people here in general)

 

[Monk Ed]

eeeeeexactly.

This is comparable to giving The Man with No Name of the Sergio Leone westerns a lush background story. It doesn't matter how you do it--it will never be as good as it was in the audience's mind. The mystery is what makes it good.

I have NEVER understood this ridiculous impulse to flesh out every single aspect of every single thing that there has ever been in fiction, games, etc.

If you don't understand, then let me explain the perspective. Or mine, at least. I posted this in the other Other M topic:

The thing for me about silent avatar characters is that their speechlessness builds a sense of mystery -- a mystery that begs to be solved. The less they speak, the more I want to know about them. I want their personalities to develop gradually, unfolding like a good story, working towards the payoff of becoming fully three-dimensional after sufficient buildup. But if all that build-up ultimately comes to nothing or was not really hiding anything all along -- that is, they stay silent forever -- I start getting the figurative blue-balls and eventually lose interest.

I don't think this about all silent avatars. In a game like Oblivion where the character truly is yours, it only makes sense. And in a series like Zelda where practically every game stars a whole new Link, it's not as big a deal. But someone like Samus, who has been through a dozen adventures over a quarter-century, I definitely want developed.

I just wish Other M had done it better.

As I've grown up with Samus -- literally, Metroid came out the year after I was born, and playing it is one of my first memories ever -- I've wanted to know more about her. As in really know, not just make crap up and convince myself it's the truth. The hints about her strewn throughout all the previous games only increased that desire. I'm much happier having even a poorly-directed Samus who is a person, rather than having her remain a mere object for me to project onto.

I, myself, have never liked the idea of mystery for its own sake. When I hear about people who don't want to know the secrets behind magic tricks, or who get disappointed when they learn that the Coreolus (sp?) effect is not actually responsible for which direction water swirls in when it drains, I think to myself, "What kind of damage has been inflicted upon their natural human curiosity that they'd rather live within a happy, solipsistic lie than learn the long-hidden truth about something wondrous?" Even if it's fictional.

It's not like everything needs to be fleshed out. Not every side character needs a backstory; that usually distracts more than anything. But a main character who has recurred throughout 25 years of adventures, each dropping more and more hints about her? Yes!

 

[redarmyagent]

eeeeeexactly.

words

If you don't understand, then let me explain the perspective. Or mine, at least. I posted this in the other Other M topic:

words

As I've grown up with Samus -- literally, Metroid came out the year after I was born, and playing it is one of my first memories ever -- I've wanted to know more about her. As in really know, not just make crap up and convince myself it's the truth. The hints about her strewn throughout all the previous games only increased that desire. I'm much happier having even a poorly-directed Samus who is a person, rather than having her remain a mere object for me to project onto.

I, myself, have never liked the idea of mystery for its own sake. When I hear about people who don't want to know the secrets behind magic tricks, or who get disappointed when they learn that the Coreolus (sp?) effect is not actually responsible for which direction water swirls in when it drains, I think to myself, "What kind of damage has been inflicted upon their natural human curiosity that they'd rather live within a happy, solipsistic lie than learn the long-hidden truth about something wondrous?" Even if it's fictional.

It's not like everything needs to be fleshed out. Not every side character needs a backstory; that usually distracts more than anything. But a main character who has recurred throughout 25 years of adventures, each dropping more and more hints about her? Yes!

Without being too, um, mean or something, let me pose this:

What kind of damage has been inflicted upon your natural human need to enjoy things, be engaged with them because of the wonder around them? What damage has been inflicted on your imagination that you can't fill in the gaps yourself with theories and postulations in discussion--that you have to know DEFINITIVELY what THE FACTS about this fictional character are?

 

[cannot_aim]

I agree with the article but other M hasn't killed samus.

I say they just declare the whole thing non-canon and just keep on as if that was just a bad dream.

 

[Treblaine]

*snip*

How can Samus simultaneously be a civilian (not deserving weapons) yet also subject to military command?

That is bullshit, it makes no sense and makes for a frustrating game.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

*snip*

How can Samus simultaneously be a civilian (not deserving weapons) yet also subject to military command?

That is bullshit, it makes no sense and makes for a frustrating game.

Civilians can own weapons. Civilians can also get ahold of illegal weapons. Criminals do it all the time. It's a large problem. Be informed. Also, anyone who isn't apart of the army is a civilian.

Sorry, I misundestood that and read that wrong. Samus is under the juristiction of the military because she is on military grounds. The space station is property of the Galactic Federation, thus their policing force, the Galactic Federation Army is law. It's like saying you can just go around firing your RPG on a military base even if the MPs tell you to stop.

Again, end of debate. You've lied, you've cheated, you've been hypocritical of your own statements. Your words mean nothing. Good day.

 

[Monk Ed]

Without being too, um, mean or something, let me pose this:

What kind of damage has been inflicted upon your natural human need to enjoy things, be engaged with them because of the wonder around them? What damage has been inflicted on your imagination that you can't fill in the gaps yourself with theories and postulations in discussion--that you have to know DEFINITIVELY what THE FACTS about this fictional character are?

Oh, not at all, let me tell you! Are you familiar with Evangelion, perhaps? The most inscrutable anime of all time? I'm a huge fan; its mysteries are never explicitly explained, but (with the help of the extra-textual materials which have trickled out over the years) they can be solved. They engage my imagination, create that sense of wonder, encourage me to fill in the gaps... But I'm not just chasing rainbows; sometimes I'll stumble upon something that really does feel like the answer. Sometimes, a book or game or interview will come out that even confirms it. And if it disproves it? That's awesome too! Because then one way or another I know, and knowing a long-sought truth is so much fun! I don't get disappointed when the mystery around something in Eva is dispelled -- I get elated.

Samus was always that kind of mystery to me. Far from making her my avatar, the hints of history and personality, combined with her silence, made her truly "other", alluring. I was led not to project, but to wonder: "What pains you so, Samus? Do you hunt to save the galaxy, or to get revenge? Or to run away from your problems? Are you lonely, or is the isolation therapeutic? Or both?"

For that build-up to amount to "Oh I don't know. You decide what she's really like" would be ... immensely dissatisfying.

The only time "You decide" is a sensible approach to me is when I feel like I actually do decide. Such as in RPGs where you can customize a character's name, appearance, background, etc. Projecting desired traits upon a character who is truly of my own creation is one thing, but that's not what Samus is. Samus is not "mine" or "me"; she is a companion I have journeyed alongside for lo these many years -- and now I want to learn more about her.

Addendum: I apologize for implying that you'd prefer to "live within a happy, solipsistic lie". That is in fact my gut reaction when I see someone express distaste that a mystery has been dispelled in fiction, but I also won't say it's at all a reasonable opinion. All fiction is equally false, and to claim that someone else is having WRONG BAD FUN is wrong of me.

 

[Snotnarok]

I'm surprised so many people voted no when they turned Samus, the first and basically only non-stereotypical game female into a obedient child.

Sure the orders made sense for some things like Missiles which could harm someone but the Varia suit while she's dying? Don't feed me it's a gameplay mechanic. Then say the battle with Mother Brain Overloaded that function and she has to reacquire it. I thought even the horrid voice acting would firmly plant it in the bad category but I guess I was wrong.

 

[cahtush]

well... he still got good arguments
(and he likes bioshock)

 

[samaugsch]

I've noticed how several people complain about Samus not putting on protective gear when she was going to this one really hot place (I don't even remember what it was), and in response, they have been told that she's supposed to obey every little command her superior gives because that's what a good soldier does. My response to this is: Ok, but why doesn't she say anything like, "Are you nuts? My power suit won't be able to withstand that kind of environment." and then, if he still says she has to go, reluctantly go. The fact that she doesn't even seem to have any common sense is what bothers me, making her seem more like a combat drone than a military soldier.

 

[EzraPound]

I wouldn't say "Killed" since that would imply she had a fleshed out character before. Prior to other M all we saw was brief glimpses of emotion in the prime games and in fusion, Zero Mission as well, but never anything that would define her.

This. Samus was never really fleshed out in the earlier games--all we really knew is that 1) she must've been reasonably competent inasmuch as she could ward of alien invasion after alien invasion, and 2) that she donned a bikini at the end of the NES version.

So the "feminist" Samus that's supposedly been ruined by the misogynists at Team Ninja? A product of the western critical imagination. What Team Ninja killed was fanfiction; it's reasonable to complain that they didn't portray the character well, but people should get over the charge of inconsistency.

 

[Monk Ed]

This. Samus was never really fleshed out in the earlier games--all we really knew is that 1) she must've been reasonably competent inasmuch as she could ward of alien invasion after alien invasion, and 2) that she donned a bikini at the end of the NES version.

I'd disagree that Samus was really all that undefined. I'm replaying Fusion right now -- Samus shows a lot of personality with very few lines. She's clearly defiant, says she hates taking orders, is very pragmatic and independent-thinking... Almost nothing like she is in Other M.

But that's not to say that how she is in Other M isn't justified. The entire point of Other M seems to be to explain how Samus went from that to how she is in Fusion. From the opening scene of Other M till at least the credits, she is distraught in a way she never has been in any other game, but then she seems to toughen up considerably, presumably leading to her characterization in Fusion.

And Samus's characterization in Fusion is very, very feminist. Just read some transcripts of the dialog -- she's nobody's *****.

So the "feminist" Samus that's supposedly been ruined by the misogynists at Team Ninja? A product of the western critical imagination. What Team Ninja killed was fanfiction; it's reasonable to complain that they didn't portray the character well, but people should get over the charge of inconsistency.

Team Ninja had nothing to do with the writing, is what I keep hearing.

 

[Manji187]

Ruined or no...this big attempt at characterization is garbage. Laudable end, pathetic means.

Also:

http://moonbase.rydia.net/mental/blog/gaming/metroid-other-m-the-elephant/article.html

 

[Monk Ed]

I've read that article, and I think the author misses some rather obvious counterpoints to his conclusions.

1) Adam disables Samus so that she can't stop him from sacrificing himself. It's a common enough trope -- more frequently seen in shounen series, it does feel out of place in a Metroid game.

2) Adam does answer Samus as to why he shot her. He just did it in a typically indirect Japanese way, by starting his explanation with background details ("Those metroids can't be frozen, therefore you can't stop them, therefore I ..." etc) rather than starting with the main thrust and reasoning backwards from it, which is what English-speakers are more used to.

3) Many instances the author points out of Adam being verbally "abusive" or dismissive of Samus are clearly just him being all, for the lack of a better word, tsundere. Adam's personality is a fairly common archetype: a man who expresses his guarded emotions indirectly by kind of picking on the ones he cares for but in an endearing way. (Like the main character from Kanon.)

But other than that, the author makes a convincing case -- entertainingly so, because it shows just how bad the writing is. I don't believe for an instant that Adam and Samus had an abusive relationship, but the fact that someone could so convincingly interpret it that way was worth a good laugh or two, much like a Cracked article.

But what is up with this quote?: "If the game?s creators think that there is more to the experience of being a woman than being an emotionally-driven womb with legs, the game doesn?t really seem to acknowledge it." Are you kidding me? All of the women in the story are successful career women who outshine all their male counterparts, in fields typically dominated by men, and are the main drivers and foci of the story to boot, while the men are basically expendable. As soon as I see the author write a rant about how sexist One Piece is for portraying all men as over-emotional sentimental idiots who fight each other at the drop of a hat, then we'll talk.

I mean, just look at how men are portrayed in Other M. They get picked off like flies and we're not supposed to shed a tear for them -- the women at least get to be the objects of sympathy and tragedy. They get the sympathetic spotlight, while the men as a class seem outright sinister: that evil doctor in the beginning... the evil colonel at the end... heck, all the men Samus is with except Anthony seem shady enough to credibly be the assassin. And if the women have "catastrophic failures of judgment", what about the overarching massive failure of judgment by the GF male hierarchy that is the decision to replicate metroids and space pirates in the first place?!

I just ... don't think there's a case here. Samus's portrayal may be disappointing relative to what she seemed to be built up as by previous games, but can't we just leave the sexism card at home?