Poll: "Realism" in shooters.

[Unsilenced]

There's kind of a limit to realism barring the use of neural interface and insanely powerful computers capable of simulating pretty much all of reality.

It's nice to have a few little things like ballistics or token "realistic" health systems to increase immersion, but the idea of a game being "totally realistic" is just silly.

If games were totally realistic, a lot of players would start a mission, then find out the enemy had moved out weeks ago and now they were stuck there until new orders came. Also, it would be mostly a uniform-folding sim.


OOOH SO HARDCORE!!!111!!ONEONE!1

 

[Waaghpowa]

I really hate realistic games, I prefer to have fun.

The two dont always cancel eachother out you know?

Not just that, but I get the feeling that people are either misreading or not reading the OP. Having bullets behave realistically != total realism.

 

[Racecarlock]

I say replace the regenerating soldiers with regenerating terminator robots that have wrist rocket launchers, laser eyes, and machine gun arms. That would be awesome

 

[ElPatron]

I voted depends because whilst it's fine for this game, I wouldn't want it for a game like Halo. If I'm playing as a badass superpowered space soldier I don't want to have to worry about all that stuff, I just wanna shoot alien mo'fuckas in the face.

Say what?

What difference does it make if a game uses a hitscan method or a ballistic simulator?

It would allow for more balance because the game would calculate ballistic properties and developers could use those results to prevent weapons from being too powerful or too weak.

OOOH SO HARDCORE!!!111!!ONEONE!1

Insulting people who want realism in gaming. Wow, so edgy.

snip

I'm sorry, but your point consists on pure hatred... based on ignorance.

Misjudging a WHOLE market in the FPS genre because you have never played it? I can tolerate ignorance. But insulting everyone who enjoys that kind of shooter?

What games do you play? I want to insult you too and give my opinions on that genre like they were facts.

 

[ElPatron]

I say replace the regenerating soldiers with regenerating terminator robots that have wrist rocket launchers, laser eyes, and machine gun arms. That would be awesome

Except we are talking about ballistic simulators, not realism as in "Private FNG of the 23rd Infantry Division and his adventures fighting the Russian Army"

Mr. L Jackson can be a bit rude sometimes, please excuse his potty-mouth.

 

[Unsilenced]

OOOH SO HARDCORE!!!111!!ONEONE!1

Insulting people who want realism in gaming. Wow, so edgy.

My problem isn't realism. It's the "realism=quality" mentality. Games are not fully realistic representations of real life. If they were, they'd be just as shitty and boring as real life. What adding realism does is bring a sort of familiarity to the player so they can feel more at home in the environment of the game. If things look and act somewhat like they do in real life, the experience can be more immersive. It's kind of like special effects. It's hard to pull off something serious with wax models that geyser blood when they get a paper cut, but a movie where the action hero breaks his leg on the first stunt jump and spends the rest of the movie recovering an hospital would suck.

The point is to make environments believable, to avoid stretching the suspension of disbelief. Realism for the sake of realism is, in my opinion, pointless, and has a both technical and creative limits on how far it can go.

 

[ElPatron]

If they were, they'd be just as shitty and boring as real life.

The "cinema is life without the boring parts" issue.

Doesn't happen in gaming. I think that in Red Orchestra if you jumped from a roof you'd really break your legs instead of getting a red screen. So much for the "main protagonist is crippled" argument.

It's not a good analogy. Some of the best movies ever hardly have any action - and they are a great experience. Realistic shooters are usually packed with action, because unlike movies, they require player input.

The movie Tears of The Sun is as much as enjoyable as Predator. Realism doesn't make something automatically boring. Normally in games it increases the complexity and therefore makes the game "last more" since you can just speed-run it, lets you try a multitude of strategies and many times even includes editors and quick missions. It also makes success more enjoyable but this is purely an opinion.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Em is the game supposed to be realistic(Arma, Flashpoint)? Then yes I do and it would piss me off if it didn't but if you asked me would I like realistic ballistics in Halo I would laugh and walk away.

 

[Hagi]

I think they're a tool like any other in a game designer's toolbox.

For some games you're better off using it and you'll be able to create the better game. For other games you'll end up crippling your game and ruining it.

It depends entirely on the game in question.

 

[ElPatron]

Em is the game supposed to be realistic(Arma, Flashpoint)? Then yes I do and it would piss me off if it didn't but if you asked me would I like realistic ballistics in Halo I would laugh and walk away.

Why? It would allow different weapons to fire different projectiles with different ballistic properties.

That way weapons can be balanced to never become too powerful.

I think they're a tool like any other in a game designer's toolbox.

For some games you're better off using it and you'll be able to create the better game. For other games you'll end up crippling your game and ruining it.

It depends entirely on the game in question.

How does ballistics cripple a game?

Okay, if you're introducing it into an old engine it's going to screw up the frame rate with all the calculations, but other than that I can't see any drawback compared to hitscan.

 

[Risingblade]

Would I still need to use up an entire clip to kill an enemy? I don't want realistic ballistics unless it includes realistic damage

 

[Waaghpowa]

Would I still need to use up an entire clip to kill an enemy? I don't want realistic ballistics unless it includes realistic damage

Well, it doesn't show it in the video I posted, but in my later playthroughs, it actually accounted for vital organ damage with my shots. It did a slow mo cam of a shot going straight through a German soldiers heart and another shot going through his lungs and kidney.

 

[Torrasque]

Halo is still my favorite shooter of all time, with Time Splitters 2 following close behind.
I think that says enough about what I think of "realism".

 

[ElPatron]

Would I still need to use up an entire clip to kill an enemy? I don't want realistic ballistics unless it includes realistic damage

Magazine. Clips only hold ammo "temporarily".

Halo is still my favorite shooter of all time, with Time Splitters 2 following close behind.
I think that says enough about what I think of "realism".

Okay, this thread has now officially the highest "didn't read before posting" ratio of all time. Off all time!

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Em is the game supposed to be realistic(Arma, Flashpoint)? Then yes I do and it would piss me off if it didn't but if you asked me would I like realistic ballistics in Halo I would laugh and walk away.

Why? It would allow different weapons to fire different projectiles with different ballistic properties.

That way weapons can be balanced to never become too powerful.

I think they're a tool like any other in a game designer's toolbox.

For some games you're better off using it and you'll be able to create the better game. For other games you'll end up crippling your game and ruining it.

It depends entirely on the game in question.

How does ballistics cripple a game?

Okay, if you're introducing it into an old engine it's going to screw up the frame rate with all the calculations, but other than that I can't see any drawback compared to hitscan.

Ok you want realistic ballistics in Halo? So you want to take into account penetration, moisture of the air, angle of the armour(affects penetration), shield strength, speed of bullet, degradation of bullet speed and energy as per distance travelled due to air resistance, different round types, realistic plasma burn, realistic penetration through environment and possibility for rounds to bounce. Those are just things off the top of my head. Sorry, but that has no place in a game like Halo but if want to change around how certain guns work for balance that is fine but not realism in Halo. A game about a genetically engineered Space Marine fighting against Aliens in space it just doesn't suit the setting and the tone of that game.

 

[Risingblade]

Would I still need to use up an entire clip to kill an enemy? I don't want realistic ballistics unless it includes realistic damage

Magazine. Clips only hold ammo "temporarily".

I've played ME3 too much then, damn thermal clips confusing me.

 

[RagTagBand]

I like some bits of realism in my shooters but ballistics is not one of them, mainly because I am not a trained rifleman...that and it is difficult to judge distance in 2D without any semblance of depth perception.

Some people can do it, but we have sims for those "Some" people. For most people, however, I think we should stick with "Bullet goes where I point"

Games like Sniper Elite are suited for it because realistic sniping mechanics are the entire point of the game.

 

[ElPatron]

snip

ME3 uses fictional technology, so I am not sure what they are called.

A game about a genetically engineered Space Marine fighting against Aliens in space it just doesn't suit the setting and the tone of that game.

What? Different round types? I am almost sure Halo already includes a system that allows different projectiles, otherwise every gun would do the same damage and have the same speed.

Even CoD's hitscan system has a distance drop-off on damage.

And what does the theme of the game have ANYTHING to do with the way projectiles behave?

I like some bits of realism in my shooters but ballistics is not one of them, mainly because I am not a trained rifleman...that and it is difficult to judge distance in 2D without any semblance of depth perception.

Some people can do it, but we have sims for those "Some" people. For most people, however, I think we should stick with "Bullet goes where I point"

If a rifle is zero'ed properly, it will shoot where you point at.

I don't think you have fully understood what we are talking about. Military rifles are designed so that the lowest common denominator in a society can point one.

We are talking about bullets taking time to reach a spot, having the game calculate the damage of a hit by confirming which vital organs were hit, bullets having ricochets, etc.

 

[WanderingFool]

Battlefield 3 had bullet drop. Thats about as far as I want to go with realistic bullet behavior.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

snip

ME3 uses fictional technology, so I am not sure what they are called.

A game about a genetically engineered Space Marine fighting against Aliens in space it just doesn't suit the setting and the tone of that game.

What? Different round types? I am almost sure Halo already includes a system that allows different projectiles, otherwise every gun would do the same damage and have the same speed.

Even CoD's hitscan system has a distance drop-off on damage.

And what does the theme of the game have ANYTHING to do with the way projectiles behave?

Did you even read half the variables? An arbitrary damage drop off due to distance is easy and balance-able a realistic one is not. How would you like in Halo for a shot to bounce off someone's armour because you were too far away, didn't hit at the right angle(given that they are 100% armoured) and didn't use Armoured piercing rounds rather than something like Hollow point rounds.

A round from a Needler and a round from an Assault rifle is not a different round type in this context. This is have a choice between many different types of bullets for the Assault Rifle alone.

A games theme and how it is set has a lot to do with how realistic things are and how they should behave. So in a game where you can jump higher than a person while wearing armour that is 450kg I think realism was abandoned long ago.