Poll: Security Guards V.S. 12-year old punk

[Thistlehart]

I'm a bit shocked that people are for corporal beatings. A good parent never needs to beat their child.

Anyway, I'm off to bed, I'll look at this thread in the morning.

This attitude, right here, is the problem. So many people have a difficult time seeing the difference between simple spanking (and other forms of physical discipline) and beatings.

Spanking a child is not the same as beating them. Get it through your heads, please.

If you tell a child to go to their room (or stand in the corner or some other passive-aggressive nonsense) and think about what they've done, they're only going to think about how unfair you are and how they might avoid getting in trouble next time. Only a few children respond to this treatment, the rest end up like the kid in the video: self-important twerps with no respect for authority or consequences.

 

[anthony87]

Respectively,the fact that most of you instantly react ''teach that kid a lesson! yeah!'' proves an ignorance on your part.

You simply see the child as a good for nothing punk, not examining things like socio-economic bacground etc. Often children are driven to this kind of behaviour by a poor home life or poverty,simply lacking better things to do or a way to properly express agression.

it is both ignorant and even downright mean for you to jump to the conclusion that the kid's just a punk.

If it looks like a punk, talks like a punk, and acts like a punk, it's a punk.

The kid's circumstances do not excuse his behavior. Everyone has a reason for acting out, being angry or breaking laws. That does not change the fact that they chose to do so. This kid's circumstances have absolutely nothing to do with this situation.

His circumstances have everything to do with the situation!

One can use buzzwords and slurs like ''punk'' all one wants but that doesn't obscure the fact that no one is simply born a ''punk'' but they have a variety of factors contributing to appearing as one.

It is easy to say ''Yeah,he's just a punk, let him have it!''. It is easy to file away all the ''riff-raff'' and elements of society we don't like with one neat slur.

It is hard to investigate the child's circumstances and help him to work out his feelings in a positive way. It is hard to actually think for a second and give the kid a damn chance! Be compassionate,be a human being and help the kid become a productive member of society,don't just moan and beat him. Guide with the hand, do not strike with it

Soooo....if the kid comes from some harsh circumstances then it's okay for him to do whatever the hell he wants?

 

[MrTub]

I'm a bit shocked that people are for corporal beatings. A good parent never needs to beat their child.

Anyway, I'm off to bed, I'll look at this thread in the morning.

This attitude, right here, is the problem. So many people have a difficult time seeing the difference between simple spanking (and other forms of physical discipline) and beatings.

Spanking a child is not the same as beating them. Get it through your heads, please.

If you tell a child to go to their room (or stand in the corner or some other passive-aggressive nonsense) and think about what they've done, they're only going to think about how unfair you are and how they might avoid getting in trouble next time. Only a few children respond to this treatment, the rest end up like the kid in the video: self-important twerps with no respect for authority or consequences.

That might be true in your country but in Sweden its considered abuse if you lay hands on your kid. So with our laws its actually the same.

 

[Schoengeist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOxHKOhlyi0

Another opportunity to hail the valiant security guards.

But seriously: what ticks me off is that everybody feels entitled to shout out his opinion solely based on a 5 minute-clip without any further information about what is actually going on. This is about as good as this self-contradictory "Critical Miss"-comment on the London riots. I am probably one of the older people to post on this thread so I ask myself: is this ready reaction to "authority" youthful self-hatred? Were they so successful in training you to presume the right on the side of some low-paid men in uniform?

 

[MrTub]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOxHKOhlyi0

Another opportunity to hail the valiant security guards.

But seriously: what ticks me off is that everybody feels entitled to shout out his opinion solely based on a 5 minute-clip without any further information about what is actually going on. This is about as good as this self-contradictory "Critical Miss"-comment on the London riots. I am probably one of the older people to post on this thread so I ask myself: is this ready reaction to "authority" youthful self-hatred? Were they so successful in training you to presume the right on the side of some low-paid men in uniform?

So you want the guards to do nothing and let the kids continue to risk their life?

And you want the guard to just stand there when he is being assaulted (By our laws) and the kid is yelling that he is going to murder the guard and calls him whore(which Im pretty sure is against the laws as well.) and much more while kicking the guard?

 

[MrTub]

I disagree that he had it coming, a distrust of authority is very healthy indeed.

Oh joy another ''Lol anarchist XD ANARCHY IN THE U.K.'' idiot.

Actually, no.

I do not support anarchy, but I dont believe in allowing authority figures to roll right over citizens, unfortunately, some people like yourself seem to wish for a totalitarian government that eliminates your rights.

See? I can generalize too.

May I ask what right was violated when the guard stopped the kid from risking his life?

 

[Agayek]

His circumstances have everything to do with the situation!

One can use buzzwords and slurs like ''punk'' all one wants but that doesn't obscure the fact that no one is simply born a ''punk'' but they have a variety of factors contributing to appearing as one.

It is easy to say ''Yeah,he's just a punk, let him have it!''. It is easy to file away all the ''riff-raff'' and elements of society we don't like with one neat slur.

It is hard to investigate the child's circumstances and help him to work out his feelings in a positive way. It is hard to actually think for a second and give the kid a damn chance! Be compassionate,be a human being and help the kid become a productive member of society,don't just moan and beat him. Guide with the hand, do not strike with it

Yes, he has some kind of circumstance that caused him to act like a twat.

What I'm trying to get at is that he acted like a twat. It doesn't matter why he did it. He chose to be a mouthy idiot and he was punished for it. I'm all for giving the kid a chance, but that doesn't mean absolving him of his actions. He made the choice, he must suffer the consequences of it.

The cause of his actions is, ultimately, irrelevant. There's nothing the security guard could have done about it, and there's nothing I can do about it. Honestly, the kid most likely just needs to be publicly humiliated a couple of times and he'll be fine.

Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable, no matter the reason. If the kid needs help, by all means help him, but don't you dare say that it excuses him for being a twat. Take that logic to its conclusion and everyone who's ever committed a crime is simply someone who has to "work out [their] feelings in a positive way". Circumstances driving someone to violate the social contract does not excuse them from the fact that they made the choice to do so.

 

[MrMorphine]

Respectively,the fact that most of you instantly react ''teach that kid a lesson! yeah!'' proves an ignorance on your part.

You simply see the child as a good for nothing punk, not examining things like socio-economic bacground etc. Often children are driven to this kind of behaviour by a poor home life or poverty,simply lacking better things to do or a way to properly express agression.

it is both ignorant and even downright mean for you to jump to the conclusion that the kid's just a punk.

If it looks like a punk, talks like a punk, and acts like a punk, it's a punk.

The kid's circumstances do not excuse his behavior. Everyone has a reason for acting out, being angry or breaking laws. That does not change the fact that they chose to do so. This kid's circumstances have absolutely nothing to do with this situation.

His circumstances have everything to do with the situation!

One can use buzzwords and slurs like ''punk'' all one wants but that doesn't obscure the fact that no one is simply born a ''punk'' but they have a variety of factors contributing to appearing as one.

It is easy to say ''Yeah,he's just a punk, let him have it!''. It is easy to file away all the ''riff-raff'' and elements of society we don't like with one neat slur.

It is hard to investigate the child's circumstances and help him to work out his feelings in a positive way. It is hard to actually think for a second and give the kid a damn chance! Be compassionate,be a human being and help the kid become a productive member of society,don't just moan and beat him. Guide with the hand, do not strike with it

Soooo....if the kid comes from some harsh circumstances then it's okay for him to do whatever the hell he wants?

That's not what I said.It is just like the Justice system, one should be rehabilitated and educated as to why what you did was wrong.

Perhaps it isn't as easy to identify as a method of reprimanding someone as corporal punishment but it's been proven to be more effective. We need to strive for a more compassionate society

 

[Thistlehart]

That might be true in your country but in Sweden its considered abuse if you lay hands on your kid. So with our laws its actually the same.

That's government for you. We still have silly laws on the books here in the U.S., too. Like in Texas. If two trains come to a crossing, both must stop, and neither may proceed until the other has passed.

 

[attackshark]

if you can't roll with the big dogs, stay out of the. . . someplace big dogs hang out.

i'm not good at this, damn it.

point is, would you jump out into traffic if you didn't want to get hit by a car? no. so if a big, burly guy is arresting you, you probably shouldn't aggravate him any, let alone try to fight back, unless you're ready to take a beating in return. he's old enough to know that, and if he didn't, he does now.

 

[MrTub]

That might be true in your country but in Sweden its considered abuse if you lay hands on your kid. So with our laws its actually the same.

That's government for you. We still have silly laws on the books here in the U.S., too. Like in Texas. If two trains come to a crossing, both must stop, and neither may proceed until the other has passed.

Well you might find it silly, but I find the notion that you should be allowed to slap somebody just because its your kid is pretty silly as well.

 

[AaronDemoncia]

Respectively,the fact that most of you instantly react ''teach that kid a lesson! yeah!'' proves an ignorance on your part.

You simply see the child as a good for nothing punk, not examining things like socio-economic bacground etc. Often children are driven to this kind of behaviour by a poor home life or poverty,simply lacking better things to do or a way to properly express agression.

it is both ignorant and even downright mean for you to jump to the conclusion that the kid's just a punk.

If it looks like a punk, talks like a punk, and acts like a punk, it's a punk.

The kid's circumstances do not excuse his behavior. Everyone has a reason for acting out, being angry or breaking laws. That does not change the fact that they chose to do so. This kid's circumstances have absolutely nothing to do with this situation.

His circumstances have everything to do with the situation!

One can use buzzwords and slurs like ''punk'' all one wants but that doesn't obscure the fact that no one is simply born a ''punk'' but they have a variety of factors contributing to appearing as one.

It is easy to say ''Yeah,he's just a punk, let him have it!''. It is easy to file away all the ''riff-raff'' and elements of society we don't like with one neat slur.

It is hard to investigate the child's circumstances and help him to work out his feelings in a positive way. It is hard to actually think for a second and give the kid a damn chance! Be compassionate,be a human being and help the kid become a productive member of society,don't just moan and beat him. Guide with the hand, do not strike with it

And of course its not someone elses job to ensure YOU dont do something wrong or fix YOUR life. sitting on the crutch of 'they need help' doesnt mean everyone WANTS or DISERVES it. id rather help someone who activly attempted to do AA than some random drunk off the street.

 

[Simulated Eon]

For those that don't speak Swedish, the kid and his friends are continously repeating things like:
(note:swearwords and death threats)

Spoiler

"Whore"
"I am going to fucking murder you, you fucking whore"

Also the kid's friends keep saying that he isn't fifteen ( I think that has something to do with swedish law?), but the cop says "So just because you are 12, you can do whatever you want?"

I think the guard is in the right. No one should be allowed to harass guards like this, they were tolerant enough and acted like professionals. The other kids were told to back off, and I don't see any police brutality here.

In Sweden you can be judged in court as an adult at fifteen.
Which these kids seem to interpret as "I can do whatever I want becasue I'm not 15 yet".

EDIT: Oh and I don't really see that the guard does anything wrong but I don't have all the info so...

 

[SnakeoilSage]

It's rough, but kids have to know that actions have consequences. If they don't learn to respect authority ask kids they'll never respect it as adults, and then they just turn into self-entitled jerks who expect the world to bend for them.

His parents will rage, he'll rage, but in the end he'll come out of it with a lesson that he won't forget.

 

[Lenin211]

And if you believe that the security guard should've just stood there, waggled his finger and said "Ah now, enough of that" then congratulations, your child is probably going to end up being a criminal.

Yes, because in our society the lack of corporal punishment is the main contributing factor to creating criminals.

I think that you have lost sight of the issue here. The fact is that a person was harassing a security guard violently. What if the kid had a knife? Where do you draw the line? The security guard should be able to defend himself regardless of the age of his aggressor.

 

[jthm]

No, the guard did not do the right thing. There was no reason to throw the kid down like that. Also was there no place they could've taken him, away from the public? Holding him there in the first place was a confrontation waiting to happen. Take him to the security office, or something and have his parent/guardian pick him up there.

That kid was kicking him pretty hard trying to break free while he was being detained. Continued assault is plenty of reason to throw that little punk on the ground.

 

[4173]

Respectively,the fact that most of you instantly react ''teach that kid a lesson! yeah!'' proves an ignorance on your part.

You simply see the child as a good for nothing punk, not examining things like socio-economic bacground etc. Often children are driven to this kind of behaviour by a poor home life or poverty,simply lacking better things to do or a way to properly express agression.

it is both ignorant and even downright mean for you to jump to the conclusion that the kid's just a punk.

If it looks like a punk, talks like a punk, and acts like a punk, it's a punk.

The kid's circumstances do not excuse his behavior. Everyone has a reason for acting out, being angry or breaking laws. That does not change the fact that they chose to do so. This kid's circumstances have absolutely nothing to do with this situation.

His circumstances have everything to do with the situation!

One can use buzzwords and slurs like ''punk'' all one wants but that doesn't obscure the fact that no one is simply born a ''punk'' but they have a variety of factors contributing to appearing as one.

It is easy to say ''Yeah,he's just a punk, let him have it!''. It is easy to file away all the ''riff-raff'' and elements of society we don't like with one neat slur.

It is hard to investigate the child's circumstances and help him to work out his feelings in a positive way. It is hard to actually think for a second and give the kid a damn chance! Be compassionate,be a human being and help the kid become a productive member of society,don't just moan and beat him. Guide with the hand, do not strike with it

I think it is a bit unreasonable to ask security guards to double as social workers.

 

[Thistlehart]

That might be true in your country but in Sweden its considered abuse if you lay hands on your kid. So with our laws its actually the same.

That's government for you. We still have silly laws on the books here in the U.S., too. Like in Texas. If two trains come to a crossing, both must stop, and neither may proceed until the other has passed.

Well you might find it silly, but I find the notion that you should be allowed to slap somebody just because its your kid is pretty silly as well.

I'm curious, then. How would you go about teaching a child that there are consequences to their actions? Because in my experience time out, grounding, taking something away, etc. doesn't work. What's your idea, then?