Poll: Security Guards V.S. 12-year old punk

[Agayek]

So I watched the video again, and I have to say, am I the only one who thinks this video would be awesome if played to the audio from the "Dennis the Peasant" scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail? I can totally see it now, with the kid up against the wall screaming "COME SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!"

 

[Jwyrd]

The job of a security guard is to 1) Protect the client, personnel and property, and 2) Protect the guests of the facility. This is what the guards were doing, using the least amount of force possible, given the situation. In the story that's been linked to, http://www.thelocal.se/36574/20111006/ , the kid clearly admits to behaving irresponsibly with the trains, and repeating the action after being confronted by the guards. For all the people crying, "they're just being stupid, if they hurt themselves, so what?", imagine if that did happen. The mother would, instead, be outraged that the security guards didn't do anything, and the train station would likely be hit with a huge lawsuit. They protected the client and the people. Doing their job.

When they detained the kid, again, after he had repeated what they told him not to do, he and his friends try to escalate the situation by getting in their face, hurling insults and murder threats. The guards keep the situation calm and do not escalate anything until the detained kid starts kicking at the guard's knee, which is when he was put on the ground, using minimal force. One of the other members of the kid's group rushes toward the guard, which is when the baton comes out, causing him to back off. No further action is taken until backup arrives.

These guards did exactly what they should have done; they protected the client, the people and themselves using as little force as was required. They showed great restraint and did not abuse their position. Kudos to them on a job well done.

I would love to put "^THIS" and leave it like that, and if it were not for the fact that I would be doing your post an injustice, I would.

It is not an easy thing being a security guard. Especially when dealing with children that feel that they are above everyone else, and especially when dealing with groups, or mini-mobs. The fact that the kids were video taping this proves that something was going to happen. The other kids got into the guards face and tried making something happen.

And as for the kicking the guard in the knee, it could have been the kid trying to get away. Or it could have been the kid trying to trip the guard so that he would be overbalanced and easily piled upon/attacked by the kids friends.

Most people shrug off security guards, call them rent a cops, and think very poorly of them. Often treating them like sub-humans because they are employed to be a service in many locations. And often times, that lack of respect leads to physical confrontations between those that are actively trying to do wrong and create problems and those that are tasked with keeping people out of harm and making sure things don't go terribly wrong.

If you think that most security guards have it easy, a good friend of mine was working security in a restaurant. Now, the only reason he was even there was because every now and again, it got a bit rowdy, since there was a bar tied to the place. It was a family diner, with a back room that stayed open at night for drinks after they closed down the grill. A patron was a few sheets to the wind and smacking the waitress on the backside when my friend calmly asked him to not touch the staff. Without warning, without provocation, and without a lead up of increasingly belligerent threats, the patron pulled out a gun and shot my friend in the stomach six times. He survived, but it was touch and go in the hospital and he nearly died of complications later.

When a situation can go from simply telling a kid 'stop climbing on that rail, you're going to get hurt - and if you don't stop I'll have you taken out of here' to being surrounded and potentially attacked by a group of that kids friends, it stops being about 'kids being kids' because those 'kids' were not acting like 'kids' and more 'punks fully capable of attacking and hurting others for no other reason than they feel like it'.

 

[Mjauv]

What had happened was that the kid was riding between the tram-cars which is both foolish AND dangerous. Really dangerous.

What he's saying to the guards are:
"let go of me you fucking whore"
"let go"
*groan of, probably, pain*
"let go of me you fucking whore, LET GO OFF ME!!!"
"I swear to god I'm gonna fucking murder you, you fucking whore"
*more groaning*
"fucking whore"
"you shall fucking let me go" (he's trying to give the guard an order)
"let me go" (the guard tells him no)
"you are breaking my fucking arm"
*at this point he starts kicking the guard*
"you fucking whore" (at this point, the guard says "STOP KICKING" and wrestle him to the ground)
at the ground, more groaning of pain
"enough! Ah my leg!"
"ah he [the guard] fucking hit me"
"let me go"
(the guard explains to a bypasser that the kid kicked him at about 02:30)
"well he kicked me IN THE FOOT! FUCKING WHORE!!!"
"Get off!"
"I'm not kicking! Let me go!"
(at about 03:05 he says something I can't hear exactly but I do think he says something like "back off, you oughta watch your fucking back")
at 04:20 when the other guards arrive the guards tells him that he's under arrest under PL13 (Police Law §13 which is disturbing the peace)
"what are you doing?"
"what the fuck are you laughing about?" (directed to somebody outside the picture)

the kids friends start off by telling the guards about his age and that he won't be prosecuted, they then go back and forth between insults ("fucking cunts", "assholes" and such) and claiming "he didn't do anything"

 

[MrTub]

I find this whole discussing quite disturbing, and I'm honestly wondering what video the people supporting the guard in this thread watched.

Now, I want to speak my mind, but I don't want to get drawn into the name calling I see in a lot of these posts, so I'll just tell you what I saw:

For the first two minutes, I see a very large guard holding a small child in an unnecessarily painful hold. I *can't* hold my elbow that high over my shoulder, and although a 12-year-old is going to be quite a bit more nimble, it probably still hurts. At first I assumed the kid had been shoplifting or something, and I thought it was out of line. Speculating about what may have made this called for, I thought the kid might have attacked the guard, or someone else. When I then read the kid was restrained not for something as minor as being reckless, as we all were at that age, I was amazed. The guard was bullying the kid. Hurting him for no reason, when a normal guard would have simply held on to the kid in a non-painful manner.

Meanwhile, his friends are running around being little shits, and the restrained kid is probably shouting nasty stuff too.

Then, at the 2-minute mark, there's something I clearly see very differently from most people in this thread. The kid is trying to climb out of a painful hold! Most people here claim he is kicking the guard, but it's far to slow to be kicking! And you can see the kid trying to get his arms out of the guards arm.

I could go on, but on whether the rest is appropriate hangs on your interpretation of the preceding, and this is getting too long.

I also wonder why he was just standing there, and, at the end, dragging the kid off. A security guard is only allowed to restrain people under very specific conditions, usually to wait for the police. Is that what they were doing?

The reason the fact that the kid is 12 is not so much relevant in and of itself, but because it results in this: The kid is tiny, and the guard is huge. A man that big should be able to restrain a kid that small without having to resort to violence.

But the most disturbing thing is the people saying this is good because the kid needs to "respect authority". I honestly don't know how to respond to that without pulling some form of a Godwin. In democracies we are governed by 'Rule of Law', and authority in no way keeps people from having to justify their actions. Security guards have no special privileges, and he's either be right or wrong regardless of uniform.

Oh, and in a vain attempt to prevent to black-and-whiting so prevalent in this thread: I'm not saying the kid and his friends aren't behaving like little shits. I'm not saying they shouldn't have had some proper degree of punishment. I'm saying that the guard initiated violence with the painful restraint, that I don't think the kid was kicking the guard, but trying to get out of the restraint. I think if the guard had held the kid in a normal manner from the start, there would have been no violence.

Ok, lets see it from the guard point of view. You have a minor that is calling you whore, fuck off and die, I will kill you. You also got lots of his friends around which you need to keep attention to, and then you feel the minor that you got in armlock (or whatever you want to call it) starts to kick you. Would you really think that he is just trying to get free?

And honestly what kind of people do you know if you think its normal to ride trains (aka risk your life) at age 12?

 

[Frost27]

At about 1:58 the kid appears to spit in the guard's face. The guard turns his head but doesn't retaliate, that is when the kid starts kicking him. Also, he did not hit him with the ASP. He snapped it out with a wrist flick but did not make contact. It is an odd camera angle but the apparent asp "strike" was just a deployment.

I think the guard acted in a reasonable and professional manner and he only escalated the force used to detain the kid when the kid forced the situation.

Had that been here in the states, the kid would have been either tasered or seasoned heavily with pepper spray before the cuffs even went on. Then if he struggled he would have been beaten with the baton in question.

 

[Xaryn Mar]

Maybe I'm missing something but all I saw was a Security Guard put a kid on the ground and kneel on him. They do this to anyone whose acting irrational or violent. Swearing, threats of violence, spitting, ECT are all reasons for you to have a guard pin you down.

Kneeling on a person can in some cases lead to a lifethreatening situation since you are restricting the airways of the person you are kneeling on. The guard could be charged with dangerous assault. It is as far as I am aware illegal to do in Denmark, even for the police since people have died of it.

 

[HavoK 09]

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He's twelve, guys. TWELVE! Twelve. Years. Old. I get it, children are often annoying online and it's fun seeing the assholes who ruin your multiplayer gaming experience get a beating but that still doesn't change the fact that we're talking about a child here, not an adult.

You two keep talking about common sense and how at your age you understood bla and bla but did you really? I mean here you are, at an age when you're supposed to have "common sense", condoning violence against children and you have the audacity to claim you "understand" what common sense is? Really?

and if he is 12? I have been in trouble too during that age, I had a problem at a shopping centre too and the guards spoke to me and my friends but instead of kicking the guard or acting tough we decided to lay low and avoid further problems because we were told to behave like that, if you get yourself into some shit you shouldn't struggle to get even deeper.

Violence is never the best awnser but sometimes it can be efficient enough to tell you DO NOT KICK A GUARD THAT IS THE DOUBLE OF YOU!, if that was a random thug the kid could have been even worse

 

[holy_secret]

Colleagues of mine.
I don't think they acted out of order. I would've done the same in their shoes. Fortunately, I've never had to do anything that comes close to violent.

The reason the guard pushed the kid down to the ground was because he started kicking the guard. The guard explained this a few seconds later, but the kid was denying the fact, instead choosing to scream "you hit me you hit me!".

That kid had it coming.

 

[Squeaky]

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He's twelve, guys. TWELVE! Twelve. Years. Old. I get it, children are often annoying online and it's fun seeing the assholes who ruin your multiplayer gaming experience get a beating but that still doesn't change the fact that we're talking about a child here, not an adult.

You two keep talking about common sense and how at your age you understood bla and bla but did you really? I mean here you are, at an age when you're supposed to have "common sense", condoning violence against children and you have the audacity to claim you "understand" what common sense is? Really?

Well for starts the world pritty fucked up and is becoming more and more of a nanny culture so hey if you agree people should just sit back and not do anything about punks like this getting away with murder (you let them do somthing once they'll think they can get away with it again and again) so think about the future and what this little idiot might be in 5 years and then answer this question again

 

[soulsabr]

I'm sorry but last time I checked, 12 year old's aren't adults and treating them like adults is fucking stupid and borders on actual abuse.

I do believe if that guard had treated that kid like an adult there would have been paramedics on the scene by the end of the clip.

 

[esperandote]

What had happened was that the kid was riding between the tram-cars which is both foolish AND dangerous. Really dangerous.

What he's saying to the guards are:
...

Thank you. I failed to understand what the kid did. The guard did the right thing but maybe a little bit too much. In some countries guards dont have the autority to arrest people and they would have been filed with kidnapping, wich would be stupid.

Did the guard hit the kid at 2:07?

 

[Frost27]

snip

snip

He's twelve, guys. TWELVE! Twelve. Years. Old. I get it, children are often annoying online and it's fun seeing the assholes who ruin your multiplayer gaming experience get a beating but that still doesn't change the fact that we're talking about a child here, not an adult.

You two keep talking about common sense and how at your age you understood bla and bla but did you really? I mean here you are, at an age when you're supposed to have "common sense", condoning violence against children and you have the audacity to claim you "understand" what common sense is? Really?

Won't someone think of the children?

If he can kick an enforcement officer, resist arrest, and cuss the officer like an adult, I think 12 is the perfect age to learn there are consequences for his actions. Obviously his parents have failed in this regard until now and it's time the real world he is so eager to kick sand at shows him what happens when you act like that. He earned what he got and more.
I don't know about Sweden, but kids that act like that grow up to be adults who end up either stabbed or shot.

 

[Schoengeist]

And like I said, kicking somebody is assault in Sweden and he also says he will murder the guard (which also is illegal) and he also calls the guard whore (which Im pretty sure is against the law as well)

There are lot of stupid laws against all possible things. While insulting and threatening someone is socially undesirable and in some instances punishable, it would be very hard to find someone who'd be crazy enough to indict a twelve-year old who made himself guilty while pinned against the floor.

Would you really think that he is just trying to get free?

Yeah?

While I would like to discuss the intricacies of detaining kids further, it's one in the morning where I am and I still have to write an article that I should have finished by yesterday. So I will concur with Cutlesnap and excuse myself. Good Night/Have a nice day.

 

[Mjauv]

I fail to see the point in stressing his age.
I did a lot of stupid things when I was younger. Shoplifted. Smoked cigarettes. Drank beer.
Things I did NOT do was exposing myself to life-threatening situations, resist arrest or make death-threats against security guards.

If you do that kind of stuff, then maybe, juuuust maybe, getting the treatment that kid got is what you actually need.

 

[thelonewolf266]

Well at least that kid didn't get raped with a wiimote.

I feel so unbelievably bad for laughing at that good on you.Also security guard did the right thing I hate how young people these grow up thinking they can get away with anything and do whatever they like because nobody says no to them any more.I'm only 18 so I'm not some old person that just hates kids.

 

[Jodah]

I'm always for punk ass kids getting taught a lesson so good for you Mr. Security Guard.

If I ever create a country, beating 12-year old punks will become a national sport.

Not gunna lie, I would so live there...

 

[MrTub]

And like I said, kicking somebody is assault in Sweden and he also says he will murder the guard (which also is illegal) and he also calls the guard whore (which Im pretty sure is against the law as well)

There are lot of stupid laws against all possible things. While insulting and threatening someone is socially undesirable and in some instances punishable, it would be very hard to find someone who'd be crazy enough to indict a twelve-year old who made himself guilty while pinned against the floor.

Would you really think that he is just trying to get free?

Yeah?

While I would like to discuss the intricacies of detaining kids further, it's one in the morning where I am and I still have to write an article that I should have finished by yesterday. So I will concur with Cutlesnap and excuse myself. Good Night/Have a nice day.

The fact is that he said whore, fuck off and die, I will kill you before he was on the ground.

And I think its good that death threads is against the law. So I do not think any of these laws are stupid.

 

[neurohazzard]

Okay, speaking as someone who was a security guard for a few months, I'm siding with the kid. Firstly off, the head first manner in which he took the kid down could have easily killed him. There was actually an incident here in which a police officer took someone in handcuffs down the same way and the man ended up with severe brain damage. Secondly, there was no reason to armbar the kid like that once he was already in handcuffs. Twisting the shoulder up like that is extremely painful, and once someones cuffed it's completely unnecessary. I'm sorry, but if you can't handle a handcuffed 12 year old without resorting to sadism, you have NO place being a security guard, or being in any position of power for that matter.

 

[Cutlesnap]

Okay, speaking as someone who was a security guard for a few months, I'm siding with the kid. Firstly off, the head first manner in which he took the kid down could have easily killed him. There was actually an incident here in which a police officer took someone in handcuffs down the same way and the man ended up with severe brain damage. Secondly, there was no reason to armbar the kid like that once he was already in handcuffs. Twisting the shoulder up like that is extremely painful, and once someones cuffed it's completely unnecessary. I'm sorry, but if you can't handle a handcuffed 12 year old without resorting to sadism, you have NO place being a security guard, or being in any position of power for that matter.

Thank you for restoring some of my faith in mankind.

I hope everyone read this man's post, because I think the most important facts in this clip are being glossed over.

 

[sivlin]

EVERYONE: Just because someone is young doesn't mean that they can't bring harm to someone. People seem to think just because you are younger that you shouldn't be held partially accountable for your actions. Regardless of age, if you are a threat to others you need to be restrained. The kid was trying to get away from the guard - the guard made sure he could not. The take down might have been a little forceful, but when are take downs ever not?