I didn't know that beforehand, all I knew was this was a case of some kid supposedly being oppressed by some guards. I don't speak swedish, so I had to go simply by the actions taken. Perhaps the OP should have provided a little more backstory to this, such as WHY this was happening? Now that I know why they were doing this, it makes a lot more sense and those kids are lucky their parents didn't smack em upside their heads for being stupid little shits.Agayek said:
Poll: Security Guards V.S. 12-year old punk
- Thread starter Shycte
- Start date
Kinda hard to know the context as we don't really know what he was being held for but it didn't look like particularly excessive force to me.
I'll presume the little shit was trying to steal something and security were keeping him in place until the real police turn up then they can drive him home to his parents and no salty liquorice for a fortnight. (or whatever it is Swedish parents do to punish kids)
The security guy is pretty calm, but once the kid starts kicking at his leg in an attempt to escape (which is just about the only way a child that size is going to cause real damage to a large man without targeting his eyes throat or groin) the guard takes him to the ground pretty gently and draws his baton to stop the kid's friends getting any ideas.
OP, is this about right?
I'll presume the little shit was trying to steal something and security were keeping him in place until the real police turn up then they can drive him home to his parents and no salty liquorice for a fortnight. (or whatever it is Swedish parents do to punish kids)
The security guy is pretty calm, but once the kid starts kicking at his leg in an attempt to escape (which is just about the only way a child that size is going to cause real damage to a large man without targeting his eyes throat or groin) the guard takes him to the ground pretty gently and draws his baton to stop the kid's friends getting any ideas.
OP, is this about right?
having read what the kid did to get in trouble and what was said between the combatants, the young man has lost the sympathy I had for him. But I still can't find myself siding with the guard and I think both parties need some lessons in restraint.Agayek said:
Kid deserved it. Guard didn't even do anything. Fucking stupid kids and stupid sensationalist newspapers. Someday I'll pass on from this world, and it's stupid fucking overreactions to innocuous situations like this that will make me not regret I'm leaving.
I'm sure the kid in question is a snot nosed little runt who thought he'd score some "badass points" by sticking it up to "The Man". It's the same here in Finland.
Then again, fat underpaid police academy drop-outs who're spoiling for a chance to use the submission moves they learned and to wave their little batons around, be it a little kid or a drunk old man, are also something Finland has in common with Sweden.
Having respect for people and the proper authorities is one thing, getting thrown around by an overzealous mallcop is another.
My opinion: Kid had it coming, security used more force than necessary.
Then again, fat underpaid police academy drop-outs who're spoiling for a chance to use the submission moves they learned and to wave their little batons around, be it a little kid or a drunk old man, are also something Finland has in common with Sweden.
Having respect for people and the proper authorities is one thing, getting thrown around by an overzealous mallcop is another.
My opinion: Kid had it coming, security used more force than necessary.
As a former security guard I see nothing wrong in this action.
As a Security Guard you are legally allowed the "one up" rule.
Here are the basics:
There is no-one around but the client hires a Security Guard to Keep it that way. (Presence)
Someone Turns up that shouldn't be there, so the Security Guard tells them to go away. ( Voice)
The person tells them Fuck off, so the guard goes over and grabs the person to drag them away ( open hand ).
The person struggles / wrestles with the guard, guard takes out Baton ( closed hand ) or in this case handcuffs.
Person picks up a piece of wood, Guard shoots them, typically in the leg. ( non lethal Force )
Person shoots at guard, guard shoots them dead ( lethal force )
at least that is the law here in Australia.
As a Security Guard you are legally allowed the "one up" rule.
Here are the basics:
There is no-one around but the client hires a Security Guard to Keep it that way. (Presence)
Someone Turns up that shouldn't be there, so the Security Guard tells them to go away. ( Voice)
The person tells them Fuck off, so the guard goes over and grabs the person to drag them away ( open hand ).
The person struggles / wrestles with the guard, guard takes out Baton ( closed hand ) or in this case handcuffs.
Person picks up a piece of wood, Guard shoots them, typically in the leg. ( non lethal Force )
Person shoots at guard, guard shoots them dead ( lethal force )
at least that is the law here in Australia.
People are arguing if they were heavy handed in putting a kid to the floor and drawing a stick so the rest of them backed the fuck off?
What exactly is wrong with that? He didn't hit him as far as I could see, he didn't hurt him and the kid was being an absolute twat, what with the kicking and the death threats.
So yes, this guard did the right thing.
What exactly is wrong with that? He didn't hit him as far as I could see, he didn't hurt him and the kid was being an absolute twat, what with the kicking and the death threats.
So yes, this guard did the right thing.
As far as i can tell, this is completely reasonable behavior from the guard. see what that kid does there with his knee against the wall and his foot against the guards knee? that right there is leverage, and can easily multiply the strength of even the smallest child to knee breaking force. go ahead, try doing that same thing with your own knee against, say, your computer desk. you will find that shoving the desk from against the wall moves it a lot quicker and easier than if you just tried to push it.
People also seem to underestimate the strength of a 12 year old. kids are tough, and they don't have a firm grasp on muscle restraint.
edit: i'm 19 now, and in grade 7 could bench about 90-100 lbs. in gym class when i was about 100 lbs. myself.
People also seem to underestimate the strength of a 12 year old. kids are tough, and they don't have a firm grasp on muscle restraint.
edit: i'm 19 now, and in grade 7 could bench about 90-100 lbs. in gym class when i was about 100 lbs. myself.
The fact that this kid is twelve doesn't matter. I was twelve once. I didn't do stupid shit like he did. Some kids at that age just want to act tough, are hitting puberty, aren't in control of themselves, etc. Some act better than others...
However, if there is one thing I want to point out...is that...well...
Where is the part when the security guard abuses the kid?
However, if there is one thing I want to point out...is that...well...
Where is the part when the security guard abuses the kid?
The kid obviously was causing trouble, it doesn't matter is he is 8 or 80 if you did something wrong you are punished, trying to escape leads you to getting restrained. Kid these days have no respect for authority and I personally think more guards should crack down like this. They were threatened and acted correctly with professionalism.
He was kicking the back of the guards leg, given he was already being held. Of course, here's the opportunity for the little punk to be taught a little respect and humility. Maybe now he will grow up instead of acting like an immature brat.evilneko said:
So what did the kid do exactly? That video starts after he's already been caught and cuffed. Saying, "He had it coming" is downright stupid if we don't know what he did in the first place.
As for what the video does show, I'd say the guard was being reasonable. He didn't hurt the kid or use excessive force. Although if he hit him with the baton (hard to tell from the video) then he should lose his job, that's a step too far.
As for what the video does show, I'd say the guard was being reasonable. He didn't hurt the kid or use excessive force. Although if he hit him with the baton (hard to tell from the video) then he should lose his job, that's a step too far.
The kid got what was coming to him.
I swear people these days have no respect for authority whatsoever!
Not sure if it was entirely necessary but that's what you get for picking a fight with security personal.
He can blame no one but himself for this.
I swear people these days have no respect for authority whatsoever!
Not sure if it was entirely necessary but that's what you get for picking a fight with security personal.
He can blame no one but himself for this.
More force than necessary? The kid wasn't hurt--just humiliated. He got thrown (and I use the word lightly) to the ground, and he was being a little bastard. When I was a kid I got into much worse scrapes than that on my bike. His parents obviously failed to teach him respect, so he's gotta learn it somehow.JdaS said:
It's not like he was tazed or beaten with a nightstick; he was restrained after kicking & screaming at the guard. I hope the little shit learned a lesson, but somehow I doubt he did.
Three years ago, at the campground my family used to camp at, a 13 year old threatened my little brother (6) with a bowie knife because my brother had the nerve to stick up for a little girl (5) that the kid was bullying, and I beat him up and down the campground for it(I was 16 at the time). Kids these days can be just as fucked up as adults, and I, for one, believe this kid deserved what he got. The security guard didn't lay into him, I doubt he was even hurting the kid much, he just had him in an uncomfortable position he couldn't get out of, to show him that being a little prick has consequences.AndyFromMonday said:
