Poll: The Coolest/Deadliest Warrior

[FROGGEman2]

Spartans. They're the only ones who actually live up to the hype.

Oh, Vikings are cool too, but... not as cool as Spartans.

a single spartan wasn't that much of a threat to any of the warriors in the poll. It was the Phalanx that made them so effective.

Alexander the Great was the one who invented the phalanx. He was Macedonian. The Spartans didn't really use it.

 

[Android2137]

Technology tends to be a big advantage, you know.

 

[tkioz]

A warrior will beat a soldier, a dozen warriors will give a dozen soldiers a decent fight, but as you scale up more and more the soldier will win, even against overwhelming odds.

I'm not talking about equipment, I'm talking about mindset. The soldiers of Rome handed massive hordes of warriors their heads over and over again, even out numbered something incredible (see any number of battles in history).

Team work, discipline, order, and training will beat any amount of "honour" and raw fury.

Oh and for the people who say "guns are for cowards" go stick your head in an oven please, if you're fighting fair you're doing it wrong.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Yes I know, I'm an idealist. And no, I don't mean to say modern soldiers are cowards etc., I mean they can only work with what they are given and trained for right? I just think the methods are... well maybe "cowardly" and "weak" are the wrong choice of words; it just doesn't seem very warrior-like to me to pick off your enemy from 50+ yards away.

Yes, but it takes way more balls just to step on a battlefield seeing as threats are more often than not, unseen until they are already on top of you. Aircraft, snipers, drones, ect. Attacks are no longer as straight forward as people running at one another with swords.

 

[ZehGeek]

For the older warriers, I'd go with the Spartans. For nowadays, I'd say eaither the Green Berets or Spetznaz. Both hardcore, both spec ops, both kickass, and deadly.

 

[tkioz]

Deadliest would be modren soilder. Coolest is defintely the Spartan. It doesnt get much more bad ass than holding off a quarter million persians with 300 troops.

Don't use movies as historical resources, while the Battle of Thermopylae is one of the most impressive in history, it wasn't just 300 Spartans at the end, everyone forgets the Thespians, Thebans, and others who were there at the end, who died alongside the "heros" of the story. The real reason the battle of Thermopylae is considered so great is it was masterful use of terrain to hold off a numerically superior force.

 

[OutcastBOS]

Vikings...They had beards, big-ass axes and hammers and swords, and

they are the only ones who put forth the effort to be fucking terrifying what with the murder/rape/pillage trifecta that had the entire coast of Europe shitting themselves every time a longboat was seen on the horizon.

 

[Alex_P]

Alexander the Great was the one who invented the phalanx. He was Macedonian. The Spartans didn't really use it.

Nope: the Greeks had the phalanx since the 7th or 8th century BCE, long before Alexander.

Alexander's father Phillip II laid the foundation for what would be his army, introducing the sarissa, a longer spear that gave Macedonians a decisive advantage over other phalanx-style infantry, as well as combined-arms tactics, hardcore training, and logistical efficiency. Alexander's tactical innovations mainly involved pinpoint cavalry charges.

-- Alex

 

[Gingerman]

Style: The Samurai.

I love me some bushi. I hate the fanfiction that passes for fact about bushi/samurai, though. To whit...

born the a society where killing was an art

Unlike the rest of the world? All societies with an elite warrior class make a huge deal out of combat training and technique. I'll give historical bushi massive style points for death poems, but it's important to remember that a lot of our tropes about samurai come from shit that samurai did after they no longer had any real battles to fight -- the pointless wannabe wanking of an idle elite in its decadent sunset, not the exploits of real soldiers.

Well considering that ALL that a samurai did was either train for war or be in war until they retired, I would consider them a bit more into it than other societies. To a samurai, war was everything. Hell, they thought that dying in battle was the ultimate glory. They just don't know how to fight, they hunger for it. I know that other societies had their own battle-crazed baddies, but none had the crazy single-mindedness that a samurai had in battle.

a samurai know war in all it's forms

Except, you know, truly heavy armor or pretty much any kind of hand-held shield. Those are some pretty big oversights.

I'll give you this, but the samurai never had to go up against heavy armor, as their entire society valued speed over protection due to the "glory in death" thought patterns. I personally argee on the speed, as the heavier the armor, the harder it is to move around in it. Dressed up in full plate mail will weight upwards of eighty pounds, not including any weaponry you might want to carry. I don't know about you, but battling for more than ten minutes in that kind of gear would leave me completely exhausted, and I'm pretty fit.

the The katana both light and fast, could cleave through 3 people in less than a tenth of a second

Yeah, great numbers someone made up. Or maybe they came out of watching a video of a dude cutting up tatami mats -- real combat doesn't involve some naked guys lining up next to each other to be cut down, though
You don't quite "cleave" with a katana or tachi, anyway, in the sense of hewing into something straight-on. The technique is closer to what's called a "draw cut", using a lateral motion of the blade across the surface being cut to slice into it rather than relying on the energy of the swing to chisel through it.

Figure of speech dude. I know that a katana doesn't cleave, but the way it can slice through an enemy, it certainly looks like it does. Considering it's weight, that blade can be whipped around at some pretty ridiculous speeds. Heck, there's an entire battle style built around getting the first swing in faster. Oh, and it ain't tatami mats. I saw the guy go through 3 pigs, which means that it has to go through the spinal column, and bone is a whole lot tougher than the leather armor that most troops wore.

yet was strong enough to survive hits with much heavier weapons due to it's ability to bend slightly.

Japanese blades aren't uniquely more durable than other weaponry. Hard impacts tend to warp or notch the blade. Japanese martial arts explicitly teach you to whack the back of an opponent's sword if you're trying to damage it. Folks love to wax poetic about the fine craftsmanship while totally ignoring the painstaking maintenance that was lavished on quality nihonto -- the swords don't actually stay awesome all by themselves, you guys.

Oh I know that maintenance is a big issue, though the samurai did consider the blade their life, And considering how long it took for a blade to be built in Japan (up to TWO MONTHS!), weapon quality was pretty much paramount. Also, no swordsman in any society would let the actual blade edge to be hit against a weapon. standard practice would be to catch and deflect along the side of the blade, so the full force doesn't get transferred into the blade.

And should the enemy be armored with plate- or chain-mail, the katana could be used to pierce as well.

Just being able to thrust is insufficient. Effectively fighting an opponent in full harness pretty much demands a purpose-built sword. Nihonto were never designed for this purpose. Longsword techniques against plate generally revolve around half-swording to increase how much force you can put into your strike; that's not the kind of thing you can do with a katana.

The katana wasn't designed to pierce, but it certainly was capable of it. As the samurai is usually lighter armored than a knight, he'll aim for the chinks in the plate to bring his target down. Even a knight with full armor will have chinks, and though chainmail can be used to cover those hole in the defense, it is only designed against slices, so [strong]any[/strong] weapon that's stabbing towards that ***** can cause damage. All you need is a single well placed stab to bring the knight down to the ground, and by then it's too late for him.


*aside* man we really picked apart each other's arguments, didn't we?

I'll answer these as they come

1)Knights began training about the age of 10 so bullshit on the most well trained. Battles were also a area to gain great honour and chiviery which knights generally wanted so they could gain more land etc.

2) Knights armor weighed about 60 lbs and was not hard to move about in, a knight was trained to move quickly in full battle dress (that includes getting up from getting knocked over). The armor that you are thinking of is the kind they used for jousting tournaments which was VERY heavy but added alot of protection but not so good for actual real combat.

3) The reason it took 2 months for their smiths to make one blade is because in japan they had sand iron a very brittle and poor kind of iron so if they didn't spend all that time folding it would just snap if any force was acting apon it.

4) A katana wouldn't be able to do much against chain mail never mind plate. Both were designed to resist slashing weapons (In a American tv show they put chainmail and a katana up against each other, the katana only nicked two of the chains, I think it was called deadlist warrior cant remember) Although thrusting would be good against the spots the plate doesn't cover but I'm guessing that would make it quite difficult.

I'm starting to wonder why I make these posts even if I convice you that samuri aren't the best fighters in the world they're still will be another legion if anime fans who will take you're place but meh at least I can say I tried

 

[regallmighty]

Viking!!!!!!!! just becasue they are superbadassssssssss

 

[The Heik]

Style: The Samurai.

I love me some bushi. I hate the fanfiction that passes for fact about bushi/samurai, though. To whit...

born the a society where killing was an art

Unlike the rest of the world? All societies with an elite warrior class make a huge deal out of combat training and technique. I'll give historical bushi massive style points for death poems, but it's important to remember that a lot of our tropes about samurai come from shit that samurai did after they no longer had any real battles to fight -- the pointless wannabe wanking of an idle elite in its decadent sunset, not the exploits of real soldiers.

Well considering that ALL that a samurai did was either train for war or be in war until they retired, I would consider them a bit more into it than other societies. To a samurai, war was everything. Hell, they thought that dying in battle was the ultimate glory. They just don't know how to fight, they hunger for it. I know that other societies had their own battle-crazed baddies, but none had the crazy single-mindedness that a samurai had in battle.

a samurai know war in all it's forms

Except, you know, truly heavy armor or pretty much any kind of hand-held shield. Those are some pretty big oversights.

I'll give you this, but the samurai never had to go up against heavy armor, as their entire society valued speed over protection due to the "glory in death" thought patterns. I personally argee on the speed, as the heavier the armor, the harder it is to move around in it. Dressed up in full plate mail will weight upwards of eighty pounds, not including any weaponry you might want to carry. I don't know about you, but battling for more than ten minutes in that kind of gear would leave me completely exhausted, and I'm pretty fit.

the The katana both light and fast, could cleave through 3 people in less than a tenth of a second

Yeah, great numbers someone made up. Or maybe they came out of watching a video of a dude cutting up tatami mats -- real combat doesn't involve some naked guys lining up next to each other to be cut down, though
You don't quite "cleave" with a katana or tachi, anyway, in the sense of hewing into something straight-on. The technique is closer to what's called a "draw cut", using a lateral motion of the blade across the surface being cut to slice into it rather than relying on the energy of the swing to chisel through it.

Figure of speech dude. I know that a katana doesn't cleave, but the way it can slice through an enemy, it certainly looks like it does. Considering it's weight, that blade can be whipped around at some pretty ridiculous speeds. Heck, there's an entire battle style built around getting the first swing in faster. Oh, and it ain't tatami mats. I saw the guy go through 3 pigs, which means that it has to go through the spinal column, and bone is a whole lot tougher than the leather armor that most troops wore.

yet was strong enough to survive hits with much heavier weapons due to it's ability to bend slightly.

Japanese blades aren't uniquely more durable than other weaponry. Hard impacts tend to warp or notch the blade. Japanese martial arts explicitly teach you to whack the back of an opponent's sword if you're trying to damage it. Folks love to wax poetic about the fine craftsmanship while totally ignoring the painstaking maintenance that was lavished on quality nihonto -- the swords don't actually stay awesome all by themselves, you guys.

Oh I know that maintenance is a big issue, though the samurai did consider the blade their life, And considering how long it took for a blade to be built in Japan (up to TWO MONTHS!), weapon quality was pretty much paramount. Also, no swordsman in any society would let the actual blade edge to be hit against a weapon. standard practice would be to catch and deflect along the side of the blade, so the full force doesn't get transferred into the blade.

And should the enemy be armored with plate- or chain-mail, the katana could be used to pierce as well.

Just being able to thrust is insufficient. Effectively fighting an opponent in full harness pretty much demands a purpose-built sword. Nihonto were never designed for this purpose. Longsword techniques against plate generally revolve around half-swording to increase how much force you can put into your strike; that's not the kind of thing you can do with a katana.

The katana wasn't designed to pierce, but it certainly was capable of it. As the samurai is usually lighter armored than a knight, he'll aim for the chinks in the plate to bring his target down. Even a knight with full armor will have chinks, and though chainmail can be used to cover those hole in the defense, it is only designed against slices, so [strong]any[/strong] weapon that's stabbing towards that ***** can cause damage. All you need is a single well placed stab to bring the knight down to the ground, and by then it's too late for him.


*aside* man we really picked apart each other's arguments, didn't we?

I'll answer these as they come

1)Knights began training about the age of 10 so bullshit on the most well trained. Battles were also a area to gain great honour and chiviery which knights generally wanted so they could gain more land etc.

2) Knights armor weighed about 60 lbs and was not hard to move about in, a knight was trained to move quickly in full battle dress (that includes getting up from getting knocked over). The armor that you are thinking of is the kind they used for jousting tournaments which was VERY heavy but added alot of protection but not so good for actual real combat.

3) The reason it took 2 months for their smiths to make one blade is because in japan they had sand iron a very brittle and poor kind of iron so if they didn't spend all that time folding it would just snap if any force was acting apon it.

4) A katana wouldn't be able to do much against chain mail never mind plate. Both were designed to resist slashing weapons (In a American tv show they put chainmail and a katana up against each other, the katana only nicked two of the chains, I think it was called deadlist warrior cant remember) Although thrusting would be good against the spots the plate doesn't cover but I'm guessing that would make it quite difficult.

I'm starting to wonder why I make these posts even if I convice you that samuri aren't the best fighters in the world they're still will be another legion if anime fans who will take you're place but meh at least I can say I tried

Wait, didn't you already arhue about these points yesterday?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.179342.5231704

And let me render all this back and forth meaningless by stating that I never said that the samurai were the best (though they sure are awesome) just the most stylish. For deadliest I would still say a modern soldier, as a single well trained platoon can take on a whole army of the swords and arrows variety. And they have airstrikes

/discussion

edit: BTW, have you noticed that we've taken up half of this page with this discussion?

 

[Darchrow]

You can have your swords with your fancy armor and shield and years of dedicated training in close quarter dueling. I'll take an AA-12 and point it in the general direction of something I want dead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c

It fires exploding shells at 200 rpm. THAT IS A SPACE MARINE BOLTER!! Target's don't die, they disintegrate. It will be the shotgun of our military in the next few years.

Oh, and if that doesn't work, there's always one of these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m225CyqeEAs&feature=related

lol Ever since I saw that documentary on the AA12 it has to be my favorite gun since, always been a fan of shotguns but this is just miles ahead of it ^^, plus it makes a very nice firing sound. Now I sound like a gun raving maniac, sadly since its for military purposes the possibility of getting one is very low indeed, so you don't have to worry about a crazy Thai person running around with an AA12.

 

[Guttural Engagement]

Vikings, for sure. They were brutality in it's purest form - and even if they died in battle; they still won. So that in turn spurred them on to become the most brutal, merciless, malicifent warriors to ever have existed.

Spartans are cool too, but they lack the awesomeness of Vikings.

 

[GiantRedButton]

Definatly vikings or other Germanic ancestors.
The roman empire conquered every piece of land that they knew of expect the germanic forests.
They instead build a giant wall because the scared the living shit outta them.
Note that they neither had good weapons or any armor, they were just badass and had the healing skills of their druids.
Though they weren`t considered to be human, the romans called them giants. But i doubt there was such a big difference in size, the rioman empire was just scared.

 

[Zaldin]

From the information that I know, I'd have to choose the spartans as best warriors. (The modern soldier doesn't fall into this class of warriors in my opinion, so I'm counting him out) Since they were pretty much breathing, eating and sleeping fighting. Or maybe the elite soldiers of the Athenians, but you never hear of those anyways. (Cookie to him who knows who they are !)

 

[Gingerman]

Wait, didn't you already arhue about these points yesterday?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.179342.5231704

And let me render all this back and forth meaningless by stating that I never said that the samurai were the best (though they sure are awesome) just the most stylish. For deadliest I would still say a modern soldier, as a single well trained platoon can take on a whole army of the swords and arrows variety. And they have airstrikes

/discussion

edit: BTW, have you noticed that we've taken up half of this page with this discussion?

Yep but I thought it was such a good group of points that I'd just mention them again. Well that and I was quite tired and a tad peeved that every forum I go on (and real life sadly) I hear this kind of discussion where people are using "facts" that they acquired from tv shows as evidence (one of my pet peeves).

Anyway gonna try and ignore these kind of threads from now on, getting to many grey hairs.

 

[Hallow'sEve]

Suicide bombers ALWAYS win, whether they know it or not.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

FUCK YOUR SWORDS

Guns are fucking coward's weapons as far as warriors are concerned, if you ask me. A real warrior has the balls to meet his enemy face to face and look him in the eye before killing him; using either bare hands or a melee weapon. Anything else is for cowards and weaklings.
/my opinion

However, a gun is also a good way to not risk dying while causing the opponent to suffer a premature end.

 

[Hattman]

Vikings. Why,you might ask.
They fucking ate amanitas before they went into battle! Also,mythologi was way cooler then the Greeks and Romans. They had gods who didn't fuck around. Well,the Greeks and Romans had that too,but that is beside the point!

They are the only ones who put forth the effort to be fucking terrifying what with the murder/rape/pillage trifecta that had the entire coast of Europe shitting themselves every time a longboat was seen on the horizon.

Well,this is a good arugment.