Poll: What if an RPG used real races?

[Thyunda]

Can you tell me based on sight specifically which regions of the world each of these people hail from and which magical spells etc that they have been able to cast since gestation? I've never really had the knack for it so I'm curious if someone with such a vested interest in diversity might be able to help out an idiot like myself.

Yes. With ease. Well, for some of them. I'm not learned enough for all of them. Shockingly I can tell the difference between a continental African and a Caribbean. Oh, and I can make out both Indian and Pakistani faces in there. The upside down fellow I'm at a loss for, I can't get a good enough look to deduce anything. Now how did you find such a diverse group of people in one picture? That's got to be in America.

As for magical powers? That part was a joke. Jews don't automatically attract money, that's something known as 'stereotype humour'. Pakistanis don't all smell bad. Not all Africans are fast runners.

But you CAN separate them. People in this country continually use Indian and Pakistani interchangeably, despite the fact that Indians generally have a darker skin tone and less pronounced cheekbones than Pakistanis. Once again. It's a basic guide, not the 'identify every nationality super-easy' cheat code.
The only race I've had good contact with and yet still fail to identify without the accent is the Australian. Shockingly, they're not all crocodile-wrestling, bronzed types. All the ones I've met have managed to be ridiculously similar to the current English.

Oh, and as for the BNP? Try the EDL. Though the joke here is that the EDL were spawned as an overreaction to the Government's obstinate refusal to actually do anything about the foreigners that WERE causing trouble. As long as Islam4UK continues to operate, I will not condemn the EDL. I'm fine with 'get the dirty ragheads out of England' being chanted as long as our government continues to allow Sharia law to be encouraged among some Muslim communities.

 

[TheScientificIssole]

I almost chose "I'm on the fence" because I'm part Mexican. Jesus. Well my answer is "No."

 

[Thyunda]

If it was tongue-in-cheek and just played on the most hyped up versions of stereotypes then I reckon it'd be pretty funny. Granted, it's going to piss people off anyway because they'd see their races/other races being cast in a possibly negative light; and while small bonuses like +10% run speed or 50% resistance to alcohol would probably be harmless in the long run, changes to major stats (Intelligence, Strength, etc.) will probably cause a shit-storm the size of a small country (Implications that a given race is dumber/smarter then others would be seen in this, and then cue shit-storm) and the game would be shut down pretty damn quickly.

There is only one humanoid race on earth, and that is humans. So there would be one race in the game, a little dull perhaps.

Species, genius. Races are a division of a single species.

Also. American may not be a race, per se, but Russian certainly is. Descendants of the original Rus and the nearby territories have a unique build. Nationality and race ARE intrinsically linked. The Irish, for example, are a race. The Scottish are a race. The English are a race. The Welsh are a race. Despite inhabiting the same landmass (not including Ireland here, obviously). Welsh people are generally shorter and stockier than the English, and the Scottish are often bigger. Compare the Bretons and Nords from Skyrim and you have the difference between a Saxon and a Norwegian.

While not everybody fits into these racial builds, they are there, and there's no use denying them. Hell, even Americans appear to be developing their own, unique strand. Americans appear to have softer-looking faces and generally less pronounced features. If it wasn't a race, you wouldn't be able to recognize them on sight.

So yes. Nationality and race are very closely linked. If I can name real differences between neighboring countries, then the OP has a fair point.

Also, the game would only work if the Welsh possessed the ability to cast 'Fury' with their ridiculous accent.


EDIT: Thought I should mention - North and South Sudan don't count. They're geographically similar and only very recently split, so the Sudanese will remain the Sudanese race until some unspecified point in the future when you can tell the difference from sight alone.

Finally, someone who agrees with me! I've had to explain this far too many times to my friends who think that every single white man on the planet belongs to the same race (they also believe every single black man/Asian man does too - kinda pisses off any Japanese/Chinese people they know)

I cannot stand people using Asian to describe Japan or China I know it's technically correct, but you cannot compare the (outdated term, I know) Orient with the Middle East. If you say that 'Asian kids get an intelligence stat boost', my brain is automatically going to fill that in with a Pakistani guy. I have to manually switch it with a Korean/Jap...anese guy? I don't want to say Jap, it sounds offensive/or Chinaman.
But that's because of where I grew up. It was an off-hand term. Bloody Asians and their mosques. That sort of culture.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Also, the game would only work if the Welsh possessed the ability to cast 'Fury' with their ridiculous accent.

Oh, no, it would be 'Di-ildio Grym!'. Means 'Unrelenting Force' in Welsh. Though that first word come dangerously close to dildo.

 

[uberhippy]

Well, gaming (as well as every other medium) has been doing this for years already with Cultural stereotypes.. Which is fine..
Tends to work best in historical games where there is clear and abundant historical data which represents these differences well
Eg, in Age of Empires, the Ottoman Empire receives far better technology in terms of gun warfare because they were the pioneers of this technology,
Whereas the Spanish have highly-skilled pikemen and Rodeleros, which was also historically true and factual..
-cultural differences, and historical differences = fair enough

But if you go out of your way to offend someone, or create a deliberately antagonistic racial class in a game,, you'll probably run into problems..

If such a game as you were describing was made in the early 90's, perhaps it would come off as charmingly satirical.. But now, it'd probably come off as crass and offensive.


(ps, shouting 'AMERICA' to get bonuses?!?! Whaaaaa??:s
Perhaps extra weight or decreased intelligence would suit the stereotype better...)

-apologies to any Americans reading

 

[Thyunda]

Oh, no, it would be 'Di-ildio Grym!'. Means 'Unrelenting Force' in Welsh. Though that first word come dangerously close to dildo.

The Welsh can stir up incomprehensible anger in me just by talking. That ridiculous sing-song voice. And the term 'boyo'. Agh.

(ps, shouting 'AMERICA' to get bonuses?!?! Whaaaaa??:s
Perhaps extra weight or decreased intelligence would suit the stereotype better...)

Sure, you could call it 'The Patriot Act', and it inspires Americans with their innate American power. That every action film has. It's traditional. All Americans love America and can call on America's Americanism (what the fuck, Americanism is a real word) and increase their own American stats. 'Un-American' (now that one IS a word, kind of) activities decrease the effect of the America shout, and American characters will be predisposed against any kind of 'socialist' or 'communist' factions.

 

[Hugga_Bear]

Depends on the way it's implemented. If you make it to satire the usual racial stereotypes then no it's not racist. If it's played straight then maybe, depends on what you do really.

It wouldn't work so well in a modern era because of the general melting pot thing going on, most distinctions are quickly fading but if we go back a few thousand years we could happily draw up some arbitrary but grounded racial traits for those areas without this obvious integration, though I think most would be based on the technology and society as opposed to the actual races...

It wouldn't work though, not really. Humanity doesn't differ much, we may have some differences in how we approach things, mostly a gift of society (see England's Stiff Upper Lip: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StiffUpperLip ). Actual physical differences just aren't that strong, not in any way.

 

[babinro]

Answered on the fence. I'm not actually remotely bothered by the idea because I don't take it as being racist to state steriotypes.

That said, there are far to many people out there who are very sensitive to these things. A game using bonuses like this are just asking for the wrong kind of attention.

I should say that I love the idea of playing RPG's that take place on Earth and focus on humans.

 

[Alphavillain]

I play games to get away from the real world, so why would I play a game that constantly reminds me of the real world? BTW, I always play as black men in games wherver possible even though I'm not black. I always put it down to my man-crush on Marvin Gaye. Go figure.

 

[masticina]

Race.. there is only one race we are dealing with here humanity.

Though if you make this game do make White Suprematists have a -20 Intelligence "bonus" ... seriously have these guys never heard of how genes work.

 

[uberhippy]

Anything wrong with applying positive racial stereotypes?
No.

Would people throw a tantrum because the issue of race is ridiculously over sensitive?
Most definitely.


Off topic:
As I've been preoccupied for the last few months and this is my first post in a while, might I ask: When did The Escapist get so incredibly UGLY?!

Give me the old layout and colour scheme ANY day of the week.
...Ok, I just noticed I could change the background colour so I'm a little happier, the white is blinding. But I still miss the old layout

Good point,
It seems that when all is in good fun & the application of good traits would be OK.
(eg, I'm Irish,,, i guess that would give me either super-drunkenness.... or perhaps even Brawler

ps, the escapist changed just before Xmas i think,,
I was abit confused when it changed too, but it grows on you

 

[ShindoL Shill]

Or if you choose African you could run faster. Americans, could... I don't know maybe shout AMERICA!! and inspire one another (giving a stat bonus). etc.

you mean like how Redguards (who are dark-skinned and come from a desert) have a stamina regen power? or how Imperials (white people from a green, mountainy empire that likes war) can chat people up? or how the Nords (white people from a mountainy cold country) have cold resistance? Bretons are a mix of men and mer (like how Britain started out with the Celts, then the Vikings turned up, then the Germans, then the Romans...)
TES has done it for years. Elves are... Chinese/Korean probably (land far away, stereotypically advanced in magic (instead of electronics) and physically fucked). Khajiit are south american/native american (they come from a country with rainforests and dusty badlands), argonians-actually, fucked if i know. Akaviri-Japan, if you couldnt tell by the swords.

So how is black a race?

Africans, i suppose.

 

[BlindTom]

Can you tell me based on sight specifically which regions of the world each of these people hail from and which magical spells etc that they have been able to cast since gestation? I've never really had the knack for it so I'm curious if someone with such a vested interest in diversity might be able to help out an idiot like myself.

Yes. With ease. Well, for some of them. I'm not learned enough for all of them. Shockingly I can tell the difference between a continental African and a Caribbean. Oh, and I can make out both Indian and Pakistani faces in there. The upside down fellow I'm at a loss for, I can't get a good enough look to deduce anything. Now how did you find such a diverse group of people in one picture? That's got to be in America.

As for magical powers? That part was a joke. Jews don't automatically attract money, that's something known as 'stereotype humour'. Pakistanis don't all smell bad. Not all Africans are fast runners.

But you CAN separate them. People in this country continually use Indian and Pakistani interchangeably, despite the fact that Indians generally have a darker skin tone and less pronounced cheekbones than Pakistanis. Once again. It's a basic guide, not the 'identify every nationality super-easy' cheat code.
The only race I've had good contact with and yet still fail to identify without the accent is the Australian. Shockingly, they're not all crocodile-wrestling, bronzed types. All the ones I've met have managed to be ridiculously similar to the current English.

Oh, and as for the BNP? Try the EDL. Though the joke here is that the EDL were spawned as an overreaction to the Government's obstinate refusal to actually do anything about the foreigners that WERE causing trouble. As long as Islam4UK continues to operate, I will not condemn the EDL. I'm fine with 'get the dirty ragheads out of England' being chanted as long as our government continues to allow Sharia law to be encouraged among some Muslim communities.

So does that make their race American? I'm really confused by all this. How does this translate into the stereotype pandering put forward in the OP?

If this was going to be done it would have to satirically take the point of view of some sort of extreme perspective. Basically a parody of the kinds of views being earnestly expressed by many of the people in this thread. Maybe the stats that gain bonuses do not actually affect the gameplay and the character creation system is just made by a racist moron. Perhaps the best route would be something in the vein of the hillarious Liberal Crime Squad in which there are only extremes and the Religion skill is simply "ones ability to be a conservative," and if a liberal operatives Wisdom gets too high they become a conservative etc.

The voice of the game and its menu systems is a stereotype in itself, it manages to ridicule extremism of all kinds because of the insane shit it comes out with all the way through the game.

 

[Jimmy T. Malice]

Americans, could... I don't know maybe shout AMERICA!! and inspire one another (giving a stat bonus). etc.

See: Voice of the Emperor for Imperials in The Elder Scrolls.

 

[SciMal]

Imagine an RPG that used real races, and gave the character stereo-typical stat bonuses. Say, if you chose Russian you would get an HP bonus because they are notoriously hard to kill. Or if you choose African you could run faster. Americans, could... I don't know maybe shout AMERICA!! and inspire one another (giving a stat bonus). etc.

I guess the heart of the real question is: Is re-enforcing positive stereo-types offensive?

"American" isn't a race.

It becomes racist because you choose to use "Stereotypical" stat bonuses instead of actual stat bonuses. The difference in capabilities between human populations (none of which constitute an actual taxonomical race, btw) are pretty slim, and you'd only see them emerge at the absolute highest level of competition.

Re-enforcing positive stereotypes may not be offensive, but it is still racist. You are still re-enforcing stereotypes which are based on perceived differences instead of studied differences.

If you wanted to use actual science-based stats:

-White people would get melanoma more often, but also produce more Vitamin D and stay healthier in colder climates.
-Black people would get Diabetes easier, but have less visceral fat stores.
-Tibetans would be able to keep their blood oxygen levels higher at altitude.
-White people and some African populations would not shut off their lactase production after childhood.
-White people can be blonde.

 

[Nihilism_Is_Bliss]

The only race I've had good contact with and yet still fail to identify without the accent is the Australian. Shockingly, they're not all crocodile-wrestling, bronzed types. All the ones I've met have managed to be ridiculously similar to the current English.

I think you'd struggle to call 'Australian' a race. We're a bit like America in that we're a very new country (Australia is way newer than even America) and our population is so diverse and multicultural that there hasn't been much time, and in this day and age, no separation from the outside world, that has allowed for a general divergence in race throughout the country.
If you're considering the Australian aborigines who have lived here for tens of thousands of years then fair enough, but most families haven't even lived in Australia for more than a few generations.
I don't think it would be possible for someone to be physically distinguishable as Australian on sight alone.

But yes I agree with the general point you were making, race certainly isn't as simple as colour or continent.

And no, I can assure you I avoid crocodiles when possible, and am a healthy gamer-pale hue.

 

[Sparrow]

I think we need a "I would definitely play that game" option, because I so would. I think you'd have to go the whole nine yards and throw in all the stereotypes though, like English people getting +1 to all stats for an hour if tea is consumed and all American people starting off a little fatter than all the other classes.

 

[Thyunda]

Or if you choose African you could run faster. Americans, could... I don't know maybe shout AMERICA!! and inspire one another (giving a stat bonus). etc.

you mean like how Redguards (who are dark-skinned and come from a desert) have a stamina regen power? or how Imperials (white people from a green, mountainy empire that likes war) can chat people up? or how the Nords (white people from a mountainy cold country) have cold resistance? Bretons are a mix of men and mer (like how Britain started out with the Celts, then the Vikings turned up, then the Germans, then the Romans...)
TES has done it for years. Elves are... Chinese/Korean probably (land far away, stereotypically advanced in magic (instead of electronics) and physically fucked). Khajiit are south american/native american (they come from a country with rainforests and dusty badlands), argonians-actually, fucked if i know. Akaviri-Japan, if you couldnt tell by the swords.

I dunno, man, the Khajiit sound Spanish to me. I can see the American traits involved in the landscape, but their mannerism and accent is very Spanish.

 

[Thyunda]

Can you tell me based on sight specifically which regions of the world each of these people hail from and which magical spells etc that they have been able to cast since gestation? I've never really had the knack for it so I'm curious if someone with such a vested interest in diversity might be able to help out an idiot like myself.

Yes. With ease. Well, for some of them. I'm not learned enough for all of them. Shockingly I can tell the difference between a continental African and a Caribbean. Oh, and I can make out both Indian and Pakistani faces in there. The upside down fellow I'm at a loss for, I can't get a good enough look to deduce anything. Now how did you find such a diverse group of people in one picture? That's got to be in America.

As for magical powers? That part was a joke. Jews don't automatically attract money, that's something known as 'stereotype humour'. Pakistanis don't all smell bad. Not all Africans are fast runners.

But you CAN separate them. People in this country continually use Indian and Pakistani interchangeably, despite the fact that Indians generally have a darker skin tone and less pronounced cheekbones than Pakistanis. Once again. It's a basic guide, not the 'identify every nationality super-easy' cheat code.
The only race I've had good contact with and yet still fail to identify without the accent is the Australian. Shockingly, they're not all crocodile-wrestling, bronzed types. All the ones I've met have managed to be ridiculously similar to the current English.

Oh, and as for the BNP? Try the EDL. Though the joke here is that the EDL were spawned as an overreaction to the Government's obstinate refusal to actually do anything about the foreigners that WERE causing trouble. As long as Islam4UK continues to operate, I will not condemn the EDL. I'm fine with 'get the dirty ragheads out of England' being chanted as long as our government continues to allow Sharia law to be encouraged among some Muslim communities.

So does that make their race American? I'm really confused by all this. How does this translate into the stereotype pandering put forward in the OP?

If this was going to be done it would have to satirically take the point of view of some sort of extreme perspective. Basically a parody of the kinds of views being earnestly expressed by many of the people in this thread. Maybe the stats that gain bonuses do not actually affect the gameplay and the character creation system is just made by a racist moron. Perhaps the best route would be something in the vein of the hillarious Liberal Crime Squad in which there are only extremes and the Religion skill is simply "ones ability to be a conservative," and if a liberal operatives Wisdom gets too high they become a conservative etc.

The voice of the game and its menu systems is a stereotype in itself, it manages to ridicule extremism of all kinds because of the insane shit it comes out with all the way through the game.

My argument was first with your ridiculous statement that you cannot identify a persons' lineage by sight alone. I say lineage, because you can be born in England and still look like your grandparents' birthplace. America has been a country long enough, and has a unique enough geographical setup, for 'American' to be a race. It's similar to how the Irish have an interesting contempt for Irish Americans, because despite the latter's insistence on reciting their heritage, they are now American. Similar to how the mix of Celtic, Roman, Norse and Saxon genes has culminated in the modern Englishman, the melting-pot of races in America's founding has led to the American race. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I've only ever met one 'true' Englishman in my entire life. Well, two if you count his father. Black hair, blue eyes. Oddly rare, though I never noticed it till somebody else mentioned it. Direct descendant of the Cornovii, whereas I'm a descendent of the mag Fhionnghaile of county Donegal, Ireland. And people notice. I was not born in Ireland. I've spent all of a day in Dublin. And yet people hear Ireland in my voice, and see it in my appearance. Scotland too, but that's more to do with my father's Glaswegian influence.

So, what I'm trying to say is that being born in a country doesn't necessarily make you that race. Makes you that nationality, but not the race. I'm English, but the English attribute me to Irish, despite the Irish genes being fairly distant now.