Poll: Yahtzee changes joke in ZP video
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I'm not sure how including transexuals in a joke that isn't about demeaning them is particularly offensive. Are we not supposed to talk about them or make references to them? Are we supposed to pretend like they don't exist or that a pre-op transexual female doesn't have male genitals?
I'd understand offense if he was somehow calling them a bad thing or something along those lines. But just referring to a specific group of people engaged in a sexual act isn't offensive. I get that transexuals are often marginalized and people treat them badly. That's awful and needs to stop. But pick actual existing battles if you're going to fight any battles at all.
My only thoughts regarding why this could be offensive would be regarding the notion that a man engaged in sexual activities with a transgendered female is performing homosexual activities. While gender-wise the transexual isn't performing a homosexual act, the cis-male would be sex-wise. Again the joke is about the cismale in this instance, not the transexual.I'm sorry but the joke stands, if you're a man and you like cock in and around ye' ol' face, you're gay. Doesn't matter whose it is (with the singular exception of your own, I suppose). Not that being gay is a bad thing. Just what it is. The notion of homosexuality does begin to blur where transexuals are concerned, but not on the Cis side of the fence. As a gay female once told me. "I'd love to go out with someone like you, but you've got a cock". I didn't know she was gay until that hilariously flippant coming out comment and we were great friends with everything in common and remained so up until graduation and we moved away (to give context to it). I bring this up to say that homosexuality is generally defined sexually (aka, the physical body as opposed to gender, the mental gender identity of the individual). That's why it's a sexual orientation specifically and how a transgendered individual is not necessarily a homosexual individual.
Second, fantasizing about a dick is not a heterosexual fantasy. I'm sorry, but that is decidedly less heterosexual every step you go in that direction. What is true is that heterosexuals may have homosexual fantasies. This particular fantasy is generally known to have a female who is female in every area of appearance except the one. There is also a difference between fantasy and action. It's important to know that there are two definitions for what male is thanks to a modern understanding of it whereas there used to be only one and transgenderism was shoved off to the side. The psychological male/female gender and the sexual maleness/femaleness (previously also called gender until the fluidity of gender identity became recognized and accepted). Homosexuality is not typically defined along the lines of pyschological gender. It is most commonly referred to along the lines of sexuality. This is perhaps why the term itself contains the term sexuality. A transgendered female's sexuality does not necessarily follow their gender. I've known of few individuals (originally physically male) who actually went post-op female while still happily married to their cisfemale wives. That is to say, happily married on their end. The wives usually had a significant problem with the physical change.
I'd understand offense if he was somehow calling them a bad thing or something along those lines. But just referring to a specific group of people engaged in a sexual act isn't offensive. I get that transexuals are often marginalized and people treat them badly. That's awful and needs to stop. But pick actual existing battles if you're going to fight any battles at all.
My only thoughts regarding why this could be offensive would be regarding the notion that a man engaged in sexual activities with a transgendered female is performing homosexual activities. While gender-wise the transexual isn't performing a homosexual act, the cis-male would be sex-wise. Again the joke is about the cismale in this instance, not the transexual.I'm sorry but the joke stands, if you're a man and you like cock in and around ye' ol' face, you're gay. Doesn't matter whose it is (with the singular exception of your own, I suppose). Not that being gay is a bad thing. Just what it is. The notion of homosexuality does begin to blur where transexuals are concerned, but not on the Cis side of the fence. As a gay female once told me. "I'd love to go out with someone like you, but you've got a cock". I didn't know she was gay until that hilariously flippant coming out comment and we were great friends with everything in common and remained so up until graduation and we moved away (to give context to it). I bring this up to say that homosexuality is generally defined sexually (aka, the physical body as opposed to gender, the mental gender identity of the individual). That's why it's a sexual orientation specifically and how a transgendered individual is not necessarily a homosexual individual.
Firstly, I'm not sure if you're joking or not. No indicator of it being a joke so I'll assume this is serious. Forgive me If I'm wrong. Please understand that I mean no disrespect towards you and honestly believe that there is nothing wrong with you. Please keep that in mind for this discussion so that you don't have to feel like you're defending yourself or transexuals against me.chinangel said:
Second, fantasizing about a dick is not a heterosexual fantasy. I'm sorry, but that is decidedly less heterosexual every step you go in that direction. What is true is that heterosexuals may have homosexual fantasies. This particular fantasy is generally known to have a female who is female in every area of appearance except the one. There is also a difference between fantasy and action. It's important to know that there are two definitions for what male is thanks to a modern understanding of it whereas there used to be only one and transgenderism was shoved off to the side. The psychological male/female gender and the sexual maleness/femaleness (previously also called gender until the fluidity of gender identity became recognized and accepted). Homosexuality is not typically defined along the lines of pyschological gender. It is most commonly referred to along the lines of sexuality. This is perhaps why the term itself contains the term sexuality. A transgendered female's sexuality does not necessarily follow their gender. I've known of few individuals (originally physically male) who actually went post-op female while still happily married to their cisfemale wives. That is to say, happily married on their end. The wives usually had a significant problem with the physical change.
"Oh, Yahtzee made some very, very crude jokes about *NOUN* in his reviews!!! Seeing as how I'm *NOUN* and deeply offended, I demand that he changes all inappropriate jokes about *NOUN* in all of his videos, otherwise I'm going on a long rant, mister!!!"
The internet, bastion of free speech, last vanguard of anti-censorship!!!
The internet, bastion of free speech, last vanguard of anti-censorship!!!
Oh my god. It just hit me. I don't think he was actually being criticized by actual pre-op transgenders. I'm thinking got the blowback from dickgirl fetishists insisting they were NOT GAY.
It all makes sense now.
It all makes sense now.
It's comedy. Comedy suspends morality. He didn't have to change it, and people didn't need to feel offended. He's already made fun of MY sexuality hundreds of time and I couldn't give a fuck about it, he's a hilarious guy.
I honestly don't care either way.
Was the joke in bad taste? Maybe. Should he have removed it when he realized it was in bad taste? Maybe? *shrug*
Besides, I take everything he says as straight up satire, so I don't get offended by anything he says. No matter what game he bashes, or how much he insinuates that everyone in Montreal is retarded, I just shrug and move on. (I live there, and he DID say that in his Splinter Cell conviction review).
Was the joke in bad taste? Maybe. Should he have removed it when he realized it was in bad taste? Maybe? *shrug*
Besides, I take everything he says as straight up satire, so I don't get offended by anything he says. No matter what game he bashes, or how much he insinuates that everyone in Montreal is retarded, I just shrug and move on. (I live there, and he DID say that in his Splinter Cell conviction review).
No, I don't think it was offensive enough to warrant being edited out...but that's probably not why it was edited out. I would think it was edited out because it upset a significant portion, (maybe a fifth? Completely made up number, but it was significant), which is typically something you don't want to do as an entertainer...so while I don't agree with people getting upset at him for something that was basically a non-issue, (it wasn't even a dig at transexuals...), I do agree with his decision to change it.
While some people may think that all groups should be fair game in jokes, I disagree. It's a simple case of "Dude, too soon" considering that extremely high levels of discrimination of all forms are ongoing towards trans people.
It's like making 9/11 jokes right as the towers themselves collapse back in 2001.
It's like making 9/11 jokes right as the towers themselves collapse back in 2001.
Honestly, to me, the joke was on the politician, not the people he gives blow jobs to, and the sign was shorthand for the directive in the actual game to make sure the peoples' M or F on their papers matched what they say/how they look, so I was shocked to find so many knee-jerk reaction posts when I watched the video later in the week and checked out the thread. It's like they drowned out the video as white noise up until those points and some people even made accounts just so they could try to get it taken down. Never in my relatively short time on this forum have I seen so many warnings, suspensions and bans in one thread. It really was just like the case with that guy who had to resign over using the word 'niggardly' in its correct usage just because the African-American listeners thought he said a racist remark about them and had a knee-jerk reaction to a word they apparently didn't even know the meaning of and I'm glad Yahtzee alluded to that in his Extra Punctuation article. And on the off chance that anyone gets on my case for saying it like that, I am black, though not African-American.
nig·gard·ly [nig-erd-lee]
adjective
1. reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly.
2. meanly or ungenerously small or scanty.
See, nothing at all about about race, just another word for a scrooge and unfortunately one that sounds too much like the slur. Same script, different cast with the video.
nig·gard·ly [nig-erd-lee]
adjective
1. reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly.
2. meanly or ungenerously small or scanty.
See, nothing at all about about race, just another word for a scrooge and unfortunately one that sounds too much like the slur. Same script, different cast with the video.
"Anyone who gets offended by a joke is too thinned skin"
Says the person who wasn't part of the group made fun of.
Personally, I found the joke funny, but I'm not a person who feels like they were born the wrong gender. In the end, It's Yahtzee's series, and he decided to change it, so no amount of bitching whether or not it was "Right" or people are too "Thin Skinned" Is gonna change a damn thing
Says the person who wasn't part of the group made fun of.
Personally, I found the joke funny, but I'm not a person who feels like they were born the wrong gender. In the end, It's Yahtzee's series, and he decided to change it, so no amount of bitching whether or not it was "Right" or people are too "Thin Skinned" Is gonna change a damn thing
as I said before: gay men are attracted to masculinity, tell me what is masculine about a pair of breasts? Nothing. Transsexual porn is not directed at gay men because it features a man/woman and a transsexual. It's targeted at heterosexual and bisexual men.Lightknight said:
I'm sorry but i've read a lot on this (my library had a shockingly large amount on the subject) and well...the fact is that heterosexual men are attracted to femininity, gay men: masculinity.
There are just some men who fetishize (sp?) a woman with a dick, and they identify as heterosexual, it's why futanari hentai is so prevalent.
it's a weird thing about sexuality I suppose.
I think the joke should have remained. I don't think creatives should have to self censor to appease people they offend. I am not saying people shouldn't have been offended by it, offence is subjective and as such it is an individual's prerogative to be offended by whatever it is that offends them. However, unless the person who caused the offence did so deliberatley, which i don't think anyone would claim is the case here, then I don't believe the person who caused the offence can legitimatley be held accountable for it. I for instance find it offensive when someone talks to me while stuffing their mouth with food, but i recognise its my problem and i just have to get on with it.
And before anyone jumps down my throat with any "ah yes but this was offensive towards a minority group and thats worse" arguments, maybe it was, but anyone, and i genuinely mean anyone can be part of a victimised minority if they look far enough to justify it.
And before anyone jumps down my throat with any "ah yes but this was offensive towards a minority group and thats worse" arguments, maybe it was, but anyone, and i genuinely mean anyone can be part of a victimised minority if they look far enough to justify it.
Some questions.MarsAtlas said:
How does a joke, which is bases it's humour in ignorance, exaggeration and generalisation, perpetuate any kind of serious idea?
Why is Yahtzee allowed to "perpetuate ideas (ugh)" for every other group in the world, but trans folks?
Why is harassment (if that's what the backlass constituted of) an acceptable avenue for persuading Yahtzee to censor himself?
Seen as he's not a professional comedian, maybe. If he wishes to acknowledge that some people took offense, fine. But I think it should be a two way street, he should be educating those who took offense from the joke in the fundamentals of comedy.MarsAtlas said:
I doubt we'll come to an agreement here. I think it's okay for people to think "if you have a penis you're male if you have a vagina you're female."
And like I said before, one of the cornerstones of comedy is generalisation.
A joke is done to provoke laughter. It is not done to provoke offence or offend others. Thus the definition as you posted yourself is kind of self explanatory. Jokes dont ahve victims. some people think that everything they dont like makes them victims is all.MarsAtlas said:
You mean the Escapist threatened to fire him if he didn't change it and apologize?5ilver said:
I find that a bit hard to believe, given how ZP is the biggest drawcard to this website.
Without Yahtzee, this website would get SIGNIFICANTLY less traffic.
So I don't think the management here would be able to dictate things to him like this. He'd have more 'sway' than that.
That may be, but he wrote jokes, not insults. a joke is a joke regardless who wrote it. being a joke already implies it is not seriuos, thus it is not an insult. providing languhter can be offensive. making a joke cant. Dark humour is considered humour and not insults for a reason.Spot1990 said:
You're in good company.TopazFusion said:
And by that, I mean you're in company with me.
And I have a half-eaten steak burrito that you can get in on. (Upon reading that, I realise it sounds kinky. It isn't. There's nothing kinky about my steak burrito).
There was never anything offensive about the original joke, people just decided to put way too much thought into it.
I would've preferred if Yahtzee had left the joke alone. I mean I didn't find it funny or anything, but changing it just to keep the crowd happy is not right.
I would've preferred if Yahtzee had left the joke alone. I mean I didn't find it funny or anything, but changing it just to keep the crowd happy is not right.