Porting From PC to Console Is Doing Things Backwards, Says Rage Dev

[Jordi]

I don't have any problem with focusing on consoles as the primary platform. But unfortunately what this usually means is not "we will focus only one third of the energy on PCs", but "fuck PCs, you guys are getting a crappy port".

If you want to reduce the input, graphics and options - I guess it makes sense to work on the easy version first.

Actually, if you have any intention of doing both versions right, I think it is a lot better to develop primarily for PC (but with a controller). Basically the PC needs extra features/complexity and it is far easier to make a console version from a PC game than the other way around, because you can just fix most of the settings at whatever will work for that console.

I think a more sensible idea would be to develop a OS-free version first and then have separate teams to stretch the game to each machine's strengths. If you're doing a run and gun game, then you've already got most of the main keys detailed from the history of those games. (Right Trigger / Left Mouse for fire etc.)

Having played with both sets of controllers recently: it's more to do with making the controls comfortable, whatever the handset, and then adding in the option to change.

Seriously, missing out V-Sync in options is just plain laziness.

I'm pretty sure that they will develop most things as OS-agnostic as possible. However, most graphic options will, at least to my knowledge (I don't own a console), only be available to PC gamers. So even though they might not use super anti-aliasing, high resolutions, HDR, etc. in the console version, they should still develop the game with those things in mind if they want them. Like I said, it's much easier to then say that the XBOX version will be fixed at a certain setting, than it is to later make the game run at higher graphical levels for the PC.

As for the controllers, I don't really think that the control schemes themselves are the biggest problems (although some PC ports are absolutely horrible even in this regard). The thing is that both controllers are better at different things and sometimes you need to adjust the gameplay for that. For instance, focusing on an enemy with a controller is much slower than with the mouse, so difficulty, number of enemies and possibly even the level design need to be "adjusted" to take that into account.
Also, navigating menu's on a high res screen that is right in front of you with a keyboard and mouse is much more convenient than with a controller, so a lot of console games simplify the interface (or let you carry less weapons) because of this. This can in turn have far reaching implications for the difficulty, etc. of the rest of the game (i.e. it's easier if you can optimize your character better or carry more guns).

Ideally, a game could be developed that is optimized for both, but I understand that sometimes that isn't really feasible. However, it would be nice to see developers at least make an effort to make the PC port decent.

 

[Nexus4]

Personally, I agree in regards to the marketing and their approach. If you go from PC to console you have to dumb down everything for the ports that may make the game clunky, difficult to control or just plain broken. If you go from console to PC, then you can focus your attention on improving the features, making it much more flexible and customizable for the PC audience without having to make drastic changes to how the game plays in it's entirety. The problem is that most developers skip over that part and just shift a PC port with no optimization for PC platforms which is a massive pain in the ass. If developers just spent a little time, at least changing the games so it doesn't tell me to press 'start' on the PC version of Crysis 2,on making the game on PC take full advantage of what PC can offer. Then I doubt people would really be in a position to complain so much and you would have a much happier PC fan base.

 

[Sigma Van Lockheart]

Well it was a rant till I edited it so that it could just be this

 

[ramboondiea]

yay! this just makes me look forward to the game more and more, looks like they are putting alot of emphasise on the controls which is nice

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

OS-agnostic

Aside: I do love the idea of having a computer that philosophises on the nature of OSs.

Like I said, it's much easier to then say that the XBOX version will be fixed at a certain setting, than it is to later make the game run at higher graphical levels for the PC.

It really depends. Some PC specialist games have graphics options so far up the wazoo as to be unachievable at the moment. Beyond a certain point though, I think it's just fluff. In an FPS, how long are you going to pay attention to something before getting headshot? I'm still running on 1024x768.

Once you've got a general level of graphics that work across all the systems, then you can leave flourishes to post-production. They're the least important parts really, as they're the first things people turn off for a better FPS.

The thing is that both controllers are better at different things and sometimes you need to adjust the gameplay for that. For instance, focusing on an enemy with a controller is much slower than with the mouse, so difficulty, number of enemies and possibly even the level design need to be "adjusted" to take that into account.

True...hadn't thought of that. But still, does that make that huge a difference?

Ideally, a game could be developed that is optimized for both, but I understand that sometimes that isn't really feasible. However, it would be nice to see developers at least make an effort to make the PC port decent.

I think most developers (See Gearbox) are terrified of innovating because the base audience is looking for the no-scope, instakill as standard; and will return the game with a torrent of criticisms if it doesn't keep up to their standards.

I'm just thinking pipe dreams here, but how about if the consoles had a keyboard you could plug into one of the ports? Mad idea I know...

 

[Korolev]

Wow. A lot of hatred on this thread. Chill people. Chill.

PC gaming will never die, and neither will console games. Both have a place in this world:

PC Gamers, please realize that consoles are here to stay and have been around for a long time. There are plenty of good games on consoles: Mass Effect 1 was on the 360 first, and that was a good, intelligent game. So was Valkyria Chronicles and Metal Gear Solid 4 and L.A Noire and Gears of War.

Console Gamers: Why do you want PC gaming to die? Surely more platform options are better, right? How do games on the PC detract from games on consoles? And if you are replying to this thread, you must have a PC (or else really love typing stuff on your phone). So why not give some PC games a shot? Maybe you can't run the high-end stuff, but surely you'd be able to run some stuff.

I don't understand the level of hatred and angst. Consoles have a right to exist, and plenty of people have fun playing on them. They aren't going away. The PC market must adapt, like all things, to the new situation, and if it manages to do so then PC gaming will continue on its merry way.

Since gaming PCs exist, PC games will ALWAYS exist. Sure, maybe some games will be a bit more like Console games, but not all of them will be like that.

Calm down. Jeez.

 

[bombadilillo]

Funny how PC gamers get hit with the 'elitist' tag, but it's a console gamer that got banned in this thread.

I only come here for sheer irony.

What does the "elitist" tag have to do with coming online and cussing people out? Elist has nothing to do with personal disposition. Just irrational reverence for PC and looking down on people who enjoy their consoles.

 

[Evilpigeon]

That said, I bought a desktop machine off of Woot at a sale price of around $750. That's more than double what my Playstation 3 cost me, and yet my PS3 runs Portal 2 with the same graphical quality as my PC with a better framerate and overall performance. Which is pretty much why people prefer consoles. If you weren't some jerk like me that is platform agnostic and owns all three systems, then you'd have spent a small price on a gaming machine capable of running a ton of games at high quality for less money than you'd have to invest in a powerful enough PC.

You got yourself a really shitty deal on that Pc then. My laptop runs Portal 2 at console quality settings and it cost me £500, a tower I could've gotten way cheaper.

But you're stating the obvious, if it's more important that you never have to put any effort in to purchasing, upgrading or occasionally getting things to run then buy a console.

If you want a much larger selection of games, freer platform, higher quality graphics and the largest number of possible functions get a pc. The again, most people need a pc anyway....

 

[RA92]

Funny how PC gamers get hit with the 'elitist' tag, but it's a console gamer that got banned in this thread.

I only come here for sheer irony.

What does the "elitist" tag have to do with coming online and cussing people out? Elist has nothing to do with personal disposition. Just irrational reverence for PC and looking down on people who enjoy their consoles.

Poorly worded on my part.

I guess it should have been the '****' tag.

 

[Rad Party God]

Well, I guess I know what to expect.

At least if the port is as good as Capcom's games (port wise) or Borderlands at the very least, then I'm fine with it.

 

[DSK-]

Why not, if at all possible so long as there are enough resources and man power focus on both console and PC versions? that way both player bases won't have to look forward to shitty ports (from both platforms), poorly optimised and poorly accessible games.

I don't care what version you do first, so long as the game running on my platform of choice isn't an experience of complete misery and anguish.

 

[ImprovizoR]

So what he said basically is that it's easier to make a dumbed down game and port it to PC just the way it is, than to make a complex game and try to dumb it down for the console controller. It makes sense in business side of things, but it doesn't make sense if you're talking about the overall quality of the game because quality will suffer. But that's not something most console gamers are preoccupied about. If it was they wouldn't all jump to buy CoD every year.

 

[CleverCover]

And this thread is just going to dissolve into console versus PC, isn't it?

Damn, isn't this war getting really freaking old. Why does it matter that he's going to make a game fit one type of console and then bring it over to re-fit it to another? I don't understand why everyone feels the need to suddenly toss him off a cliff for betrayal.

He's still going to make the game. People are still going to buy it and play it.
If it's fun and great, no one's gonna care that it was a console port. If it wasn't, then I guess it has to be the fact that it was a port. From either side.

It's like a love/hate thing that is trapped in a Big Rigs level from hell or something.

 

[Arehexes]

I wonder how many of the hard core PC gamers are pissing their pants in rage?

 

[Double A]

Well, I guess it's nice to get your priorities straight. As long as devs realize that you can't play strategy games on a console, I'll be at least somewhat content. RPGs should be played on PCs, though, as they don't handle nearly as well on consoles. Don't really give a fuck about how shooters are made right now. Hope it works out for their hardcore fans in the end.

Still, it's saddening to see that the once-great PC is becoming less and less popular ever month, but is still the better platform for gaming. Can't really do anything about it because console players are incredibly stubborn when it comes to talking to them about the subject.

Wait... maybe if we talk to people about buying a PC for gaming when new consoles come out?

Just don't blame pirates when no PC player buys a console port

I can tell you right now I won't be purchasing it, yet have plans to play it.

id wants to play the backstabber game, well they can live by that path. Battlefield 3 is proof enough of just how much shit they are full of.

Given the rules of the site that's on a knife's edge

He's totally saying he's going to borrow it from a friend.

 

[Astalano]

Also, doesn't 2/3rds of sales on consoles mean that 1/3rd is the PC, 1/3rd is 360 and 1/3rd is PS3? Doesn't that also mean they make more money from the PC sales?

I don't understand this logic.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

Just don't blame pirates when no PC player buys a console port

well doesn't that just compound the problem? those who pirate games discourage developers from trying hard. the more people pirate, the less developers want to support the platform it gets pirated on (which is most often the PC).

 

[Azaraxzealot]

RPGs should be played on PCs, though, as they don't handle nearly as well on consoles.

Fallout and Oblivion seem to do just fine.

Along with Dragon Age, Fable, Torchlight, Castle Crashers, The Witcher 2 (which is coming out on xbox), Demon's Souls, and the upcoming Skyrim.

maybe you mean "classic" RPGs?

 

[HassEsser]

So, id and IW are following the same route? Being supported and utterly built up by the PC community, before letting money and sales get in the way and saying "fuck you" to group that created them?

Shameful.

RPGs should be played on PCs, though, as they don't handle nearly as well on consoles.

Fallout and Oblivion seem to do just fine.

Along with Dragon Age, Fable, Torchlight, Castle Crashers, The Witcher 2 (which is coming out on xbox), Demon's Souls, and the upcoming Skyrim.

maybe you mean "classic" RPGs?

They seem to do fine to you because you've never played them on a computer properly. If, lets say, you eat doo-doo for your entire life, then of course you're going to think doo-doo is just fine. Honestly, Fallout, Oblivion, Dragon Age, Fable and Torchlight play much, much, much better on PC. No lie. (also, Castle Crashers? uhh k)

 

[ph0b0s123]

-snip-

If you watch the whole interview he is very clear that PC's are 10x more powerful and its shocking how mediocre the difference is given that difference in hardware. Of course it will look better on PC, everything does. The difference is NOT EVEN CLOSE to what you would expect from 10x superior hardware.

It was a good interview he talked a lot aboiut development cycles and how shooting for top teir graphics can hamper your development.

The PC is 10x more powerful but you and Carmack are mystified as to why that difference in power is not being demonstrated...

I thought Carmack was smart. Bitching about the PC not showing it's potential while also stating that your next game will focus mainly on what consoles are capable of. These two things are related you know.

I have heard this put forwards a few times about why with all it's 'supposed' extra power is the PC not showing off that extra power. I wonder why. Maybe if someone develops a title for it that uses all of that power, even if it means that the title won't work on consoles. But that won't happen as it would be financial suicide at the moment. So we are stuck in a situation of the PC under delivering what it is capable of because the market is not big enough to support the investment needed to use that extra power, but due to it under performing the market never gets any bigger. Catch 22 or what.

But console gamers be warned you will be having the same problem soon as there is a bigger gaming market than even yours arriving soon. I expect ID to be mainly focusing on mobile devices next time around, making all their staff play the game with the touch interface before using a joypad. Damn those awful mobile ports.