Publishers Wanted Life is Strange Devs to Make Leads Male

[joshuaayt]

I have absolutely no trouble believing this- I'm sure they could have found other publishers who would have allowed it also, but that they had trouble finding one? Very believable.
Certainly, it fits with other stories we've heard about publishers and female characters.

 

[ZodiacBraves]

I liked Remember Me, I bought it on sale for 10 dollars and although there were some really clunky moments in the game, I found the combo customization to be unique, the story pretty solid, and the setting to me amazing. I look forward to this game.

 

[Andy Shandy]

It's sad but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest, taking into account the games industry's previous like Dontnod's previous problems [http://www.joystiq.com/2013/03/20/publishers-rejected-remember-me-because-of-female-lead/] with Remember Me and Naughty Dog's troubles [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/121064-Naughty-Dog-Flat-Out-Refused-to-Change-Last-of-Us-Cover] with The Last Us [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123139-Devs-Had-to-Demand-Female-Focus-Testers-for-The-Last-of-Us]. Hell, it took until Mass Effect 3 to even get BestShep on the cover [http://kotaku.com/5812762/female-shepard-finally-gets-cover-girl-glory-in-mass-effect-3]. It's not been said often lately, but lucky that Square Enix were there so that Dontnod could go with their artistic vision.

Also fuck all y'all I thought Remember Me was great. Definitely interested in Life Is Strange too.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Thats neat, but I just really hope that the game doesnt suck a huge mountain of ass like Remember Me. Luckily it looks like theyre ditching combat in this one, which was one of the biggest problems with Remember Me, the garbage combat

 

[Nurb]

Most people don't care about it, only marketing people do. Sure as hell didn't stop people from loving other games that came out recently.

If it really mattered, sales of games like Mirror's Edge would be abysmal and Metroid wouldn't even be remembered.

It's all executive bullshit that once again gets in the way of what consumers really want or care about.

Though Remember Me was completely forgetable because of the blandness. No amount of character tweaks could have saved that.

 

[Vigormortis]

Well from the Escapist article the direct quote is this:

"Square was basically the only publisher that didn't want us to change a single thing about the game," Dontnod co-founder Jean-Maxime Moris says in a new developer diary. "We had other publishers telling us, 'Make it a male lead character' and Square didn't even question that."

At least some publishers were telling them to change the gender of the character, but the quote is vague on how many, and it could very well be the case that other publishers were fine with the gender but wanted other things to change which they weren't prepared to negotiate with.

It does happen, and both the developers of Bioshock Infinite and The Last of Us found difficulties in having such prominent female characters (Elizabeth was removed from the front cover by Marketers and replaced with shotgun totting Booker, and Naughty Dog had to fight the marketers to keep Ellie in a prominent cover position, and to get female game testers to play the game during marketing - because they normally just use guys.)

It's unfortunate, and it's hopefully changing with attitudes, but we have to be careful not to vilify every game and claim stuff like every publisher refuses to make games if they have female leads (because that is provably historically false)

Agreed.

It's maddening that many publishers are so pointlessly nervous about allowing such creative freedom, or that a design decision like a character being female or male needs to be weighted against the notion of creative freedom.

And for me, the more vague a comment is, like the one in the OP, the more PR stink it tends to have.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

Oh, I never said it was a conspiracy. I'm just skeptical that a dev would run into the exact same issue twice, even though they found publishers willing to go with their intended vision previously. Especially when they claim no other publisher would accept their original designs.

This is why I believe their statements are either part of a PR stunt or they simply didn't approach that many publishers with their project.

Well of course they would run into the same issue twice. A lot of the time doing something over gets you the same response. It's not like things have really changed much between now and then. The fact that it happened before doesn't make it less likely to happen again. You also hear this now and then from other places, so you know I would have been skeptical if they said they didn't have people telling them to change the MC.

 

[Baresark]

I'm going to call bullshit on this actually. It may be true but I can't be the only one who thinks it's strange they would tell the exact same tale as they did with Remember Me. This is the exact same story.

That said, if this is true, publishers are idiotic for even suggesting such a thing. It does sound like other suggestions for change were on the board from a lot of publishers, it's strange that Square Enix didn't want them to change a thing when a lot of other developers wanted them to change things. But realistically, the sex of the protagonist in any game is 100% inconsequential.

PS. I went back and checked to be sure. Here is a link for an insanely similar story regarding Remember Me.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-19-why-publishers-refuse-games-such-as-remember-me-because-of-their-female-protagonists

 

[Erttheking]

And the the quality of the game and the gender of the main character is connected how?

Never implied it was.

Remember me would have been bad regardless of the gender of the main character.

However games with female leads don't sell as well, according to marketing departments anyway.

In my defense you were being a bit misleading. By making that comment in this thread, particularly with the "publishers have more experience selling games here" you made it kind of look like you were defending their position. As it stands now your comment overall is...kind of off topic, so forgive me if it threw me off.

It's been stated already, but I'll say it again. It's a self fulfilling prophecy with them. They say X games don't sell, and don't market them, so they don't sell. They also say horror games don't sell because...I have no idea, really I think they just decided it one day. Then Alien Isolation came along and showed that they were talking out of their asses on both accounts.

Managed to move 1.5 million copies, not counting Steam sales, which frankly is nothing short of a miracle since it came out when the bad taste of Colonial Marines was still fresh in people's mouths.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I'm starting to think what the industry's problem with women is. It's not that they exploit women, if anything they don't exploit them enough due to what seems like a crippling fear of cooties. Seriously, even trying to do "sex sells" with them doesn't seem to work as if anything they seem to fear that they'll be hypnotized by evil boob magic.

Anyway, saying this (more) seriously, it does come off to me like the West has a SERIOUS problem acknowledging women in any capacity, whether it be as an audience or as characters. This doesn't even extend to main characters as even as supporting characters women have trouble being recognized or being taken in a serious capacity. And that's not a good thing considering how it has repeatedly been proven that women are only going to keep growing as an audience in gaming while the "white 16-30 heterosexual male" audience is going to at best remain static. But then again, actually having to diversify and be creative is something that the industry is even more afraid of.

 

[Redryhno]

In my defense you were being a bit misleading. By making that comment in this thread, particularly with the "publishers have more experience selling games here" you made it kind of look like you were defending their position. As it stands now your comment overall is...kind of off topic, so forgive me if it threw me off.

It's been stated already, but I'll say it again. It's a self fulfilling prophecy with them. They say X games don't sell, and don't market them, so they don't sell. They also say horror games don't sell because...I have no idea, really I think they just decided it one day. Then Alien Isolation came along and showed that they were talking out of their asses on both accounts.

Managed to move 1.5 million copies, not counting Steam sales, which frankly is nothing short of a miracle since it came out when the bad taste of Colonial Marines was still fresh in people's mouths.

To be fair, AI dragged on about three hours longer than it should've and was way too in love with its mini-games and grating sequences to be considered much more than a decent horror game(seriously, the Alien stopped being scary and became "THIS SHIT AGAIN", I got more scared of having to replay something than dying). About the only thing I can say on it though, was that the art team deserved every bit of praise they got, as well as all the bonuses they probably didn't. They nailed the feeling and motif of the 80's future from the original movie.

Not to mention, people were pissed about CM because of the bullshit behind the scenes, he said, she said of the Gearbox/Sega drama and the false advertising of the build that was shown compared to the actual game.

Isolation was released as a horror game and people always want a horror game, but didn't have great expectations since the license was attached to it that hasn't had many true to the material games in the twenty years it's been out. Overall, people had very low expectations and were incredibly surprised that a horror game that didn't have Konami or Frictional connected to it was decent.

 

[Vigormortis]

Well of course they would run into the same issue twice. A lot of the time doing something over gets you the same response. It's not like things have really changed much between now and then. The fact that it happened before doesn't make it less likely to happen again. You also hear this now and then from other places, so you know I would have been skeptical if they said they didn't have people telling them to change the MC.

What I mean is, they had this issue previously, so they should know which publishers to go to that wouldn't take issue with their lead characters.

Their options may have been limited in that regard, but if that be the case why make such a public statement of surprise that they ran into that situation again? Should not they have seen it coming?

Also: read some of my other posts in this thread. They may clarify my position a bit more.

Nothing personal, but I don't want to keep repeating myself.

Also: Also: Things have changed within the industry in the last few years. Quite a lot, in fact.

There's a lot left to address, but if we ignore the changes that have been made we undermine the effort. Both the industry's and our own.

 

[Lil_Rimmy]

Female lead, male lead, I don't care as I'm not actually interested in the game and won't buy it. What does keep grabbing my attention is that they, and gaming sites, seem to taking loading quick saves and calling it a game mechanic. I'm not saying they shouldn't, but if that's the only big draw for the game when it comes to what you can do while playing, I'm really finding it hard to have any interest.

I laughed pretty damn hard at this. It makes a lot of sense. The main mechanic I thought was pretty cool , as far as I can tell, it's see something go horribly wrong or mess something up and then rewind time. I'm guessing it would be set in either a Telltale like or Beyond: Two Souls kind of format where you can choose what to say, figure it out, and then rewind and say everything correctly.

So, basically quick loading. Hehehe, you deserve a cookie for that one.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Well, of course they didn't. If there's one thing you can say about Japan, it's that they don't shy away from female leads. Of course, they frequently have the female leads in skimpy outfits and do frequent panty shots, but they still have female leads.

Yeah, we in the west are the same, what with Lara Croft for example. The embarrassing thing is, for all their skimpy outfits, Japan kinda puts us to shame in the department of gender equality. It's easy to look at something like Kill la Kill and judge it for its ridiculously revealing outfits and panty-shots etc. but when it comes down to it, the 5 most important characters in it are all female, they're all strong, brave and independent and they don't even mention relationships; there's no giggling about guys or anything. Plus all the men in that anime get naked too, which is fair.

That is true. Kill la Kill is an equal opportunity offender(unlike that dirty Bakemonogatari)

Spoiler

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Ya know, PR stunt or not, it still sounds all too real to me, and you can blame the industry for that coz they did a lot of damage to my good will towards them. Not the entire industry, but a frikking lot of it.

And goddamm, the stench of hypocrisy is heavy in the air. All these people saying something shouldn't be shoehorned in to protect creative freedom are mysteriously absent when it's guys being shoehorned in. As if it's perfectly fine when men are shoehorned in, developer vision be damned? That's basically what they're saying.

"Oh, we shouldn't have a checklist!"
Da fuck do people think "straight white male" is? A damn checklist! HYPOCRITES!

It grinds my gears, I tell ya.

I've seen posts elsewhere on this topic, and people blab out the same ol'shit
"Women shouldn't be shoehorned in!" apparently said by people who didn't read the article coz women were originally IN, and they were in danger of being taken out! Unless "show horned in" means "shouldn't exist!"

Usual "I don't care about gender" then little else, but usually said in a way totally dismissive of the fact that developer vision was being tampered with. Sounds a lot to me like they're okay with women being shunted out of a game that's built with them as the protagonist.
Then again, this shit doesn't happen to male leads, does it? Being replaced by women mid production process? I gotta wonder if they'll same the same thing when it's men replaced by women as played characters. As if that'd ever happen to begin with?

People bitching about people complaining about women's representation when WHY people are complaining is so readily damn apparent?

People saying "who cares?!" coz it's easy not to care when you're getting the better part of the deal?

I'll admit that lately there's been a good upswing in female protagonists, but I gotta point out that it's largely in non-AAA mid to low budget gaming. Progress is progress, but I ain't planting a flag and shouting victory just yet.

/rant

 

[blackrave]

But is this game any good?

That is only question that bothers me.

If the game is bad, I won't play it even if protagonist is most original character ever.
Why? Because game is BAD.
Similarly, if game is good, I don't mind bland and boring protagonist.

 

[Bat Vader]

I can see the door swinging both ways with this. I can see it being a PR stunt but at the same time I also believe them when they say some publishers wanted them to change the character male.

 

[JarinArenos]

I'm going to call bullshit on this actually. It may be true but I can't be the only one who thinks it's strange they would tell the exact same tale as they did with Remember Me. This is the exact same story.

Same game company approaches the same publishers, gets the same response? This is hardly unbelievable. It's far more likely that game companies get this all the damn time but nobody brings it up, because it's so common (and probably mixed in amongst all sorts of other bullshit publisher requests). It's more likely this studio is bringing it up again, the same way, because it drew attention to them last time too.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Ya know, PR stunt or not, it still sounds all too real to me, and you can blame the industry for that coz they did a lot of damage to my good will towards them. Not the entire industry, but a frikking lot of it.

And goddamm, the stench of hypocrisy is heavy in the air. All these people saying something shouldn't be shoehorned in to protect creative freedom are mysteriously absent when it's guys being shoehorned in. As if it's perfectly fine when men are shoehorned in, developer vision be damned? That's basically what they're saying.

"Oh, we shouldn't have a checklist!"
Da fuck do people think "straight white male" is? A damn checklist! HYPOCRITES!

It grinds my gears, I tell ya.

I've seen posts elsewhere on this topic, and people blab out the same ol'shit
"Women shouldn't be shoehorned in!" apparently said by people who didn't read the article coz women were originally IN, and they were in danger of being taken out! Unless "show horned in" means "shouldn't exist!"

Usual "I don't care about gender" then little else, but usually said in a way totally dismissive of the fact that developer vision was being tampered with. Sounds a lot to me like they're okay with women being shunted out of a game that's built with them as the protagonist.
Then again, this shit doesn't happen to male leads, does it? Being replaced by women mid production process? I gotta wonder if they'll same the same thing when it's men replaced by women as played characters. As if that'd ever happen to begin with?

People bitching about people complaining about women's representation when WHY people are complaining is so readily damn apparent?

People saying "who cares?!" coz it's easy not to care when you're getting the better part of the deal?

I'll admit that lately there's been a good upswing in female protagonists, but I gotta point out that it's largely in non-AAA mid to low budget gaming. Progress is progress, but I ain't planting a flag and shouting victory just yet.

/rant

That is the thing; even if it IS a PR stunt (which it probably isn't), it doesn't change the fact that this sounds so much like something publishers would do that it just shows how big of a problem things are. Heck, I would also like to lump devs in with that mix because a lot of them seem to have trouble even acknowledging that women exist.

At the end of the day, more women in gaming (whether in the industry or just as fictional characters) just means a better and more diverse industry from a creative standpoint. It means we might get more diverse GAMES which is something keep complaining that we don't have more of.