Rage Cuts Single-Player When You Buy It Used

[Dirzzit]

New: 69.99$
Used: 64.99$

Hey id,gamestop? Fuck you.

 

[orangeban]

The way I see it, most of these discussions will be irrelevant by the next (true) console generation anyways. Direct Download is already becoming the norm on PC, and Microsoft and Sony have been testing these waters for a while with their ever increasing XBL marketplace and Playstation Network, respectively. I fully expect the next console generation to downplay, if not all together cut out, physical discs. So the problem with competing with the used market won't be anywhere near what it is now, but I expect always-on DRM will become the standard since you have to be online to download the titles in the first place.

Maybe online download is standard for us gamers who are seriously in to the hobby (we're are on the Escapist after all) but I reckon you're average punter (which could be a middle aged guy who likes Madden, a mum who likes COD or someones sister who enjoys Viva Pinata, but only as fun things, they don't care that much about gaming) buy from shops, because you go on steam to buy games, and you do so with that specific goal in mind. But you don't plan to head to the shops, spot a bargain in your local GAME buy it and nab a good used game deal at the same time.

 

[orangeban]

New: 69.99$
Used: 64.99$

Hey id,gamestop? Fuck you.

$69.99 for new? Geez, here in Britain £40 is expensive, £35 is average and £30 is alright.

From this I can only establish that (even factoring in exchange rates) British people totally have it better off than Americans (unless your Canadian or something, but I've seen definite Americans talk about $60 games). Nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah

 

[Dirzzit]

New: 69.99$
Used: 64.99$

Hey id,gamestop? Fuck you.

$69.99 for new? Geez, here in Britain £40 is expensive, £35 is average and £30 is alright.

From this I can only establish that (even factoring in exchange rates) British people totally have it better off than Americans (unless your Canadian or something, but I've seen definite Americans talk about $60 games). Nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah

Yea I have a dollar sign, must be American!

 

[xXAsherahXx]

I think It's fair to cut shit from used games. The companies need to make some money too. I know they already do because somebody has to make it a used game, but it helps fill in the gap.

If the part cut is just a small sliver that most players don't get to, I'm perfectly fine with it, and this is coming from a guy who usually buys used anything from CDs to shoes to guitars to lava lamps.

Fuck the companies for pricing games too goddamn high (I'm from the Rent is too High Party).

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Considering that used games are just as wasted as pirated copies, I see no problem.

How is it the same? If it's bought used you just transfer ownership to someone else, but if it's pirated multiple people get that same ownership with no transfer. It's like if I bought a book and made photo copies of it, multiple people get the copy while I still have the original. Learn the difference before you say something like that man.

 

[silversun101]

The way I see it, most of these discussions will be irrelevant by the next (true) console generation anyways. Direct Download is already becoming the norm on PC, and Microsoft and Sony have been testing these waters for a while with their ever increasing XBL marketplace and Playstation Network, respectively. I fully expect the next console generation to downplay, if not all together cut out, physical discs. So the problem with competing with the used market won't be anywhere near what it is now, but I expect always-on DRM will become the standard since you have to be online to download the titles in the first place.

Maybe online download is standard for us gamers who are seriously in to the hobby (we're are on the Escapist after all) but I reckon you're average punter (which could be a middle aged guy who likes Madden, a mum who likes COD or someones sister who enjoys Viva Pinata, but only as fun things, they don't care that much about gaming) buy from shops, because you go on steam to buy games, and you do so with that specific goal in mind. But you don't plan to head to the shops, spot a bargain in your local GAME buy it and nab a good used game deal at the same time.

True, but Facebook and iPod has brought all sorts of non gamers into the fold and these games offered are ENTIRELY digital in their distribution. In that sense, these more "casual" gamers have been conditioned from the beginning to be perfectly comfortable with downloading a game as opposed to buying a physical copy. I work with a girl who has an entire library of iPod games she's downloaded and plays who has never considered buying a console. I think it is we who have grown up with the medium from its fledgling stages who might be the most resistant to a digital distribution-only console.

 

[TheCommie12]

are id trolling us now? combine that with the ridiculous HDD requirements and now this, I think that I might just not buy it

 

[Athinira]

Next time I want to buy a used Mercedes, I'll call official Mercedes dealership to ask them if they're gonna cut my brakes if I don't give them a piece of that action.

This is fuckin' stupid. Stop punishing gamers already. This kind of behavior can only increase piracy.

Or you could, you know, buy the game new and actually support the developer?

You could also buy your Mercedes new and support the manufacturer instead of buying it used.

Same logic after all, right?

Resales happens and the industry should just deal with it. When you buy and own something, it's perfectly normal to be able to sell it to someone else for a reduced price once you don't need it anymore. The developer was already supported when the game was bought originally, and removing the ability to purchase a used copy isn't a guarentee that someone is gonna pay the full price for a new copy (ESPECIALLY not for games where the developers refuse to drop the price after the game has aged quite a bit. To give an example, it took Valve a VERY long time to drop the price on Left 4 Dead 1+2 to a reasonable level).

Trying to prevent the above is, like the guy you quoted said, just gonna lead to an increase in piracy. You can resell almost everything in this world. Why should games be an exception?

 

[Aprilgold]

If you buy it used, you ain't supporting the developers, just like the pirates do. Don't see anything wrong with it, as long as this new little feature doesn't affect the legit buyers.

Heres my issue on that statement, if its such an issue, why don't they legally stop allowing people to buy it used. Its basically the worst type of DRM because I still bought the game, therefore, I should play its content as a whole, instead of a FUCKING game that locks all that away if I didn't buy it new.


Used games are not piracy. Piracy is basically to where NO money is spent, regardless of anything. With a used game, some still goes back to the publisher, but way less then what they should be getting.

Basically, publishers and Dev's in some cases are throwing hissie fits to fight an un-winnable war, it don't matter HOW hard you try, you can't sue every god damn pirater in the world, let alone fine ones who still bought your game. This is the literal reason consoles will die, because gamers from there will hop to PC because it became a first come, first serve type deal. I can only get 90% of the games content unless I get it new, on launch. As stupid as that sounds alone, it will happen, its inevitable, why? Because gamers are still taking this shit up the ass like a champ.

Guys, we really don't have to stand for this. Just get a gaming PC, and Steam or Origin, then you can buy whatever game you could ever want. DRM free.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

The thing that irritates me the most about this war on the second hand market is the way that so many people have fallen for the "If you don't buy it new, it's the same as piracy because you're not supporting the developers" argument.

Let's examine that for a minute, shall we. As I understand it, developers do not receive a commission on copy of the game sold. The employees at a development studio are paid their nominal salary for working on a title, and if the game sells well enough, the expectation is that they are given a bonus for their success. No, the people who receive the commissions on first hand sales are the publishers. The connection with developers here is that publishers are responsible for funding development, providing marketing and providing said bonuses on success. So the only argument that can realistically be made to state that developers are hurt by secondhand sales rests on the notion that if publishers don't make enough money, they can't fund development.

But here's the thing. No matter how many copies of the game get shifted, publishers are STILL cutting studios. Take Homefront for example: average game that surprisingly enough sold a million copies. Not a critical success, but surely a financial one. What happens to the studio? They're closed by the publisher. Or take the Modern Warfare 2 drama, where one of the biggest selling games in history should have seen its developers rewarded with bonuses, but according to documents filed in court they withheld those bonuses until they could guarantee speedy completion of Modern Warfare 3. Used game sales are not screwing over developers: PUBLISHERS are screwing over developers, and in cases where used game sales clearly cannot even be considered a causal link.

So what we have is a situation where the publishers, with no small amount of input from certain loyal developer heads and a subsection of the gaming press (particularly Penny Arcade), have created a scapegoat for the cuts that they are forcing upon studios, and have cleverly marketed it in the gaming media by exploiting the idea of the struggling developers, something they are responsible for. The Bobby Koticks of the world get to milk their brands dry, throw the corpse of the developer aside and go home with a pat on the back and a commendation from Forbes magazine for a shrewd eye for business, and yet they've engineered it so that enough people actually blame the consumer for the fate of developers. The fact that more people don't see through this just yet astonishes me.

Oh god yes someone gets how game devs are paid and who makes the money from game sales. And I want to ask this for anyone who doesn't believe him. Odds are is it the publisher who is complaining or the developer who is complaining? Because I mostly read about publishers complaining about second hand sales

I see no problem with this. Buying used is metaphorically the worst thing you can do to a company.

Used copies give zero funds to the developers.

Except developers are funded the the money from publishers, and the sales of games go to the publishers. So that argument has a few holes that make it pointless, look at the people who made Modren Warfare 2, did you see how it sold. And why did the company close? Beacuse the publishers (Activison) didn't pay them the money they were owed because the game sold so well (Not I said sold well). Care to explain that?

 

[orangeban]

New: 69.99$
Used: 64.99$

Hey id,gamestop? Fuck you.

$69.99 for new? Geez, here in Britain £40 is expensive, £35 is average and £30 is alright.

From this I can only establish that (even factoring in exchange rates) British people totally have it better off than Americans (unless your Canadian or something, but I've seen definite Americans talk about $60 games). Nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah

Yea I have a dollar sign, must be American!

Wow, easy there, didn't mean to offend. I only assumed American because the only other countries I know of with $ signs are Canada and Australia. And I acknowledged that you could be Canadian (but pointed out that people from the USA talk about $60 games anyway) and I thought all Aussies had like $100 games or something. Call me ignorant.

P.S. though I just remembered New Zealand has dollars as well. Crap.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Considering that used games are just as wasted as pirated copies, I see no problem.

How is it the same? If it's bought used you just transfer ownership to someone else, but if it's pirated multiple people get that same ownership with no transfer. It's like if I bought a book and made photo copies of it, multiple people get the copy while I still have the original. Learn the difference before you say something like that man.

I guess hamster's suck at basic logic.

I was talking about this with the one of the dudes from my local game store, and how buying a used game transfer that one copy to one person, but piracy transfers that one copy to multiple people. "Gamers" worry me, oh and to all those who hate second hand stores; I bought Little Big Planet 2 from Blockbuster how does that make you feel? And if second hand sales were illegal I wouldn't be able to get my Shin Megami Tensi games which means I wouldn't have known about the series meaning I wouldn't have bought any of the new games (And I by my atlus games new). So think about that, it can help people get into a series.

 

[orangeban]

The way I see it, most of these discussions will be irrelevant by the next (true) console generation anyways. Direct Download is already becoming the norm on PC, and Microsoft and Sony have been testing these waters for a while with their ever increasing XBL marketplace and Playstation Network, respectively. I fully expect the next console generation to downplay, if not all together cut out, physical discs. So the problem with competing with the used market won't be anywhere near what it is now, but I expect always-on DRM will become the standard since you have to be online to download the titles in the first place.

Maybe online download is standard for us gamers who are seriously in to the hobby (we're are on the Escapist after all) but I reckon you're average punter (which could be a middle aged guy who likes Madden, a mum who likes COD or someones sister who enjoys Viva Pinata, but only as fun things, they don't care that much about gaming) buy from shops, because you go on steam to buy games, and you do so with that specific goal in mind. But you don't plan to head to the shops, spot a bargain in your local GAME buy it and nab a good used game deal at the same time.

True, but Facebook and iPod has brought all sorts of non gamers into the fold and these games offered are ENTIRELY digital in their distribution. In that sense, these more "casual" gamers have been conditioned from the beginning to be perfectly comfortable with downloading a game as opposed to buying a physical copy. I work with a girl who has an entire library of iPod games she's downloaded and plays who has never considered buying a console. I think it is we who have grown up with the medium from its fledgling stages who might be the most resistant to a digital distribution-only console.

Yeah, it's kinda tricky. Let's assume I was talking about some kind of sweet-spot between iPod/Facebook only gamers, and surfing steam/Xbox Live/Psn gamers. Though to be fair on me, that sweet-spot probably does exist.

Basically, I don't think it would be worth it for consoles to cut out disks. I mean, I bought a game in disk form in a shop because it was really cheap (and no, it wasn't used, just old) and I wouln't of ever considered looking for that game on steam, I just happened to get it because I saw it was going cheap.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

If you buy it used, you ain't supporting the developers, just like the pirates do. Don't see anything wrong with it, as long as this new little feature doesn't affect the legit buyers.

Heres my issue on that statement, if its such an issue, why don't they legally stop allowing people to buy it used. Its basically the worst type of DRM because I still bought the game, therefore, I should play its content as a whole, instead of a FUCKING game that locks all that away if I didn't buy it new.


Used games are not piracy. Piracy is basically to where NO money is spent, regardless of anything. With a used game, some still goes back to the publisher, but way less then what they should be getting.

Basically, publishers and Dev's in some cases are throwing hissie fits to fight an un-winnable war, it don't matter HOW hard you try, you can't sue every god damn pirater in the world, let alone fine ones who still bought your game. This is the literal reason consoles will die, because gamers from there will hop to PC because it became a first come, first serve type deal. I can only get 90% of the games content unless I get it new, on launch. As stupid as that sounds alone, it will happen, its inevitable, why? Because gamers are still taking this shit up the ass like a champ.

Guys, we really don't have to stand for this. Just get a gaming PC, and Steam or Origin, then you can buy whatever game you could ever want. DRM free.

....Steam is a form of DRM fyi. And now all console games use this stupid method, I agree with you gamers of consoles (including me) need to stop buying games that use any system like this. And if that means I miss out on mass effect 3 on my xbox...then so be it, I won't let my love of a series out weigh my basic principle rights to resale something legally. Also you kinda sound like you want people to just ditch consoles like a PC fan boy would say (not calling you one that's just how it came off to me, if that offended you well I won't say sorry but I'm not trying to call you one).

 

[feather240]

It just occurred to me that there isn't a used market for PC games so I'd have to buy it new anyway. I don't care about project ten dollar anymore. I barely care about DRM thanks to modding and piracy. I never really understood what people meant by console peasant until now.

 

[orangeban]

Considering that used games are just as wasted as pirated copies, I see no problem.

How is it the same? If it's bought used you just transfer ownership to someone else, but if it's pirated multiple people get that same ownership with no transfer. It's like if I bought a book and made photo copies of it, multiple people get the copy while I still have the original. Learn the difference before you say something like that man.

I guess hamster's suck at basic logic.

I was talking about this with the one of the dudes from my local game store, and how buying a used game transfer that one copy to one person, but piracy transfers that one copy to multiple people. "Gamers" worry me, oh and to all those who hate second hand stores; I bought Little Big Planet 2 from Blockbuster how does that make you feel? And if second hand sales were illegal I wouldn't be able to get my Shin Megami Tensi games which means I wouldn't have known about the series meaning I wouldn't have bought any of the new games (And I by my atlus games new). So think about that, it can help people get into a series.

I like that logic, that's a good way of thinking about it, presuming I've got the gist of it.

So what you're saying is, Man buys game, Man sells game to Woman (just using random terms to differentiate). So before the selling, Man had 1 game, Woman 0. After selling, Man 0, Woman 1. So the developer has lost nothing. Is that what you are saying?

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Considering that used games are just as wasted as pirated copies, I see no problem.

How is it the same? If it's bought used you just transfer ownership to someone else, but if it's pirated multiple people get that same ownership with no transfer. It's like if I bought a book and made photo copies of it, multiple people get the copy while I still have the original. Learn the difference before you say something like that man.

I guess hamster's suck at basic logic.

I was talking about this with the one of the dudes from my local game store, and how buying a used game transfer that one copy to one person, but piracy transfers that one copy to multiple people. "Gamers" worry me, oh and to all those who hate second hand stores; I bought Little Big Planet 2 from Blockbuster how does that make you feel? And if second hand sales were illegal I wouldn't be able to get my Shin Megami Tensi games which means I wouldn't have known about the series meaning I wouldn't have bought any of the new games (And I by my atlus games new). So think about that, it can help people get into a series.

I like that logic, that's a good way of thinking about it, presuming I've got the gist of it.

So what you're saying is, Man buys game, Man sells game to Woman (just using random terms to differentiate). So before the selling, Man had 1 game, Woman 0. After selling, Man 0, Woman 1. So the developer has lost nothing. Is that what you are saying?

In a since yeah because that one game is still floating around, I mean I have an account with Guild Wars, but I never made it. It was an old friend who bought the game and he gave me the account; so I changed the e-mail and password so only I had access to it (plus I bought those awesome expansion packs ). But he gave me his copy so it was still that one, it just changed hands.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

It just occurred to me that there isn't a used market for PC games so I'd have to buy it new anyway. I don't care about project ten dollar anymore. I barely care about DRM thanks to modding and piracy. I never really understood what people meant by console peasant until now.

...Since DRM was on PC first in many forms (Dial a pirate haha), and it's just starting to get on consoles wouldn't that mean that PC gamers were the peasants having to bow down to publishers DRM rules. While the Console Gamers where free to do what they pleased?