Rape Games Banned in Japan

[meisnewbie]

"I've never encountered a game in which the player takes a person, ties them up, and controls every action of pain they inflict upon that person. That is to say, you never get torture simulators, where you are given a large amount of tools to use on a character who is unable to resist, and you take pleasure in causing them hurt and pain; you hear them cry and see them squirm as you put them through simulated agony for amusement. This is how RapleLay is different from your example of, say, Half-Life."

Does this mean you would let an adult PC game such as EXTRAVAGANZA, which has... I think something like 30ish highly graphic and frequently gory rape scenes in it but no direct involvement (i.e. the player presses a button or otherwise has consistent input) be allowed? Or Gore Screaming Show, which is filled with mostly consensual sex, but features brutal maiming and rape as a form of a game over with just as little input?

I know that you've said that those are acceptable (rape is not the goal), but I want to see your reaction to more concrete examples.

Furthermore, what about games along the line of Black Lilith's titles, where yes indeed a women is sold into sexual slavery, abused and otherwise subjected to terrible things, but the player has no direct involvement and is merely a voyeur?

Because under your definition, you would ban Rapelay, and possibly two other games from commercial companies. The rest, I believe would be crappy flash games done on extremely low budgets.

One thing though, I think is unrepresentative is the description of the game on how detailed it is. From my understanding, it's poorly made in every way and is not conductive at all to *actually* planning a rape (Seriously though, read the description again getting bailed out because of rich parents after getting jailed is not happening)

Even more directly to the point, would anyone here support books which tell you how to build bombs? How about books which tell you how to steal them? Do you want to ban those too? Far from pressing a button in order to commit a detestable act, you're quite literally teaching someone?

 

[Eric_Autopsy]

OH NOES TEH RAEPE GAMERS WILL BE SO SAD

 

[The3rdEye]

I'm going to put on my hip waders and reply to both this and it's sister thread by dropping my 2 cents into this boiling collection of tripe. Note that I'm replying to the thread's OP or articles here and am accepting them as accurate. Because I mean, The Escapist wouldn't post gross inaccuracies would they? :shiftyeyes:

That being said and because I can;

SetRant = on

OP "The ban appears to be the culmination of events that began in February, when two copies of the Japanese game RapeLay accidentally appeared on Amazon.com. Despite its nearly immediate removal and the fact that it was designed exclusively for the Japanese market, outrage quickly followed from sources including British Parliament, the New York City Council and the international women's rights group Equality Now."

It is very tempting and would undoubtedly be very easy to cite in the entire "Oh, so violence is ok but don't acknowledge the fact that the 'peepee goes in the bunny hole'" double standard whose issues have been extolled ever since the first digital wang. Therefore, I'm going to pass on restating it, mainly because that argument would be able to support itself no better than aforementioned pixelated wang (I will guess that could be referring to Custar's revenge. For those of you who still think Japan are the only perverts, wiki it).

Part of the problem at hand here is that until the Rapelay games hit amazon I can guarantee that many of the self-appointed enforcers of social morals and justice were not even aware of the (sizable) erotic games market in Japan, or even that you could play erotic games on your home computer at all. And of course where there's sex there's offended people, and if people are going to be getting offended cue some political party to start a ruckus because "if you're not against it you're for it" plus the same bullshit, uneducated, knee-jerk reaction factor as the entire Mass Effect mess, where some uppity news outlet decided to run a story for shock value and viewership because they knew people would react strongly and tune in to their station, not because they wanted to address an issue.

It's a stretch to be applying women's rights (or human rights for that matter) to video games. They are depictions of people, not actual people. The things you do in video games are not actually taking place, they are being depicted by an electronic medium. There is no one inside the box, so step off yours. The viewer is responsible for interpreting the media within their own set of morals. Putting the shoe on the other foot, there are ero games that portray the main character as some two dimensional testosterone powered sex fiend who in an even more bizarre twist has no freaking eyes. I'm trusting any common woman who has played those games to have the common sense and discernment to realize that just because men are depicted that way and also 'loosely' based on the presence of the ocular organs in my skull that I am not some character from a video game and share nothing with that character and that any similarities between the two of us are purely physical and even then insubstantial. If she doesn't the issue is a matter of mental or emotional deficiencies on her part, not that the male character was a rapist.

Coming back around to re-address the issue and attempt to minimize the outrage and backlash that is sure to come from this I'll restate that last line but within the issue's context: Women should trust that any common man who has played those games to have the common sense and discernment to realize that just because women are depicted that way and also 'loosely' based on the presence of A PULSE that women am not some character from a video game and share nothing with that character and that any similarities between the two are purely physical and even then insubstantial. If he doesn't the issue is a matter of mental or emotional deficiencies on his part, not that the female character was raped.

Violent sex acts aren't the problem. Having people that perform violent sex acts is the problem. Having violent sex acts portrayed in a game "thereby implying that it's okay" isn't the problem. Being unable to determine that forcing yourself onto someone is the problem. Having liqueur that can incite anger towards their family in some men isn't the problem. Having men who are unable to control their anger and/or their alcohol intake is the problem.

Of course, all this could be moot and the real topic here could be the addition of restrictions to what can be sold on websites without a viewing age restriction *cough*. Oops, silly me, that wouldn't be news worthy now would it.

In closing; Stop treating the symptom as a cause because it's easier. Figure out how to treat the actual cause.

It's like sticking your tongue to a frozen fence post. You can ***** and complain that it's too cold, that it seemed like a good idea at the time, or that "They told me to" but in the end it was you who decided to stick your tongue on a frozen fence post. Just admit that you're an idiot, figure out why you did it and will never do it again, then resolve to inform other people not to put their tongue on frozen objects, regardless of the reasons. Then I might use warm water to get your moronic self off the post.

SetRant = Off

 

[mike1921]

Ok, I guess -I- will be the first to be against this.
Mostly it annoys me cause it seems more like people whining and being huge babies. Now, I know Japan does not have our government and laws (some we put on em yes, but not all) but still. Its like, why is this allowed but this not when it is very similar. So is games where girls are killed gonna be banned too? What about men/boys? Now yes, obviously few if any are playing these games for anything aside from sexual release, but for all we know it is a better outlet for peole with such fantasies. This is just like violence in gaming and is not going to make people who would not already do it start raping people or stalking them.
Equality Now, based on this they seem PETA-like. (Not a good thing)
Thats my view on this.

Death and rape are wrong no matter how someone spins it. The only difference is that death is more accepted than rape. Either way someone loses something but I would much rather die and keep my dignity. Than lose it to rape.

Not really. I am not comparing Deah to Rape. Im comparing Killing/Murder to Rape. Death would be comparable to Sex in this way. And I would rather be raped and live with the emotional scar and than die too young. Just because YOU would rather die does not mean everyone would. Atleast 1 person doesn't.

They should have the player buy a hooker and play rape games with the hooker. That way rape is not really happening. It is willing submission to rape games. Why play a rape game anyway? Why not just play a hentai game? There is still sex in it.

People actually want rape happening in their games. They don't want their simulation to become a simulation within a simulation. You're making it so it isn't even authentic within their simulation. Also, there are these things known as fetishes, some people wanna play a rape game, not just any game with sex. You're acting as if people playing these games just did because it was the first game they saw with sex.

Murder in games is fine, it's been fine for ages. We love to have epic fights and battles to the death, we always have, that's why we had arena's full of gladiators and that's why a lot of people would support that nowadays so long as everyone was consenting. Hell, even rape in games is fine if it is used for an objective; you show how evil Baddy X is by showing him (without being graphic for the sake of perversion) rape someone, or just sometimes imply he does through camera, speech, whatever. That's fine, rape is such a universal 'no-no' that it is a great way of making you hate a character. It's been used in games before, no-doubt, but if you were to control these sequences, to watch each action take place, to painfully rape a character, to hear their screams and protests, and watch the tears roll down their eyes, then I'd be against it.

.

against it as in you want it banned or against it as in you think it's a bad game? Also, I don't see why having sadism , without bringing it into the real world is a bad thing.

 

[mattttherman3]

Not legally binding? Seems a pointless ruling to me if you can't prosecute people.

 

[13lackfriday]

Urgh, that cover really doesn't help the porno business's case.
Spells out the whole predatory nature of this kind of entertainment...almost as bad as those cases in the US involving men found with pedophilic material who got off on some very shrewd nitpicking on the part of their lawyers.

If this kind of niche entertainment has to exist, they could at least be a little more discreet about it.
They've been around too long, comfortable under the indifference of government.

I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously rape is a horrible and hideous thing, but this is fictionalized rape. It doesn't harm anyone at all. I think that it should still be legal for sale to those who want it.

That's just going to entice people to try the real thing when they're through with the pixels.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Urgh, that cover really doesn't help the porno business's case.
Spells out the whole predatory nature of this kind of entertainment...almost as bad as those cases in the US involving men found with pedophilic material who got off on some very shrewd nitpicking on the part of their lawyers.

If this kind of niche entertainment has to exist, they could at least be a little more discreet about it.
They've been around too long, comfortable under the indifference of government.

I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously rape is a horrible and hideous thing, but this is fictionalized rape. It doesn't harm anyone at all. I think that it should still be legal for sale to those who want it.

That's just going to entice people to try the real thing when they're through with the pixels.

So what you're saying is that we are all potential rapists and it just takes a few pixels to convince us to try the real thing?

What a disgusting look at humanity!

 

[Xshu]

In closing; Stop treating the symptom as a cause because it's easier. Figure out how to treat the actual cause.

Technically, if you get rid of all of the symptoms then there's no longer anything wrong with having the cause. If you have AIDS but you can keep your immune system from breaking down, or you have cancer but you can stop it from growing, then the cause is no longer a real problem. Just my reflexive counter to the old "cut it out from the root" argument.

 

[The3rdEye]

In closing; Stop treating the symptom as a cause because it's easier. Figure out how to treat the actual cause.

Technically, if you get rid of all of the symptoms then there's no longer anything wrong with having the cause. If you have AIDS but you can keep your immune system from breaking down, or you have cancer but you can stop it from growing, then the cause is no longer a real problem. Just my reflexive counter to the old "cut it out from the root" argument.

And it's a good one, I totally agree with you in theory, although with two relatively minor stipulations; using the example of cancer, if you no longer have you medical health impeded or endangered by cancerous growth (and no risk of future progression) do you have cancer or a tissue abnormality? Also, while it is unarguably better than having the disease (and I realize this is off topic but I still enjoy commenting on your position) there would need to be no impact on day to day life in order to maintain that state in order for the solution to be perfect. Good example would be 'treating' (removing all symptoms of) partial kidney failure without the dialysis machine.

But in the end, yes you are right. I'm just pointing out that people seem to only be seeing part of the picture.

 

[jas11262009]

A few things that bother me about this movement. While I agree that these games are extreme and I personally wouldn't play them but where does it end? Will violence be next? Sex? Or perhaps even good old fashioned puzzle games. What I mean is while some people may find these fictional encounters stimulating, others avoid it. It's people that are in control of their actions, not the creators of (again, I emphasize) fictional situations. Perhaps these games could help rape victims cope with their encounters. My point is, where one finds a flaw, others find a tool. When humanity finally evolves past their simplistic notions of what's acceptable and what's not they'll finally grasp reality and understand that no media is to be held accountable for an individuals actions. Think about this for a moment. This genre may be halted but that won't eliminate rape porn found strewn across the internet for 19.95 (random number). All I see accomplished here is a powerful idiotic display of ignorance fueled by further ignorance. The longer I live this life, the more I come to despise humanities current state. This is no different than a witch hunt. I hope that once they've accomplished their illogical goals they'll understand just what fools they've been.

Claim all the idiocies you want about my bold comments. Eventually, mankind will look back at these times and witness just how simple man was, and laugh as we do at those of the past. This vicious cycle will end, but sadly not in my lifetime.

I looked at this post to edit spelling errors and realized that I've finally accomplished my life long dream. To coin a phrase to fully explain my feelings of mankind.

"Mankind will look back at these times and witness just how simple man was, and laugh as we do at those of the past."

So, while this topic may be dark, it brought forth one simple man's dream come true. Perhaps this will allow a few people to realize that even in the darkest of situations, there's always room for enlightenment.

 

[jas11262009]

One other extremely important bit of knowledge I failed to point out.

While eliminating the knowledge of such things as rape and violence you create one very important mistake. You leave those out there with confusing emotions that cannot be revealed to others due to shame and/or fear. You end up creating the monsters you fought so hard to eliminate. Those who will eventually act upon these confusing emotions and create the very situations hidden from mans eyes. While this sounds contradictory to my comment of those being held accountable for their own actions, I must point out that in the one hand the person had a choice and in the other..... You made the choice for them.

So, you can see my reason for my boldness.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I couldn't imagine there being *any* sort of market for this, but then there's honestly very little one could say about the Japanese that would surprise me. Accepting that it does exist however, it's incredible that it took international outrage before the censors board in Japan thought that *maybe* this kind of game is actually inappropriate. And still it reports that it's not actually illegal, merely against the rules of the opt-in ratings board. Hope they do fully illegalise this sort of thing, it has no place on the shelves of game stores.

 

[Sevre]

I read through quite a bit of the thread and I have one thing to say. I'm not touching that.

 

[crypt-creature]

Then here's a question for those people who disagree with the banning of rape games that involve women.
What if they made games where men were being raped by other men, or men/women could rape kids? Do you have a problem with that?
And no, this isn't a stupid point. Rape is rape, no matter who or what it's done too. If a person is against the banning of a game that promotes the rape of a female victim, but if for the banning of a game that has same sex scenarios or kids, then there is something wrong with you.

 

[meisnewbie]

http://zepy.momotato.com/2009/06/02/production-and-sale-of-rape-games-will-be-banned/

The implication here is that while there seems to be a unanamious movement to ban the games, it's still questionable how far they are willing to go.

 

[Nmil-ek]

Then here's a question for those people who disagree with the banning of rape games that involve women.
What if they made games where men were being raped by other men, or men/women could rape kids? Do you have a problem with that?
And no, this isn't a stupid point. Rape is rape, no matter who or what it's done too. If a person is against the banning of a game that promotes the rape of a female victim, but if for the banning of a game that has same sex scenarios or kids, then there is something wrong with you.

You think games like that arent already mass produced check out somethingawful they have a whole review section on shit like that it dose exist en masse in japan.

 

[Zombie_Fish]

Well, I never heard of this genre before today, and am already against it. GO CENSORSHIP!

Also, whilst my opinions on Japan as a country stay the same, I have become shocked by their standards for porn (and entertainment in general) once again.

 

[bad peanut]

Slightly off topic but still in relation to Japan's weird laws. I was told in Japan it is legal to have and distribute child porn but illegal to make it? Weird huh. Kinda poses a paradox. About the game though, I don't think it should be banned and I'm not an advocate for the game. Not much point me putting up a text wall to explain this as it's been done heaps of times on this thread already. Sorry for the bad grammer! In a rush!

 

[crypt-creature]

Then here's a question for those people who disagree with the banning of rape games that involve women.
What if they made games where men were being raped by other men, or men/women could rape kids? Do you have a problem with that?
And no, this isn't a stupid point. Rape is rape, no matter who or what it's done too. If a person is against the banning of a game that promotes the rape of a female victim, but if for the banning of a game that has same sex scenarios or kids, then there is something wrong with you.

You think games like that arent already mass produced check out somethingawful they have a whole review section on shit like that it dose exist en masse in japan.

Never thought they didn't exist, but have personally never heard of any. Which wasn't really the point of my post anyway, since the original post was a little more specific in gender than it was to the over all subject of rape.
Plus I didn't feel the question need to be reworded, it's better to make these types a things a 'what if' question rather than a full blown statement.
And I didn't care

 

[lizards]

I'm someone who argues in favor 99.99999% of the time for the freedom of expression and that a virtual simulation and real life act are completely separate. But I gotta say, It's about damn time.

this particular genre is estimated to make up 10-20 percent of the Japanese PC game industry[/b]

:facepalms

in japan many people like hentai SO...........

:double facepalms