Rape Games Banned in Japan
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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.wow... i was gonna harp on you for quoting wikipedia, but then followed the link to the UN site... shocking stats. maybe it's because you can buy used panties and suchlike from vending machines i dunno. (edit: just double checked, couldn't find USA anywhere on the "Total Prosecuted for Rape" chart (Chart 6.8) might wanna double check and make sure you're using the right chart...) (edit of edit: ok, japan beats us (doesn't sound right but i'll go with it) on reported rapes, and i really need to read all possible sources of info...)Allan Foe said:
As a woman, I'm relieved. As a gamer, I'm perplexed, and a little unsure if my feelings as a person are perhaps a knee-jerk in reaction to "Rape" and gaming content. Lemme explain;
I had no idea that there were "Rape" games sold legally in japan. I knew there were hentai interactive games, but no idea that any featured explicitly rape. Rape is a scary subject for women, and for any that knows a victim of rape, it can enhance the terror. For women that have been victimized in that way... well there's really no comparison. It could be said that any effort to remove the normalization of rape and mistreatment of women is a good thing. Morality prevails.
The devils advocate and gamer in me knows that the same argument can be addressed for violent video games. Violence in murder/death/killing is inarguably worse than rape (though plenty of women may/would disagree), yet the outcry there is marginal.
It's a complicated topic. One could go on and on concerning it. Me? The woman in me wins out. I'm glad that this pile of crap and others like it are banned.
I had no idea that there were "Rape" games sold legally in japan. I knew there were hentai interactive games, but no idea that any featured explicitly rape. Rape is a scary subject for women, and for any that knows a victim of rape, it can enhance the terror. For women that have been victimized in that way... well there's really no comparison. It could be said that any effort to remove the normalization of rape and mistreatment of women is a good thing. Morality prevails.
The devils advocate and gamer in me knows that the same argument can be addressed for violent video games. Violence in murder/death/killing is inarguably worse than rape (though plenty of women may/would disagree), yet the outcry there is marginal.
It's a complicated topic. One could go on and on concerning it. Me? The woman in me wins out. I'm glad that this pile of crap and others like it are banned.
I love how big a deal has been made out of this, when, effectively, nothing is happening. The EOCS (japanesse equivalent of the ESRB) has "banned" rape based porn games.
Current Situation: Porn Games don't get reviewed by EOCS/ESRB, because they're Porn. They know what they're going to be rated, so they ignore the EOCS/ESRB (which is voluntary anyway) and just slap 18+ on their games.
Result of the Ban: Rape-based Porn Games will continue to just slap 18+ on their boxes by themselves, and sell the game anyway.
The "Ban" is just a PR stunt by the EOCS. It makes it so they can say, "See? Look, we -hate- rape and all things based on rape. And rape is bad, so that means we're awesome." It won't have any effect on the creation, or sale of rape games.
Current Situation: Porn Games don't get reviewed by EOCS/ESRB, because they're Porn. They know what they're going to be rated, so they ignore the EOCS/ESRB (which is voluntary anyway) and just slap 18+ on their games.
Result of the Ban: Rape-based Porn Games will continue to just slap 18+ on their boxes by themselves, and sell the game anyway.
The "Ban" is just a PR stunt by the EOCS. It makes it so they can say, "See? Look, we -hate- rape and all things based on rape. And rape is bad, so that means we're awesome." It won't have any effect on the creation, or sale of rape games.
Like an Iain Banks novel, you cannot fight the culture.
Another country's cultural products are their business, it should not be our place to attempt to control or regulate them. Follow the prime directive or be a cultural imperialist, editing the culture of those you deem 'sick'.
Given the already large amount of influence the Western nation-states have had on Japan, I say we leave this issue to the Japanese public, and authorities if there is seen to be a problem on their end.
Another country's cultural products are their business, it should not be our place to attempt to control or regulate them. Follow the prime directive or be a cultural imperialist, editing the culture of those you deem 'sick'.
Given the already large amount of influence the Western nation-states have had on Japan, I say we leave this issue to the Japanese public, and authorities if there is seen to be a problem on their end.
Also, given it is supposedly 10-20 percent of the Japanese gaming market it sounds like a really good idea to further damage their economy even if anything could be done. And that is a big if.
How to reduce the demand when it has grown so large? You cannot fight the culture. Accept it, rape games are here to stay.
How to reduce the demand when it has grown so large? You cannot fight the culture. Accept it, rape games are here to stay.
Mostly on the principle "nothing should be censored unless it directly hurts someone", so FICTIONAL rape shouldn't be censored.Abedeus said:
No, it just means they have a sick fetish they have to keep far away from the real world. Just like you prolly pictured yourself killing someone/thing at some point and didn't, or at the very least wanted to punch them real hard in the jaw. If you think I'm an idiot for this post there's a good chance you're proving my point right now.incubus42 said:
the grammar nazi in me says rapist, the rest of me tells it to shut up and concentrate on the rest of your post.incubus42 said:
People do that all the time, ever hear of BDSM? Also, I love how you say "abuse a female" , like no matter what you do to a guy it's fine but once you do it to a chick you're crossing the line.
I think that being the point where personal freedom ends is ridiculous. A point where no one is harmed.
fetishes. Also that lol at the end makes you look like even more of a noob. Not that you used it mind you, the way you used it.bobski said:
I agree with everything after the first paragraph, and I'd play this game if it seemed more.......I don't know what the word is but if it looked better I'd prolly play it. Yes, I'm agreeing something I'd probably enjoy is sick and frightening.Rylian said:
....so it could appeal to it's audience.nikomas1 said:
Clarkarius said:
Not in anyway the law should care about. They're both games. They're both made for people to masturbate. Sure, one's immoral if translated into real life but so are so many other games.StarStruckStrumpets said:
No, no one bought a copy of GTA for that reason, but it may have lessened frustration that could've killed someone.AngloDoom said:
And , no one bought a rape game just to stop themselves from raping people, they bought it because they have a rape fetish, which is now more satisfied from the game.
Mario jumping on Goombas might technically be murder, but I really wouldn't say it's worse than a rape game where the girls cry and bleed. The fact that you think 90% of games contain murder really just goes to show what kind of games you play. Even ignoring the fact that self-defense is not murder, what about games where the enemies are robots or are already dead (ghosts/zombies/ect)? That's not really murder. I wouldn't say it's murder to kill non-intelligent life like monsters or certain kinds of aliens, either. What about games where most enemies aren't really killed like Donkey Kong Country or Earthbound, or games like Metal Gear Solid 4 where you're actually rewarded for trying to take the non-violent way out? What about sports and puzzle games? Hell, even fighting games rarely involve murder.
Watch the movie 40 Days and 40 Nights for an example. They don't treat it like rape, but it's pretty undeniable that it's what happened. For an example where you don't have to watch a movie: imagine a woman ties a drunk married man to a bed and then strips. He's turned on by her and gets an erection, but if he were free he would get the hell out of there. He isn't, so she has sex with him against his will. Blackmailing someone into having sex with you is also legally rape, which is more a more likely scenario. Then of course there's statutory rape, which is by far the largest category of rape committed by women. Sticking your fingers in a man's ass against his will would also be considered rape in some places. A woman could also coerce a very young child into something like oral sex, which would still be considered rape. It's much rarer than man-on-woman rape, but it does happen. It's very under-reported, though, because men who try to report having been raped are often laughed out of the police station. I recall one report of a man who was raped by a woman and called the police only to have her claim she was the one raped when they got there. Then they arrested him.
Woman can also rape other women. Mostly for power, I imagine, since unless threats are employed I don't see how a woman could force another woman to pleasure her.
Yet, by allowing it, whether we like it or not, we are basically saying "we agree with this".ontherisess said:
I don't believe material which shows an eight-year-old girl, crying, as you as the player shove a virtual cock into her vagina until she bleeds, show be allowed. There's plenty of porn and hentai of such things, so it's not like these games are the only output for these sort of urges.
Also, I think that this is much more likely to encourage people to imitate than some games. Yes, we all know about GTA and it's apparent links to killings which are all very weak connections. However, not many people have access to guns, have the balls to steal a car in broad daylight, or to kill. Killing is, despite what people make out, against our nature for the most part, unless for self-defence, revenge, or similar reasons. However, men are programmed to be strong and domineering, and are more likely to rape than murder. All you need is a weak victim, then you can perform it. You don't need a sawn-off shotgun.
While I don't believe that this game will turn everyone who plays it into a rapist, I can't help but think that it's a damned-sight more likely to make people imitate its actions than GTA; and as such it takes a step toward normalising rape.
I know it's fun for half the people on this forum to take the "I'm cool, alternative, against the general opinion, and Yahtzee rolled in one!" route to express their 'individuality', but if anyone can make a convincing argument to why games whose sole purpose is to show women, or young girls, being raped to allow the person to wank themselves into contentment is the right thing to do, then perhaps I'll be more open to the subject.
And before people say "murder is worse than rape" and "there's lots of murder in games", the fact is that Man-Hunt got a lot of shit for pretty much instructing the player on the best way to kill someone with easily obtainable objects, and this game (from several reviews I have viewed before forming this opinion) seems to show an admittedly exaggerate, but still detailed way on how to rape someone young and easy to intimidate.
For fuck's sake, the game even ends with you raping all the girls so much they begin to like it. The moral of this tale? Girls don't mind rape! It's just them playing hard to get!
That's all I'm saying on this subject.
Let's see, the game hurts no one (digital people don't count) and it allows the player to wank. I don't see anything wrong with that.AngloDoom said:
No, we're not. Idiots will interpret it that way, and I'm really against having to bend over backwards because an idiot will take me standing straight as offensive.AngloDoom said:
"I know it's fun for half the people on this forum to take the "I'm cool, alternative, against the general opinion, and Yahtzee rolled in one!" route to express their 'individuality', but if anyone can make a convincing argument to why games whose sole purpose is to show women, or young girls, being raped to allow the person to wank themselves into contentment is the right thing to do, then perhaps I'll be more open to the subject."
Then my counterargument is how you're supposed to discern rape "as part of gameplay" vs rape "as goal" i.e. the difference between killing enemies in Half Life vs Manhunt. Furthermore, you weaseled yourself out of stating a definitive stance on your own opinion on whether murder is correct when it's the only goal.
So what is it? Should murder simulators be banned too? If so where do we draw the line for that?
Then my counterargument is how you're supposed to discern rape "as part of gameplay" vs rape "as goal" i.e. the difference between killing enemies in Half Life vs Manhunt. Furthermore, you weaseled yourself out of stating a definitive stance on your own opinion on whether murder is correct when it's the only goal.
So what is it? Should murder simulators be banned too? If so where do we draw the line for that?
zoozilla said:
Sort of repeating Xshu here, but - I wouldn't take those statistics at face value. They're official statistics, yes, but only of reported crimes. So many rape cases go unreported because women feel powerless, or that there's nothing that can be done anyway. I can only imagine this would be even more so in a country that, as already pointed out in this thread, women aren't as empowered as in other countries. IMHO, it's not something you can get a definite statistic on.icnfde said:
I won't add anymore as it would just be repeating the same points once again.
Wow, third time the forum error'd when I tried to type my reply. Excuse me if it's rushed; I'm tired.meisnewbie said:
Anyway, I didn't mean to weasel out of any argument there; just something I skipped over without thinking. Thanks for pointing it out anyway, I don't want to walk away after only giving half an opinion.
Okay, not as refined as my last post *grumble*, so I'll just cut to the chase in this one.
I've never encountered a game in which the player takes a person, ties them up, and controls every action of pain they inflict upon that person. That is to say, you never get torture simulators, where you are given a large amount of tools to use on a character who is unable to resist, and you take pleasure in causing them hurt and pain; you hear them cry and see them squirm as you put them through simulated agony for amusement. This is how RapleLay is different from your example of, say, Half-Life.
In Half-Life, you are given nameless, faceless 'Baddies' to take down. They are obstacles to your goal. You press a button, a gun flashes, they sometimes go "ARGH" and other times they go "ARGH" and limp, but most of the time they just slump to the ground. You don't control Freeman as he runs in close, ties them up, and use the cursor to slowly jam bamboo up their fingernails while beating them with a flail. The enemies are nuisances that stay in your way until you explode, shoot, or crowbar them.
Murder in games is fine, it's been fine for ages. We love to have epic fights and battles to the death, we always have, that's why we had arena's full of gladiators and that's why a lot of people would support that nowadays so long as everyone was consenting. Hell, even rape in games is fine if it is used for an objective; you show how evil Baddy X is by showing him (without being graphic for the sake of perversion) rape someone, or just sometimes imply he does through camera, speech, whatever. That's fine, rape is such a universal 'no-no' that it is a great way of making you hate a character. It's been used in games before, no-doubt, but if you were to control these sequences, to watch each action take place, to painfully rape a character, to hear their screams and protests, and watch the tears roll down their eyes, then I'd be against it.
The difference is that one is used as an objective, or road to an objective. The other is celebrating the suffering of a character. Yes, I know, it's virtual and it is causing no harm to that big ol' lump of programming, but why does it even need to be there?
Anyway, I'm tired and I'm going to leave this topic to rest now. I've said my view, others have said theirs, and its obvious at this point that neither side is going to 'convert' the other to their way of thinking, and after a while internet-arguments start to look somewhat childish.
All I aimed to do was to express my opinion on the subject, so I apologise if I at all angered you with my view - all I intended was to express my view.
The New York Times
Japanese Market Plummets
In Japan almost overnight the economy took a turn for the worse as the ban of rape games that made up to 10-20% of the economy was put on a ban.
Japanese Market Plummets
In Japan almost overnight the economy took a turn for the worse as the ban of rape games that made up to 10-20% of the economy was put on a ban.