RE:"free speech"

[jackpipsam]

*slaps self* come on Jack, get back on topic

 

[clipse15]

Most games come from the U.S.

Those that don't are usually Japanese.

Japan doesn't translate and export 99% of their produce.

Do some research before making a thread.

altogether more game come worldwide outside of US, you can still be a retard and know that.
and I am not even talking about that! I am saying if it goes thorough the outside US side won't fail!

please read the topic before answering.

Ooohhhh, so it's no biggy.

Feel free to throw all your made in the U.S games in the bin.

thats fine! I still have my Dragon Age and Zelda!

Dragon Age was published by, wait for it, an AMERICAN company.

But if you're fine with it, post a video of you destroying all the games you own that were made or published in the U.S.

No?

You like some games from the U.S?

Oh, I see.

Get over yourself. The U.S is the primary creator and exporter of video games.

You're fighting a loosing and meaningless battle.

No one cares.

answering questions before others answer it... tisk tisk

besides Biowear moving from EA would be a good thing. move to someone like... hmmm Ubisoft a better dev

You do realize without the US market the profibility of games goes down by a significant margin. Therefore games are very likely not going to have a huge budget like Dragon age. So it really wouldn't matter where you moved Bioware either way it would be an end to any game with a budget.

Look I think Ubisoft has quite a bit of money. I don't think I would change the budget of non-USA games at all. maybe they will get higher budget since it doesn't have to compete with crap like CoD.

Ok then you just have no idea how a market works then. No company will make a big budget game because without the US Market they will have no way of making back that budget. Companies now are already scared to take risks because of this. Erase the US market and you will get more FPS's because atleast those are guaranteed to sell. and your last sentence doesn't even make any kind of sense

No I think we will see more JRPGs, I am not joking. if its just plain FPS then we will have a crash again.

You do know that FPS's sell more then JRPGs right? So now without the US as a huge market share you want to make sure that whatever game you make is going to sell for sure because now you have a huge chance of not making any money. so out of FPS's and JRPGs what do you think game companies are going to make?

I would say facebook games, USA gov would take a while to figer that out hehe!

What does this even mean?

 

[jackpipsam]

People say it'll have a knock on effect on the rest of the world should it be passed. But they also said that about Communism, so who knows?

so true, I still don't think we would be doomed. I can still see many Pros (even if outwayed by Cons) if it goes thorough.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

amaranth_dru has got the answer! however to the sake of this, lets continue!

This is a discussion on what people think, there is no 100% Answer. You can't declare a winner of the thread. Just let people discuss

Kids are not the only problem. Kim Veer Gill (the Dawson Shooter) was not a kid, but he still had problems and shot up a school because of them. Age restrictions on kids may not work, but they aren't the answer either.

The whole point is Freedom of Speech V.S the negative effect of games. The problem is that ever event that occurs where someone becomes violent, they say "he played videogames, THAT caused it!" Now these cases are extremely rare. now when you consider that 11 million people play WoW alone, lets say one person goes nuts and kills someone.

The 10,999,999 people who didn't kill anyone get no press, they are shadows, unseen. That 1 person gets press coverage, is show to the world, and is now the "Violent spokeperson" that people base their opinion off of.

If the government keeps deciding to focus on the 2-3 cases where someone who HAPPENS to play video games and went violent, and keeps ignoring the MILLIONS of people who are normal, then we'll never escape this situation

 

[jackpipsam]

Most games come from the U.S.

Those that don't are usually Japanese.

Japan doesn't translate and export 99% of their produce.

Do some research before making a thread.

altogether more game come worldwide outside of US, you can still be a retard and know that.
and I am not even talking about that! I am saying if it goes thorough the outside US side won't fail!

please read the topic before answering.

Ooohhhh, so it's no biggy.

Feel free to throw all your made in the U.S games in the bin.

thats fine! I still have my Dragon Age and Zelda!

Dragon Age was published by, wait for it, an AMERICAN company.

But if you're fine with it, post a video of you destroying all the games you own that were made or published in the U.S.

No?

You like some games from the U.S?

Oh, I see.

Get over yourself. The U.S is the primary creator and exporter of video games.

You're fighting a loosing and meaningless battle.

No one cares.

answering questions before others answer it... tisk tisk

besides Biowear moving from EA would be a good thing. move to someone like... hmmm Ubisoft a better dev

You do realize without the US market the profibility of games goes down by a significant margin. Therefore games are very likely not going to have a huge budget like Dragon age. So it really wouldn't matter where you moved Bioware either way it would be an end to any game with a budget.

Look I think Ubisoft has quite a bit of money. I don't think I would change the budget of non-USA games at all. maybe they will get higher budget since it doesn't have to compete with crap like CoD.

Ok then you just have no idea how a market works then. No company will make a big budget game because without the US Market they will have no way of making back that budget. Companies now are already scared to take risks because of this. Erase the US market and you will get more FPS's because atleast those are guaranteed to sell. and your last sentence doesn't even make any kind of sense

No I think we will see more JRPGs, I am not joking. if its just plain FPS then we will have a crash again.

You do know that FPS's sell more then JRPGs right? So now without the US as a huge market share you want to make sure that whatever game you make is going to sell for sure because now you have a huge chance of not making any money. so out of FPS's and JRPGs what do you think game companies are going to make?

I would say facebook games, USA gov would take a while to figer that out hehe!

What does this even mean?

It is late... well technology its early! o well.
I mean that Facebook games like farmvill will become even more popular.

 

[jackpipsam]

amaranth_dru has got the answer! however to the sake of this, lets continue!

This is a discussion on what people think, there is no 100% Answer. You can't declare a winner of the thread. Just let people discuss

Kids are not the only problem. Kim Veer Gill (the Dawson Shooter) was not a kid, but he still had problems and shot up a school because of them. Age restrictions on kids may not work, but they aren't the answer either.

The whole point is Freedom of Speech V.S the negative effect of games. The problem is that ever event that occurs where someone becomes violent, they say "he played videogames, THAT caused it!" Now these cases are extremely rare. now when you consider that 11 million people play WoW alone, lets say one person goes nuts and kills someone.

The 10,999,999 people who didn't kill anyone get no press, they are shadows, unseen. That 1 person gets press coverage, is show to the world, and is now the "Violent spokeperson" that people base their opinion off of.

If the government keeps deciding to focus on the 2-3 cases where someone who HAPPENS to play video games and went violent, and keeps ignoring the MILLIONS of people who are normal, then we'll never escape this situation

Link: I WON!
sorry I had too.
but yes your right, however even one death can change the whole battle.
ps. maybe the US government is use this whole battle to make us forget... the money thing and IRAQ!

 

[jackpipsam]

^^^^^
yes I know its a bad joke

 

[jackpipsam]

OMG YES 100 REPLAYS I GET A BADGE NOW!
lol!
just so ya know I didn't do this for the badge

 

[jackpipsam]

srs I didn't!

 

[jackpipsam]

Yes, I know its the biggest market, but that won't stop the market

No, it won't stop the market. But it will encourage it to move into the black market. The world is driven by economics, and developers will not produce games if a profit cannot be reached. While to say that if this law passes it will be the death of gaming is extreme, it is not entirely inaccurate. Far more accurate would be to say it would be the death of mass-gaming. Some developers would continue to make games for a niche market, but they will be relegated to small stores and limited to no marketing, on par with modeling and train sets. something that the wider community doesn't take seriously.

So no, games will continue. But they will lose any chance of one day becoming a respected and accepted medium, on par with literature and TV. It will hurt, alot. No more big corporations will produce games as there is simply not enough consumers available. Plus, with this law passed, it opens the door to more restrictive laws. And this brings us back to the point that corporate interests are what is at stake here. In the end, it is not about what people believe, or what laws are in effect. It is simply of a question of can we make money off it. Cold, I know, but true. The only way to keep gaming alive and evolve beyond a simple market for products is to make it profitable now.

I second all of this.

lol a video game black market... wow people would be that sad just to play a game with blood.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

amaranth_dru has got the answer! however to the sake of this, lets continue!

This is a discussion on what people think, there is no 100% Answer. You can't declare a winner of the thread. Just let people discuss

Kids are not the only problem. Kim Veer Gill (the Dawson Shooter) was not a kid, but he still had problems and shot up a school because of them. Age restrictions on kids may not work, but they aren't the answer either.

The whole point is Freedom of Speech V.S the negative effect of games. The problem is that ever event that occurs where someone becomes violent, they say "he played videogames, THAT caused it!" Now these cases are extremely rare. now when you consider that 11 million people play WoW alone, lets say one person goes nuts and kills someone.

The 10,999,999 people who didn't kill anyone get no press, they are shadows, unseen. That 1 person gets press coverage, is show to the world, and is now the "Violent spokeperson" that people base their opinion off of.

If the government keeps deciding to focus on the 2-3 cases where someone who HAPPENS to play video games and went violent, and keeps ignoring the MILLIONS of people who are normal, then we'll never escape this situation

Link: I WON!
sorry I had too.
but yes your right, however even one death can change the whole battle.
ps. maybe the US government is use this whole battle to make us forget... the money thing and IRAQ!

I ahve no idea what you're talking about... Making us forget?

Your english is hard to follow

And your gratuitous self posting in your own thread has disinterested me from the whole thing

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Also may I remind you this similar situation has happened with music and movies, and thus far we still have violence, sex and other "vulgarities" in both those mediums.
Mostly what we have right now is old culture vs. new culture, happens all the time and will keep happening til the end of humanity or at least until the next mental evolutionary leap.
Watch the opening cinematic for Red Dead Redemption and listen to how the preacher speaks of "flying machines" and the overall progress subtext within the game itself and how some people can't get their heads around how things change. That is the real issue at hand here.
I personally don't think that games themselves are bad in any form (except maybe bad shovelware). Problems exist with or without media.
In Biblical text, it didn't take much of anything for Cain to kill his brother Abel, other than simple jealousy.
But on the other side of things I also think that there is a trend of putting much more emphasis on sex and violence and not enough on aesthetics and story writing. I mean, really did tits make God of War a great game? I remember playing it and wondering what exactly was the reasoning behind it, there was no real plot pushing involved with naked bitches or the whole sex for xp at the beginning. It just seemed arbitrary.
I think the gaming industry needs to put a little more emphasis on bringing the medium out of the big tits/big explosions category, and in some respects is doing so.
I don't have the answer, I just have my thoughts and opinions and as a human being, that is the best any of us can do.

 

[Battenbergcake]

Most games come from the U.S.

Those that don't are usually Japanese.

Japan doesn't translate and export 99% of their produce.

Do some research before making a thread.

I don't know, there are hundreds of games companies in Canada and the UK. There's a strong platform production in the US, due to Microsoft, but I wouldn't say that "most" of the actual games come from there. Most American games producers have international studios as well, so it's hardly like they'd close down. I think it's a massive market that makes it important

OT The reason why it is a big thing is that it could represent a "slippery slope" kinda thing. If it all works in the US, other countries would have precedence to do similar. Although, like some other people already said, it only really means that games will be slapped with an age restriction

Don't forget France.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Yes, I know its the biggest market, but that won't stop the market

Ever heard of a little something called "The Great Depression"?

While this new development will mainly affect the US, it will have repercussions elsewhere. The US is a huge market for games. If you remove part of that market people are going to start focusing on other parts of the market. Look at how Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony are beginning to focus alot of attention on the "casual" gaming market. At that's without certain games being banned. Major game companies will focus most of their effort on the most profitable part of the market. If that part becomes less profitable they will shift their attention. Its not so much the immediate effects as the results down the line.

 

[WOPR]

I think there should be some sort of regulation (as in the parents should do their JOB for once) because I'm tired of hearing little kids whine and whine and whine in games that are rated M and appropriately so (I'm looking at you AvP)

but out and out BANNING it would be going too far and we'd have a repeat of the prohibition thing all over again which we really don't need

so to make sense

drop the law and PARENTS, DO YOUR FREAKING JOB AND DON'T GIVE YOUR 5 YEAR OLD A GRAND THEFT AUTO GAME!

 

[Saltyk]

This is how I see it, if they Supreme Court upholds the law.

Best case scenario
Nothing changes at all, and you just have to show ID to buy a M rated game. Something we already do.

Worst case scenario
Various stores stop selling all M rated games and some T rated games for fear that they might contain the evil violence that the government doesn't want sold to the kiddies (anyone under the age of 18). Sure, you can find M rated games, but only in specialty stores like GameStop or in the back of electronic stores, and in either case, you have to ask for it by name. Buying a M rated game for a minor soon becomes illegal (remember minors are anyone under the age of 18). Even 17 year olds can't buy M rated games (which are rated 17+).

This results in developers such as Bioware, Bungie, Rockstar, and many others from creating such games, or at least selling them in the U.S. This has many long term side effects. Even if the U.S. only makes up 30% of the market, that's a huge loss of revenue! Such games go down in quality. And may go up in price where they are sold. If companies decide that the potential loss in revenue in the U.S. market makes such games undesireable, we may see fewer titles sold even outside of the U.S.

This is the fear. Why do we fear this you ask? Because NO other medium is restricted like this. Not movies. Not books. Not anything. The only things even close to this are porn, alcohol, and cigarettes. The only things that are illegal to sell to minors are porn, alcohol, and cigarettes. To suddenly lump violent video games with such things will set a terrible precedent. If they decide that video games are not protected by the First Amendment, it will turn a growing medium into the kind of trash you see on Skinemax.

This may seem like hyperbole, but I assure you it's not. Allowing the sell of video games to be seen as obscene is a major problem. One that all other mediums have endured. One that they have all overcome. I'm certain that video games will, too.

And remember that the FCC was commissioned to do a report on the movie and music industry rating systems and decided to add the video game industry rating system. In the report they praised the ESRB for having the best system. And found that the video game industry, as a whole, did the best job of preventing underage buyers from purchasing M rated games. So why do we need this law?

 

[HentMas]

Most games come from the U.S.

Those that don't are usually Japanese.

Japan doesn't translate and export 99% of their produce.

Do some research before making a thread.

WHAT?????

nonononono... MOST games are MADE in europe and Japan, then brought and published by U.S based producers, that just means that "Most games ARE released in the U.S." and thats logical seing that its the biggest market for video games there is

once the laws come into place, the producers will just move to more friendly markets, thats it!

probably canada i would love to say "México" but thats not possible.

 

[HentMas]

Most games come from the U.S.

Those that don't are usually Japanese.

Japan doesn't translate and export 99% of their produce.

Do some research before making a thread.

WHAT?????

nonononono... MOST games are MADE in europe and Japan, then brought and published by U.S based producers, that just means that "Most games ARE released in the U.S." and thats logical seing that its the biggest market for video games there is

once the laws come into place, the producers will just move to more friendly markets, thats it!

probably canada i would love to say "México" but thats not possible.

No offense but you are completely off.

According to this list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_developers

The vast majority of big name AAA developers are located in the USA.

First of all... i´m just gonna state that any "wiki" information i get i take it as a lie, because i know wiki is not a reliable source

that said, i find it funny that all the publishers that i "like" are either in Canada, Japan, Germany, UK, etc... so i dont really care anymore if those games are banned in the US

also, in reality, i dont think making a law would change that much, after all, its not a "ban" they want, its a "restriction" wich means "sell games only to their intended audiences" wich most dont do, that just means we as parents are going to show an id to get a game to our kids, thats all.

 

[Falseprophet]

Yeah ... but I kinda agree that violent videogames shouldn't be sold to minors. I mean I wouldn't want my 8 year old going to the cinema and watching the Saw or Hostel movies.

But that's your decision as a parent. Why do you get to make parenting decisions for other people based on your gut without any empirical evidence to back it up?

For fuck sake ... I think we can agree that some videogames shgouldn't be played by minors shouldn't we? If only for their graphic content. At the very least I think we can all agree that it would be nice that videogames are seen in the same light as other forms of artistic expression.

But they're not--they're seen as more damaging or dangerous when there's no evidence to support that.

All other content age-regulation in the US since the 1950s has been done voluntarily by the publishers and retailers themselves. This law would permit direct state censorship. Why should video games be held to a stricter standard than film, music and comic books?

EDIT: Ninja'd:

This is the fear. Why do we fear this you ask? Because NO other medium is restricted like this. Not movies. Not books. Not anything. The only things even close to this are porn, alcohol, and cigarettes. The only things that are illegal to sell to minors are porn, alcohol, and cigarettes. To suddenly lump violent video games with such things will set a terrible precedent. If they decide that video games are not protected by the First Amendment, it will turn a growing medium into the kind of trash you see on Skinemax.

I could not agree more, I think kids should not play GTA. regardless if it does anything to them or not. Kids are growing up too fast, for better and worse.

I disagree--kids are being infantilized more and more by being protected from everything in the world. They're being overscheduled instead of having some freedom to explore their world. They can't even play outside anymore because of overblown fears of child predators. No wonder more and more people live at home well into their 30s.

 

[Chefodeath]

I was watching "Extra Credits" and buy the way they talk is if the law in USA goes through then ALL video games will lose violence ect.
Have they forgotten one thing? USA isn't the only place in the world that makes games ya know.
ok say it goes ahead, they way there speaking (to me anyway)that all the worlds games will share the same fate. ok fine we may not get that many USA games that way, but we still have many world wide devs that will make games.
e.g. Biowear, Ubisoft, Krome, SEGA, Nintendo, ID and of course... Rockstar north.

I under to USA this is a big issue and to them it could(however unlikely) be the end as games as they know it. but please stop making it seem that world will fall with you.

OP, I so rarely get the chance to say this, so I'm going to say it now.

ENGLISH ************ DO YOU SPEAK IT?