Red Dead Redemption Upsets the Irish

[hyperdrachen]

I personally don't advocate the use of stereotypes, considering I hate how Hollywood portrays people from Louisiana as being super-Cajun coons who live on the boondocks. But really, it has to originate from somewhere, and the only person you need to blame is the jackass who started it.

So, screw you, ancestors of every known stereotype. I hope you're proud of the damage you caused.

Or maybe people need to grow up. Get thier head out of thier ass and find for themselves an identity that runs a little deeper than where thier parents are from. Its a fuckin movie/game/wtf ever If your so racist, that you take a dumb character in anything as a personal attack because theyre the same ethnicity as you then you need to work on that. I know there is media out there that is blatently if not intentionally offensive/disrespectful. But even that wouldn't be a problem if REAL people were not so goddamn stupid.

Dave Chappel can go on TV and portray a character that's a raging stereotype, like the husbands in his version of wife swap. The black guy was vulgar, always had a cigarette hanging out his mouth and loved martin lawrence. The white guy, a prude with a nerdy voice and pretty much a wierdo sniffing bras.

Its a sketch, its supposed to be funny, Its using rediculously exagerated characters. Granted there are some people who match these stereo types but here is my point.

If your one of those people that watches stuff like this and laughs at its rediculousness I'm right there with you.

If you one of those people that watches stuff like this and goes WOOOH you know he right, black people are just like that. Your a fuckin moron, leave your house occasionally learn some reality, no The Real World, does not count.

Equally if your one of those people that watches this stuff, and says HOW DARE THEY MAKE FUN OF Black/White/Asian/Hispanic/Irish/Welsh/Martian.... also get bent. Of course I realize the first problem children I mentioned give the second ones some degree of legitimate concern for this media but you need to understand its the idiot that takes it as an accurate picture of a particular ethnic group thats the real problem.

Honestly, grown people do this...

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

http://www.gamesradar.com/f/st-paddys-day-disgraces-six-of-gamings-most-offensive-irish-stereotypes/a-20100317141644212032

Saint Paddy's Day?

Uhm...should that be number 7?

 

[RebelRising]

I thought Amaricans really liked Irish? Or am I generalising... oh no! I am using a steriotype!
Clearly the entire country of Amarica must now take some time off apologising to Ireland so they can make me apologise to them!
I don't get why it is that important really.

Actually, for a long time, 19th century majority of WASP Americans hated all the Irish (and Italians) who immigrated to the U.S. In short, they distrusted what they considered to be uneducated and poor masses who were conspiring to take over the democratic system with authoritarian Catholicism. They were frequent targets of discrimination, beatings, and scapegoating. Sort of like the Jews in Europe, although not quite as bad.

Very true, though in general I think it had more to do with them being a group of refugees. In general refugees tend to be the dumbest, least educated, and poorest people of their respective countries. The influx of Irish in the US was caused by a combination of British rule and a massive crop blight ("the great potato blight", I can't remember the Irish name for it).

This differs from regular immigration due to the numbers all at once, and the fact that the people start out by trying to basically uproot a foreign culture and then plant it right there in the back yard of the US. With time and willing adaption things can change, but it's a slow process.

The same can be said about groups with similar problems. After the Irish you had a massive number of Italian refugees fleeing to the US all at the same time. Due to policies at the time, people who were immigrating "legally" an those "fleeing" were handled differantly. The slander term "WOP" comes from the fact that due to them fleeing as refugees pretty much all of the Italians were told to stand in specific lines which were marked by signs saying "WOP" which stood for "ith apers" so people started to call them "Wops" as a derrogatory comment. I don't think the term exists anymore (at least I don't hear it) but it's an interesting piece of history and sort of explains the situation.


The thing is though that The Irish and The Italians were pretty serious about becoming Americans, and adapted well over a period of time. As such you really don't see much in the way of discimination anymore, unless people are intentionally looking for some kind of fight.

Generally speaking, any time hundreds of thousands or millions of poor, uneducated people migrate to another country there is going to be a massive impact, regardless of whether you accept them (which the US did), or try and keep them out at the border.

Such is my opinion and how I learned things.

I tried to keep it short, but yeah, that's pretty much what it was like back then. The idea was that that type of lower-class, unsophisticated, and uneducated demographic would be susceptible to influences from the old-fashioned ways of Europe and contaminate our society.

And I think that the reason Irish and Italians integrated so well is simply that there was room for them to occupy. There was no shortage of jobs for the working class back in the Industrial Revolution, the frontier was still being explored and settled, and the political realm had enough cracks and fissures, as well as general deregulation, for the interests of the poor immigrants to really be addressed.

But I never knew about that "WOPs" thing. Interesting.

 

[USSR]

snip

Well, that's one of the problems I think. There really isn't any kind of a real "American" stereotype that can be picked on. Probably because we're simply put the greatest power the world has ever known *at this moment in time* (it could change). A lot of the British stereotypes I've seen, seem to have come about AFTER the fall of the British empire when they went from being the most dominating force on the planet, to merely a world power.

There isn't any real american stereotype?
More than %60 of our adult and a good bit of our child population is obese or overweight. As much as you believe we don't, we have an obese stereotype.



In general being "fat and lazy" isn't something specific to Americans, what issues you see there are generally the result of our success. Basically we've built a culture where people are raised with the (not unfounded belief) that they shouldn't have to do hard, physical labour. Being fat is similarly from having more than enough to eat, combined with a lot of technology which means strenuous physical activitiy is something a lot of people have to seek out.

1-No offense, buut..

Success is not an excuse for obesity and/or laziness.

2-Stereotypes aren't implied to be dead on specific.
Just because Americans are stereotyped as fat and lazy, does not mean another can not be stereotyped as that, just as easily.

For example:
Irish- stereotyped as drunks.
Russians- stereotyped as drunks.


To countries where people routinely live more hand to mouth, and doing hard, physical labour is a way of life for pretty much everyone, we can seem fat and lazy, but it can't really be used as an insult because we've been successful enough to build this for ourselves and have managed to hold it for a substantial amount of time without our perceived "decadence" causing us to fall.

Yes, oh yes, it can be used as an insult.
It can imply something as simple as "Americans are not smart enough to watch their diets."


If you've read this far, don't misunderstand. This isn't so much about defending America from slights, or making excuses about it. Simply to point out that it's not the same thing. It's sort of like how you might find people being "Racist" against people from say poor Eastern European countries (Borat, etc...), but in general there really aren't all that many racial slurs or "smackdowns" that can be used against whites that get any kind of response. That's how it is when your dealing with whomever is at the general top of the pole. If the mighty fall... well, things change. I'm sure if the US ceased to be a superpower, and most of the Western World because secondary to the Eastern one, we'd all hear all kinds of wonderful new insults and painfully true stereotypes non-stop.

Regardless if we are a superpower or not, this does not change the rules for stereotyping.

Red Dead Redemption- One drunk Irish character back in the Western times where it was probably common to see a drunk Irishman. Then again, I hadn't been alive back then, nor have I researched. So I wouldn't know for a fact, but if you feel compelled to go look it up, be my guest.

A different, but none more special than the Irish, stereotype-

Saints Row, GTA, Movies, TV shows, etc....-Mexicans are always classified to be gangsters, involved in a drug cartel.

They are no more special than the other.
And Mexico is not a superpower, if that leveled the hight of the so called "pole" you speak of.

The point being is that while stereotypes exist (I'm a defender of sociology) I don't think you can try and say "well people stereotype Americans to" the same way. It's differant, and honestly it seems that most of that "fat and lazy" stuff comes from other Americans to be honest.

First off, mostly from Americans?
Their is no majority from where the criticism comes from.
It comes from all around the world.

Secondly, I don't see how any two stereotypes are different. Whether it be Racial, Social class, Social grouping(Goth, punk, hick, etc..), Country-inclined, or State/Province-Inclined.

A stereotype is a stereotype. There are no levels of this issue of which it becomes incomparable.

 

[IWCAS]

Irish people drink? No way! (Honestly let's grow up. If you are offended because a single person in a video game was a drunk Irishman you have a problem.)

 

[Therumancer]

Snip

Good points there. Being fat use to be a sign of your wealth and sucess, and its only now that being fat is frowned up due to the current image of "The perfect person" being slim, and now medcine has outlined all the health risks it brings.
I cant see America being at the top much longer. Politically and culturally it seems to be tearing itself apart, and countries like China are just getting started, though that regime may not last much longer.

Well, China is pretty much a knock off economy and as such I don't think it could exist without someone to steal patents and such from.

Speaking for myself, if I had to make a prediction, I think we're going to see an East Vs. West war largely fought over economics and living space. I think it's inevitable, businessmen will talk about how it's not possible, but they always say that before things really get moving. Right now the armies that are going to be used are already being built. People frequently talk about how China isn't a threat because they can't move their armies overseas and such, and forget that they are building a navy. What's more your already seeing countermeasures for satellites and ICBM guidance systems being developed. China hasn't been shy about deploying them (I've posted links like this before).

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/06/china_satellite_laser/

Do a search for China, Satellite, laser and you'll be surprised how much you find on this stuff.

*IF* the US falls in the near future, it's going to be a result of that war.

If the US does not fall in war, chances are it will succeed largely in unifying the world, mostly through ideas, but with some campaigns of conquest as well. Mostly it will be people coming together and dissolving borders though, with a single global goverment being created. While the principles would be similar to the US, the US would cease to exist.

Simply put if the US falls in warfare, you can pretty much guarantee our survivors are going to have a lot of colorful things said about them for generations to come by the conquering culture.

A generation or three into a world unity, it's going to be obvious that that despite being the originators, simple numbers are going to mean that the majority of elected leaders won't be from the area of the US.... and since nothing will be a utopia (even if better than now) there will still be some conflict. I expect you'll hear some interesting things said about Americans once this becomes knowm, especially seeing as there will probably be some Americans with odd feelings of entitlement that defeat the entire purpose of setting up a global goverment.

Right now I think you have a lot of people who think, or hope the US will fall for their own reasons. For example since the Cold War ended, Europe has wanted a return of global/western power to Europe in terms of economics and such. This is what the EU is about, some are not even shy in saying that they hope the Euro will totally supplant the dollar, and most global finance will go through the European Common Market rather than Wall Street... trivializing the US which is primarly a market/service based economy rather than an industrial power. Then of course we all know about China.

The thing is though that when it comes to China there will doubtlessly be a war, I think a number of people on both sides realize it, even if the general populance hasn't accepted it yet (that's the way it generally is). With the EU, I don't think it has the right stuff to replace the US as a global power, looking at how badly Russia kicked it's can by turning off the gas... well. Europe is simply too dependant on others to truely become a global super power today.

This (and my last message) are getting well off subject. This is simply my opinion.

 

[pwnzerstick]

If fox "news" goes and says video games are corrupting our children, then a developer should sue them for stereotyping the industry on national TV

 

[Joabbuac]

I thought Irish was really funny...so what if hes a stereotype? Theres posh english, a german who blaimes you for crap you never did and some crazy mexicans...so what? Its all fun

 

[RowdyRodimus]

I live in Arkansas, so I guess everytime something comes out that has a character from here being portrayed as an inbred, moonshine drinking, barefoot, banjo playing, overall wearing redneck (did I miss any?) I am going to the media and forcing an apology and for them to take it out of whatever it was in.

People need to get over themselves. Stereotypes don't fit 100% of a given group but they are usually always based on something factual.

 

[Bocaj2000]

to the OP, it's not the stereotype that disgusts me, it's more of the fact that Rockstar did it for the sole purpose of controversy. This is how they advertise, and it's just getting desperate and sad.

In their next game, I bet they'll have a banker named Shylock.

(Yes, the game is rated M, but the makers of it should be just as mature as the audience. I thought Irish jokes ended in middle school.)

EDIT:

snip*

Stereotypes don't fit 100% of a given group but they are usually always based on something factual.

Are you really that dense? (btw You just contradicted yourself.)

 

[Doug]

Ugh... Fuck off - if they can use English, American, Cuban, Black, White, Hispanic, and Asian stereotypes, its fair enough I say.

 

[johnman]

Snip

Your opinion is valid and interesting. The problem with predicting future events based on curent condition is that there are so many variables, from rogue states/organizsations to famine and disease. For sake of example say Brid flu was more than hype, and it swept across Asia killing hundreds of millions. Russia has not been getting much coverage latley but they are still worth watching as well.
As for the EU, well I dont think It can be done in its current format. Europe is anything but united, and the whole concept of it is flawed. It is not a democratic system, and nations will always look out for their own interests

 

[PoliceBox63]

Dam, so close without any news worthy controversy.

BTW how popular is Family Guy in Ireland?

Quite popular.

 

[Jaebird]

I personally don't advocate the use of stereotypes, considering I hate how Hollywood portrays people from Louisiana as being super-Cajun coons who live on the boondocks. But really, it has to originate from somewhere, and the only person you need to blame is the jackass who started it.

So, screw you, ancestors of every known stereotype. I hope you're proud of the damage you caused.

Or maybe people need to grow up. Get thier head out of thier ass and find for themselves an identity that runs a little deeper than where thier parents are from. Its a fuckin movie/game/wtf ever If your so racist, that you take a dumb character in anything as a personal attack because theyre the same ethnicity as you then you need to work on that. I know there is media out there that is blatently if not intentionally offensive/disrespectful. But even that wouldn't be a problem if REAL people were not so goddamn stupid.

Dave Chappel can go on TV and portray a character that's a raging stereotype, like the husbands in his version of wife swap. The black guy was vulgar, always had a cigarette hanging out his mouth and loved martin lawrence. The white guy, a prude with a nerdy voice and pretty much a wierdo sniffing bras.

Its a sketch, its supposed to be funny, Its using rediculously exagerated characters. Granted there are some people who match these stereo types but here is my point.

If your one of those people that watches stuff like this and laughs at its rediculousness I'm right there with you.

If you one of those people that watches stuff like this and goes WOOOH you know he right, black people are just like that. Your a fuckin moron, leave your house occasionally learn some reality, no The Real World, does not count.

Equally if your one of those people that watches this stuff, and says HOW DARE THEY MAKE FUN OF Black/White/Asian/Hispanic/Irish/Welsh/Martian.... also get bent. Of course I realize the first problem children I mentioned give the second ones some degree of legitimate concern for this media but you need to understand its the idiot that takes it as an accurate picture of a particular ethnic group thats the real problem.

Honestly, grown people do this...

I don't know if you know this, but my comment was one part personal opinion, and another part sarcasm. I'm not saying I disagree with you, since you bring up some interesting points, despite lacking correct punctuation (sorry, but I strained my eyes reading it).

We live in a time where no matter how much you can go on about people needing to grow up and not get so bent out of shape over such petty things, you may as well being arguing with a brick wall for the few who do find the humiliation and demeaning of others to be entertainment. As a society, I don't think we matured as well as we might think. After all, reducing someone to homosexual and racial epithets is common place over the internet, where you can't look anyone in the face to insult them.

Going back to my original comment, I mention how I hated the way Hollywood portrayed anyone from the southeastern part the United States. Does that affect my opinion on Hollywood in general? No, because there are competent people in the film/television industry. And the odd part is I've seen older movies that portray people from the south as stereotypes, but they're not as offensive as they are now (i.e., The Skeleton Key (my personal opinion)). Only shows like True Blood do it right, albeit with a few hiccups.

Now, in terms of these stereotypes existing: yes. They do exist, and you cannot deny it. I've had this same conversation with black coworkers before, and they acknowledge that there are some really terrible people who just happen to be black. I've been out on the boondocks once, while looking for a new car, and I've seen a few backwoods people. I can't change anything about it, because I don't have that kind of power. The ability to make a change like this relies on the people as a whole, but there are too many other problems in the world that this isn't high priority.

Back to the subject, I'm sure if they could, Rockstar would fix this to accommodate the feelings of their Irish consumers. I don't know how important this character is to the overall plot of the game, having not played it yet, but I believe it's up to the consumer, Irish or not, to decide whether they should feel offended or not.

I'm going to pass out now, because I hate having to type so much >_>

 

[DoctorWhat]

I'm sorry... This is the HERALD. It's a tabloid. It's bound to have twattish stories. I'm Irish myself, and I LAUGH at the stereotype. It's funny as hell! Although real drunks (in Dublin) are more likely to stab you or scream at you than anything else.

 

[Glass_House]

Pfft, the Irish don't get drunk. Alcohol gets Irish.

*Is part Irish just fyi* Don't really care at all either.

 

[Therumancer]

to the OP, it's not the stereotype that disgusts me, it's more of the fact that Rockstar did it for the sole purpose of controversy. This is how they advertise, and it's just getting desperate and sad.

In their next game, I bet they'll have a banker named Shylock.

(Yes, the game is rated M, but the makers of it should be just as mature as the audience. I thought Irish jokes ended in middle school.)

EDIT:

snip*

Stereotypes don't fit 100% of a given group but they are usually always based on something factual.

Are you really that dense? (btw You just contradicted yourself.)

Actually, he didn't. He's right.

Stereotypes are part of what sociology is all about. The idea is that you can take a group of people, a demographic and say "these things are generally true about them". You check it off point by point and you'll wind up with more successes than failures when dealing with someone in that group. People aren't cookie cutters, but stereotypes are perfectly valid as far as they go. It should also be noted that there are no shortage of them, and you even have smaller sub-stereotypes. You also have situations where by intentionally bucking a stereotype people simply enter another stereotype in most cases.


To put things into perspective, let's say your developing a product that you want to sell to young black men between 18 and 24 years old. You hire an advertising company whose people are basically sociologists... who know a lot about stereotypes... to develop an Ad campaign. To take something simple, like "young black men like rap and hip hop" is a stereotype, oh sure there are some out there who doubtlessly loathe it, but the majority of them do. Thus, using that type of music is a way to appeal to their demographic. Of course at the same time, if it feels like your patronizing, and simply going through the motions, it tends to actually give a negative reaction. This means you either need to decide whether you want to go over the top, and try and sell the product 'ironically' (it's so stereotypical and over the top the ads have become cool), or straightforward. This kind of thing can influance whether you go with a generic approach featuring unknowns, or hire a face... a well known Rapper or Hip-Hop front man, to be the spokesman for your product.

The above is a very simple explanation, not meant to be a do all and end all of stereotyping. It's simply a point about how things like that work. It's usually far more complicated, and that's why big time advertising firms with their eyes on the latest twists in the stereotypes and what trends are out there can demand big bucks for their services.

A lot of people like to think that being a "stereotype" means someone has to be a cookie cutter diplicate, it doesn't, it just means that they have to conform on more points than they don't. You can't for example say your not a stereotype because you do one, two, or even half a dozen things differant from the one you fit into, if you match it on far more points.

 

[Nova5]

Christ, when will people learn to take a freakin' joke?

To quote a game critic on this very site: "Political-correctness-charged censorship only serves to engender resentment and distance between social groups."

*edited to remove potential spoilers*

 

[eggy32]

Having lived in Ireland for 15 years I can safely say nobody cares and the Herald is just trying to get publicity by hating on the popular thing. Everyone I know laughs at stuff like this, even those family guy episodes where they go to Ireland.

 

[Nova5]

Having lived in Ireland for 15 years I can safely say nobody cares and the Herald is just trying to get publicity by hating on the popular thing. Everyone I know laughs at stuff like this, even those family guy episodes where they go to Ireland.

Good to hear. Sad to say, when you hear about some American(s) getting their panties in a twist, it usually seems to be true.