Report: Mass Effect Put on Indefinite Hold

[DemomanHusband]

To be fair, saying you were surprised by how good a game like ME:A was is like saying you were surprised by how dry the ocean is, it displays a blatant lack of objective understanding of your own experiences.

Wait. Are you reading our minds across the internet? When some of us say "Yea, it wasn't bad" you're saying we're... wrong somehow? Like my 120 hours was me secretly not liking the game?
While I stand by that some opinions can be outright wrong, this one feels a bit dumb to me.
"I like this game"
"No, you're wrong because you don't understand yourself."
"....?????"

I'm not saying you secretly didn't like the game. I'm saying that anyone going through a game as thoroughly broken as Mass Effect Andromeda for an extended period of time and saying that in the end the game was good in any respect is wrong. I played Dragon Age Inquisition, I know the song and dance here. You overlook the game's faults, the oily skin textures, the weirdly shifting quality in voice acting, the writing that goes from "Discourse on Orlais" to "Isn't the word trousers charming when it's coming out of a really weird looking elf's badly lip-synced mouth?" Mass Effect Andromeda is simply a Sci-Fi Inquisition (I guess both literally and thematically in some ways) and the fact that anyone here has the gall to say a game like this can be good... I won't say it sickens me, but it makes me question where people's standards have gone.

The only thing remotely fun in Inquisition was the multiplayer, in a mindless way. Never mind the ruination of Qunari lore, never mind #RideTheBull, never mind the fact that your only interesting companion was basically the Nu-Star Trek Spock as an elf with some Cumberbatch genes mixed in for good measure; I liked the multiplayer. This does not mean it was surprisingly good. Quite the opposite, the very fact that this one bit of the game was even anywhere near tolerable made the collective experience even more draining.

To the other fellow claiming I used a false equivalence, tell me that Mass Effect Andromeda is not absolutely devoid of quality. Tell me its destitute animation budget and by the numbers gameplay are not factually indicative of a poorly managed development cycle. Tell me that the writing team consistently shitting on their own universe for the sake of pandering to an audience who either doesn't exist or only cares about finding new things to complain about isn't a clear indicator of a bad game's bad writing. Not only that, even their non-pandering bits are just awful. "Let's get naked and size each other up to get a feel for our species so the protagonist can walk in on us! Oh, and let's be all snarky, too." Oh wait, that's still pandering.

So, once more. I'm not saying that you're wrong about liking the game, you can do that all you like. I'm saying you are wrong for liking it. There's liking something for how bad it is, and there's this. Call me an ass, call me whatever, frankly I'm more than a bit sad that we've got people defending ME:A of all things here. I feel genuinely bad for anyone who wasted their time with it.

Yeesh, apologies for the rant, but damn.

 

[Cether]

I like how everyone in this thread is pretending that ME:A didn't get average to good reviews. Listening to the shit storm surrounding the game you'd think ME:A was garbage on the level of some of the worst games released, yet when I played it the game was actually pretty decent. It had several great quests, the worlds were surprisingly enjoyable to traverse. The main quests were all good. Combat is fun and you can build your characters multiple ways and have a very different but effective playstyle even on Insanity.

Yes it had problems, no it's not one of the greatest games released this year, but it wasn't *bad*. It was good. Just good.

That's not enough for Bioware though, every game they release has to be the greatest game ever released or fans will throw the biggest ***** fest this world has ever seen.

 

[Dalsyne]

It's too bad. It was a game with great potential and it was clear a lot of people worked hard on it if you look at its systems and the sheer amount of content on display.

A lot of other people didn't, which is the problem. But there was nothing wrong per se with it as a game, and this is a title that could've benefited from some lessons learned.

I don't think it was killed off by its fanbase as some people are saying... well, every game lives or dies by its fanbase, but you know what I mean. It was an objectively janky game that didn't live up to modern storytelling standards, all while storytelling was supposed to be its biggest strength.

 

[TT Kairen]

So...although unanswered questions from ME:A are going to remain unanswered? Like...basically the entire game? Smooth, BioWare. I know Andromeda wasn't the greatest game, but I'd still like to know what happens. I was kind of hoping you guys would learn from the mistakes and strive to make it better--like you've been saying you were going to do--but apparently tucking your tails and running is the better choice.
Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Blame the "fans", savaging a game as if it were the apocalypse heralded by Satan himself when it was mediocre at worst, and perhaps could have used another month or two in the oven to iron out some kinks.

 

[AD-Stu]

Interesting timing on this BTW - this story comes out, and pretty much same day they put out the 1.06 patch for the game...

 

[Joccaren]

So...although unanswered questions from ME:A are going to remain unanswered? Like...basically the entire game? Smooth, BioWare. I know Andromeda wasn't the greatest game, but I'd still like to know what happens. I was kind of hoping you guys would learn from the mistakes and strive to make it better--like you've been saying you were going to do--but apparently tucking your tails and running is the better choice.
Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Blame the "fans", savaging a game as if it were the apocalypse heralded by Satan himself when it was mediocre at worst, and perhaps could have used another month or two in the oven to iron out some kinks.

Blame the company for releasing it those one or two months early and selling a lot of people an unfinished game, thus garnering much deserved criticism.

Also, fan criticism isn't enough to kill a franchise. Look at ME3. Its poor sales. Why poor sales? Because they fucked up. More than it not selling well, they tried to cram too much BS in and over extended the budget to such a huge extent that the game quite simply could not be successful.

From EAs perspective, it is rather obvious that the team can't create a game on budget. The game requires a lot of work to fix, and took a ton of work to create. It downright cannot sell well enough to earn back that money. The team is unlikely to downsize the game. EA also has a hand in this, and themselves don't want to downsize the game, and thus its not going to be profitable.


Blame people who have more refined tastes all you want, but they're not the reason MEA fucked up. I don't even think its a terrible game, its just poorly built and overall mediocre at best. Its better than 3, but that's not saying much. Its on EA and Bioware for spending such a ridiculously huge budget and not making it a high quality product. Consumers are not required to purchase a product because you enjoyed it. Its not their fault that the game wasn't good enough to get the sort of sales Bioware and EA wanted. Its EA and Bioware's fault.

 

[Quazimofo]

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He wasn't providing an example of how the conversation normally goes, he was summarizing the conversation as it just happened. You're putting words in his mouth.

snicker-snack

So, once more. I'm not saying that you're wrong about liking the game, you can do that all you like. I'm saying you are wrong for liking it. There's liking something for how bad it is, and there's this. Call me an ass, call me whatever, frankly I'm more than a bit sad that we've got people defending ME:A of all things here. I feel genuinely bad for anyone who wasted their time with it.

Yeesh, apologies for the rant, but damn.

You're not an asshole, or even a mean person. You're just mistakenly equating your personal tastes with fact. Dragon Age Inquisition for example: I liked a few of the companions, and I thought Solas was the least interesting by a significant margin. Blackwall's twist added an interesting dimension to his character, and Iron Bull's conflict between the life he has as effectively a deep cover agent and his obligations to the Qunari I found engaging (even though the personal quest was so... lazy).

I also found the combat horribly boring, the quest design, at best, mediocre outside of the setpiece quests (and even those were of mixed quality), the war table was a neat idea with timers that were way too goddamn long, and the game generally had too much tedium to wade through between the interesting moments.

My point? I think inquisition is a bad game, but every complaint I have about it is subjective, and people who believe that the 'good' parts of the game outweigh the 'bad', aren't any more or less correct by saying it's a good game. I may have serious about their standards, but that doesn't make me objectively right in my judgement of that game.

I've watched videos of Mass Effect Andromeda, including quest playthroughs (I'm a uni student, so I had neither the time nor the money to play it when it came out). It may be the antithesis to anything and everything you expected from a Mass Effect game and loved from that franchise, but that doesn't make it objectively bad. It's an artwork at the end of the day. You can argue technical skill, and the quality of any individual aspect, but the final verdict of 'bad' or 'good' is not an objective fact, because 'Good' and 'Bad' are not objective terms

Other examples to illustrate the point: People still defend Justin Beiber's work. People spent money to buy a copy of 'Gangnam Style', and it wasn't just for the lulz. People unironically enjoy Adam Sandler's recent films. People think Mass Effect 3 had a good conclusion to the series.

I'm not saying Andromeda was good, I just disagree with your argument that someone can be objectively wrong about enjoying something.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I think that if EA were to hire one of millions of original trilogy fans they'd be able to come up with a better game than Andromeda. It's not that difficult. Now they're back at making the same mistakes that giant publishers make over and over again. The kind of mistakes that they end up having to apologize for and promise never to make again, only to continue making them regardless. The apology effect of major companies like EA lasts for one game and then they're instantly back at being money grabbing whores with no vision. But can we truly blame them when the gamers are the ones who keep falling for it?

The ultimate message is to STOP PREORDERING GAMES!

 

[Quellist]

When will you learn EA? This is what happens when you takeover an award-winning studio and decide that you'll make its games more Marketable...

 

[Jamcie Kerbizz]

Assuming this wasn't sarcastic...I don't understand this mentality. Why are we brought up to learn from our mistakes and improve but once a big project fails the answer is to fire everyone?

With that view it's amazing Zelda and Castlevania franchises survived beyond the second installments.

The Mass Effect universe has a lot to offer. I don't think one merely 'decent' installment should be enough to kill the franchise.

It's the real life mentality. You are brought up like that the same way you have training wheels on your bike at first. To not disencourage or damage frail mind/body. Reality works different though, it's a miracle if you mess up but get second chance.

Just watch EA drag screaming Bioware behind the shed to put a merciful bullet through its empty ghoulish husk. Life lesson learned.

 

[pookie101]

i will admit i was so disappointed with andromeda after playing it for a few hours.. it just didnt feel like mass effect to me.

i went back to it after they fixed the googly eyes and played it through and it took me a good 25-30 hours before it grew on me, it still doesnt feel completely mass effect and might of been better off being a new IP but i have to say by the end i was enjoying myself and my ryder.

yay the new patch means sam wont be telling me every 30 seconds i have new mail when on the ship, oh and they upped weapon damage to.. interesting.

that said its sad for us who did grow to like the story, i would of liked to of seen where the series went and have some of the questions answered like who are the remnant and what happened to them, how does the fight go against the full kett empire

 

[wulf3n]

"No, you don't get it. Everything I just listed makes this game quantifiably mediocre or worse."

The problem I've found is that the vast majority of people don't truly understand the difference between objective and subjective arguments, or at the very least are not good adequately expressing the argument as such.

 

[Jamcie Kerbizz]

that said its sad for us who did grow to like the story, i would of liked to of seen where the series went and have some of the questions answered like who are the remnant and what happened to them, how does the fight go against the full kett empire

Well there are millions of people enjoying Harlequin books and billions enjoing porn and following different 'stories'. Though objectively writting in both is garbage level, so saying you like them because how great quality of writting it has, well its 'simplifying' at best.
Better suited and honest way would be to say, that all 3 of these, scratch that itch many people need to have scratched in a pleasing way. Mind you, I'm not suggesting that all of 3 do the same 'trick', just none of them has good storytelling even thoug 'fans' will argue otherwise till they're all out of breath.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

I think the only AAA games I've bought recently are Dark Souls 3 and Horizon. I've been playing Deathstate, Flinthook, Cosmic Star Heroine, Salt & Sanctuary, and Crypt of the Necrodancer mostly these days. I've never played a Mass Effect game, but I have played about 3 hours of Dragon Age 1, hated it. Bioware and Ubisoft are pretty much non entities to me these days.

 

[Jamcie Kerbizz]

I think the only AAA games I've bought recently are Dark Souls 3 and Horizon. I've been playing Deathstate, Flinthook, Cosmic Star Heroine, Salt & Sanctuary, and Crypt of the Necrodancer mostly these days. I've never played a Mass Effect game, but I have played about 3 hours of Dragon Age 1, hated it. Bioware and Ubisoft are pretty much non entities to me these days.

Well I agree with that. DA was critically acclaimed and prised as 2nd coming of Christ for 'classic' rpgs but honestly: small party, medicore boxed quests and characters with they tacky 'story' quests, hub-like pieces built world, one of most innovative characters gated behind pay wall, in game store (in RPG, story driven game!), way too zoomed in view, poor control of characters, simplified character controls and UI to enable consoles portability, dull character customizations, cringy 'cut-scenes'. Story as a whole was great, game was nice to have after so many years but all of these are cracks that show up and were overlooked.
IMO that was the start of Bioware's demise. DA2 was just a point at which sickness was obvious.

 

[Saelune]

RIP Bioware's corpse. 2007-2017/8. (RIP Real Bioware 1995-2007)

Too early to jump to this conclusion? Nah, I dont think so.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

What school did you go to?! When I got the answer wrong on a test, I was marked wrong. When I failed a class, I failed. No one said "Oh, well at least you tried your best, and as we all know, in Calculus, its the thought that counts..."

In the real world when you fail a project, you're fired. You don't still go on to the next grade or get a chance to repeat the class. You failed, you're fired.

Art is now a science, is it? A true or false state? Heaven forbid art is subjective and things created can be more than an alarmingly simplistic, uncultured binary... Succeed, fail. Good, bad. Right, wrong.

Assuming this wasn't sarcastic...I don't understand this mentality. Why are we brought up to learn from our mistakes and improve but once a big project fails the answer is to fire everyone?

With that view it's amazing Zelda and Castlevania franchises survived beyond the second installments.

The Mass Effect universe has a lot to offer. I don't think one merely 'decent' installment should be enough to kill the franchise.

Agreed. Sadly there's a reaction against mature nuance these days.

If something simplistically true/false could be said about ME:A, it's that it needed more time to iron out bugs and glitches - which is why I'm still waiting for one more update before I buy it. Previous BioWare games have had technical issues, but ME:A - by almost every account - had it worse.

However, there's nothing wrong with Mass Effect going dark for a little while, either. Personally, I never felt the series needed to continue at all, and I'm someone who feels they went out on a high (ME2 will probably always be my favourite of the trio for its focus on character narrative and the world they'd built, but I think ME3's by a colossal margin the vastly superior game and overall accomplishment - easily one of the best triple-A's of last gen in that sense).

I always cared more about Dragon Age anyway, so I at least hope that IP doesn't go dark as well. DA:I was a mixed bag, to put it mildly (not 'good/a success', not 'bad/a failure', but many things), but I still want to see the story develop, and I still loved its ensemble.

The reaction against BioWare really isn't just about games at all, though, it's much more than that, hence the venom so often aimed their way. ME:A was a perfect storm for certain groups.

Interesting timing on this BTW - this story comes out, and pretty much same day they put out the 1.06 patch for the game...

Wait, really? Is it out now? Huh, apparently so. Looks like I'll be finding out what I make of ME:A rather soon.

 

[The Lunatic]

Well, if you take 5 years, and AAA budget and using that, you deliver Mass Effect Andromeda, you kinda deserve to get "Downsized".

 

[Dragonlayer]

Disappointing to hear, but I can't blame them for wanting to get their act together - or at least giving that impression - after the misstep of Andromeda. Though I have to wonder if anything short of kidnapping CD Projekt to develop a new ME was ever going to appease nutbars like me, who adored every second of the original trilogy, and nutbars like the people who shrieked and raved that ME3's original ending was so bad it killed the company and warranted a lawsuit for false advertising.

 

[Vigormortis]

I said it was coming...

They didn't believe me...

I foresaw this...

Spoiler: It begins...

The ultimate message is to STOP PREORDERING GAMES!

Heh, that's a good one.

It's 2017. Sensible thinking is passe.

The problem I've found is that the vast majority of people don't truly understand the difference between objective and subjective arguments

Are you saying 'alternative facts' aren't actually a real thing?!

MY WORLD VIEW!! IT IS SHATTERED!!!!!