Russia Tells U.S. to Use A Trampoline to Send Its Astronauts to the ISS

[shirkbot]

-snip-

Thank you very much. Now I know where to take shelter from the flames.

 

[ShAmMz0r]

If by "annexing" you mean "Crimea wanted to join Russia instead of the clusterfuck that is the current Ukraine and people of Crimea voted for that fair and square on a referendum", then yeah, that was annexing.

Allowing a region to join a different country just because 80% of its citizens want to? Preposterous! A true democratic process obviously requires approval of the USA government.

To be fair the results are a bit suspect, but I think most crimeans would have indeed liked to join Russia if just to avoid the clusterfuck. Regular people are boned ether way. It's basically a choice between Oligarchs. Be they Russian or Ukrainian ones, it does not make that much of a difference in the end.

It's a pity international cooperation in space exploration is worth so little, but it's nothing new. The astronauts are probably facepalming pretty hard about all this. A bit alarming how space exploration of humanity as a whole may be fucked up by geopolitical bickering. Probably about time to decouple it a bit more from governments.

 

[Namehere]

I'm ashamed my fellow Escapists. ASHAMED I SAY! Where then is that ? are those ? great monoliths? None of you have the courage to ask, but I shall. If we'd all had more advanced space programs would they have fallen apart four years ago as a world turned into a star? We have a new moon in the system but no new star... Can we, as a species, survive? Tell us Arthur C. Clark since HALL can not!

 

[Iron Criterion]

As opposed to Russian backed ones like Syria.

Oh Syria, thanks for reminding me of another time Russia was actually willing to do the unthinkable and oppose the US.

You want us to live under Putin? Nah, thank you very much. If it happens, you can expect mass murders of anti-Yanukovich protesters. Or something like that.

Doubtful. Besides its not like the rebel government is adverse to bloodshed.

It's easy for you to take this moralistic stance when you're not living in the country in question.

 

[Vareoth]

Is it bad that I'm looking forward to these sanctions as they lower the value of foreign currencies in comparison to the euro allowing me to buy more foreign products for the same money?

Not that there will ever be strong sanctions against Russia. The world's economy is far to fragile and money always speaks louder. I wonder why Russia even wanted to annex a part of that (currently) horrid mess that some might refer to as a country. I mean, it does have some resources and it does look very pretty but is that worth all the shit Russia is facing now?

Nevertheless, Russian officials do have a sense of humor.

 

[Zontar]

The uprising wasn't violent, at least not nearly as much as the Russian media tries to make it look. The most violent part of the uprising was the government crackdown.

You honestly don't think police were killed by protesters? You really think responding to violence with violence is some kind of evil "crackdown"? You really think the US has any right to complain about how people treat protesters?

Name the last time the US killed people in a crackdown, then compare it to when it happened in Ukraine. Yes a few police where killed, but compared to what? About 2-3 hundred protesters depending on the source, and there has yet to be a report of the protesters killing first. (it may have happened, but no source has yet stepped forward who was actually there at the time).

After which, even though he had a better tactical position then the protesters, he ran away to Russia?

Possibly because he *shockhorror* didn't want to be strung up and used for target practice.

Well, he did provoke such an action, but he could have turned himself in to the ICC to defend himself in a neutral court of law. Yes you Americans don't recognize it, but it's about as impartial as any court will get. But no, he made himself look like a guilty man by running to his masters in Moscow.

The most violent part of this whole crisis has been the illegal Russian invasion of Crimea with intent to annex

Right. Their evil invasion to protect ethnic Russians from the violent protesters who in all likelihood would not have been terrible polite to those they would consider the blood of the enemy. And you know the whole thing where Crimea voted to be part of Russia and the people who claim that was a scam have a strangely hard time coming up with evidence other than "EVUL RUSSIANS!!"
EDIT: I also can't find anything indicating more than 10 Kiev-loyal Ukrainians dead, compared to 15 dissenters killed by the Kiev government.

As East Ukraine stands testament too, that would not have happened. (probably because if there was a risk of it actually happen a Russian invasion would have been inevitable). What Russia did was a unilateral crime, and under section one of the UN charter an act of war against all sovereign nations (war with the intent of annexation). And for the love of god don't you dare pretend the referendum (which had "join Russia" and "join Russia" and the options and was held at gunpoint) which has more holes then Swiss chess was legitimate. There's no way support for joining Russia went from 40% of ethnic Russians and next to no Ukrainians and Tatars supporting it going to almost all Russians, Ukrainians and Tatars supporting it in the span of 2 months, especially given that 40% number was the historic high over a year ago and steadily dropped under the old president. Mathematics don't lie, and the impossible remains the impossible.

After all, it's not like Ukraine has much oil (that isn't sarcasm, Ukraine seriously has next to no oil. Plus why would the US put so much effort into getting it when pretty much all oil the US uses comes from domestic sources or imports from North and South America? If there was oil in Ukraine in amounts worth mentioning, it wouldn't end up in American cars, that's for sure).

Mentioning oil was a stab at our pointless entanglement in the middle east. US interest in the Ukraine has more to do with the west preferring to have Russia surrounded by nations friendly to western interests.

So because the US invaded one country over a decade ago, that suddenly makes all acts illegitimate? Well hell, Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 without provocation, that logic harms their case more the us in the West.

madman of a dictator

You say that, yet he makes my skin crawl far less than any western leader. Not to mention the rare presence of an actual spine which is almost unheard of in modern politics.

Praising a dictator now? Wow. Given his background, you're saying instead of a democratically elected leader, nations like the US should be lead by dictators who are former CIA members? Not sure if that logic is more disgusting or appalling. The man has almost singlehandedly restarted the Cold War and turned Russia into the biggest threat to world peace. Sure the US may invade a country on occasion (though over the past 25 years less so then Russia has) but when was the last time the US invaded a nation to steal their land? The answer is before it became illegal to do so under international law which all members of the UN have signed. Russia gets closer to becoming a rouge state by the day, and if there's anything that's more of a problem for everyone everywhere then a rogue state, it's one armed with nuclear weapons (though there are probably too many checks and balances in place for that to happen without him getting what's coming too him).

are you a furry by any chance?

No. I enjoy a few comics with the art style but I don't identify with or seek out that subculture. I have that avatar because I enjoy the comic its from and can relate to the protagonist in a lot of ways that don't involve having fluffy ears.

Because if you are, that makes your support of Russia in this all the more jarring.

Why? Does Russia have some kinda of anti furry law? Because that would be fucking hilarious.

Well yes, it does. Glad too see you aren't an Uncle Tom, just someone siding with the enemy.

 

[Zontar]

Is it bad that I'm looking forward to these sanctions as they lower the value of foreign currencies in comparison to the euro allowing me to buy more foreign products for the same money?

Not that there will ever be strong sanctions against Russia. The world's economy is far to fragile and money always speaks louder. I wonder why Russia even wanted to annex a part of that (currently) horrid mess that some might refer to as a country. I mean, it does have some resources and it does look very pretty but is that worth all the shit Russia is facing now?

Nevertheless, Russian officials do have a sense of humor.

Seems to have been an act of opportunity then anything thought out. Crimea is going to become another net drain on the Russian economy like occupied Georgia and Moldova have been, so it's probably just for propaganda value. Dictators usually keep in within their own boarders though.

 

[Zontar]

Sidenote: are you a furry by any chance (just asking because of your profile pic)? Because if you are, that makes your support of Russia in this all the more jarring.

Furry/Scaly here, sup, I am curious as to why you find it jarring. Is it because of something happening in Russia that I did not hear about?

OT: I will not get into the flamewar over the Ukrainian/Russian crisis or what have you and simply state that our countries need to get our collective heads out of our asses. I am of the firm belief that our future lies in the stars and will be mildly disappointed if we send ourselves into extinction before that happens.

That anti-gay law the Russians passed includes Furriers in it on the list of banned for immorality. Basically a furry supporting Russian is like a visible minority supporting the CSA.

 

[Vareoth]

Seems to have been an act of opportunity then anything thought out. Crimea is going to become another net drain on the Russian economy like occupied Georgia and Moldova have been, so it's probably just for propaganda value. Dictators usually keep in within their own boarders though.

A very good point. The occupation and annexation of Crimea was and still is very popular with Russian nationals. Putin does know very well how to sway public opinion in his favour. This can also be seen by the way he currently indulges the Russian Orthodox Church.

 

[O maestre]

As opposed to Russian backed ones like Syria.

Oh Syria, thanks for reminding me of another time Russia was actually willing to do the unthinkable and oppose the US.

Yes, because chemical weapons makes everything better.

I wouldn't go there... the Russian's did good in solving a tense situation without deploying external military, but through diplomacy. Instead of the empty "redline"threats. As far as we have been told close to 90% of the chemical weapons have been removed.

As for puppet governments, again the west and specifically America has had a fair share of friendly and economic relations with ruthless dictators throughout history, amongst other shady activities.

I know the media is ramping this up to be a new cold war but the I don't believe either side is acting out of any sense of altruism, or has the moral upperhand. Everything is based on self serving acts even amongst allies, specially since it is no longer about competing ideologies but competing markets. Ukraine has been divided a long time before this crisis, much of this could have been avoided if the eastern separatist movement was not struck down in 1994. Now no one really cares about ideology, it's about stability and getting back to 'normalcy'.

OT: It is a shame that this is going to halt research into one of the fields we have the very least knowledge. It is sadly also to be expected, we unfortunately do not live in a world where the pursuit of knowledge is a common goal for the entire species. This might seem like a petty action to us, but we have to understand that Russia is no longer a superpower, this is literally the only thing besides cutting off the gas that could even have a chance of hurting the west.

This may seem like a dumb question, but is it only the ESA and NASA that will be forced to invest in trampolines?

 

[Risingblade]

Well then I guess we'll just have to build our own shuttles...armed with guns and powered by freedom.

 

[RealRT]

If by "annexing" you mean "Crimea wanted to join Russia instead of the clusterfuck that is the current Ukraine and people of Crimea voted for that fair and square on a referendum", then yeah, that was annexing.

Allowing a region to join a different country just because 80% of its citizens want to? Preposterous! A true democratic process obviously requires approval of the USA government.

To be fair the results are a bit suspect, but I think most crimeans would have indeed liked to join Russia if just to avoid the clusterfuck. Regular people are boned ether way. It's basically a choice between Oligarchs. Be they Russian or Ukrainian ones, it does not make that much of a difference in the end.

It's a pity international cooperation in space exploration is worth so little, but it's nothing new. The astronauts are probably facepalming pretty hard about all this. A bit alarming how space exploration of humanity as a whole may be fucked up by geopolitical bickering. Probably about time to decouple it a bit more from governments.

I spoke to a dude from Crimea, he said that pretty much everybody he knew voted Russia. True story.

As for what the flying fuck does Russia want with Ukraine, the answer is very simple: there are a lot of ethnic Russians in Ukraine, especially east. And the perspective of Ukrainian nationalists (who are quite numerous) seizing power and commiting ethnic cleansings is not real happy. I mean, the former Ukrainian Prime Minister, Tymoshenko was recently caught talking about gunning the Russians in Ukraine (not the non-existant invaders but rather ethnically Russian citizens of Ukraine) with atomic weapons. Lemme reiterate: gunning down citizens of her own country based on their nationality. It's the 2008 conflict all over again.

 

[ShAmMz0r]

-snip-

The rational thing to do is to stuff the whole peninsula full of observers with proper credentials and do another referendum, this time with proper choices. Too bad no one with any political power really cares what crimeans want or what would be good for them, it's all just another geopolitical contest. Damn shame.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Leave the space industry alone! It's done nothing to you. The poor thing is being neglected by practically every country with the possible exception of Russia, AND it's our only hope for the future, and all it gets is cutbacks and...sanctions! Think of the shuttles.

 

[crazygameguy4ever]

Maybe the US wouldn't have proposed sanctions if Russia stopped trying to invade other counties and then fame innocence..

 

[Gorrath]

]NASA's budget being cut isn't going to help with that endeavor.

It lost another $50 million this year, with a total of $268 million in cuts to all planetary science funding from 2013 levels. The 2015 budget is looking to lose another $186 million.

Yes, granted, those cuts are not currently in space exploration. But they are bad enough that many prominent scientists have rallied against them. And as we continue to cut away, we're letting Russia hold us hostage to the tune of $60 million per person, and now they're threatening not to even let us do THAT.

The correct decision would have been to keep running the shuttle program in tandem with the creation of a new delivery system, and to then phase out the shuttle as the new ships rolled out. Funding another country's economy is not an ideal model, especially when that country is now behaving like it's back in the Cold War.

I am strongly against the NASA budget cuts, but the problem with the shuttles was not simply a monetary one. Launching of shuttles was delayed for long stretches (months-years) because of safety concerns. Continuing to run the shuttle program put the shuttles and the lives of their crew at risk. Russia is really the only other nation (that I know of) making semi-regular trips into space. While I agree that the 60 mil/passenger is an absurd price to pay, I still agree with that decision over continuing to use the shuttles. Hell, having Russia cut us off may be the best way to get our own government to rethink the NASA cuts. Essentially, I agree with you on every part except the continued use of the shuttles. What happened to Columbia was not an isolated incident.

 

[Sneezeguard]

The most violent part of this whole crisis has been the illegal Russian invasion of Crimea with intent to annex

Right. Their evil invasion to protect ethnic Russians from the violent protesters who in all likelihood would not have been terrible polite to those they would consider the blood of the enemy. And you know the whole thing where Crimea voted to be part of Russia and the people who claim that was a scam have a strangely hard time coming up with evidence other than "EVUL RUSSIANS!!"

So would be ok if Ukraine annexed Russian lands in-order to protect ethnic Ukrainians in Russia or if any other nation annexed part of Russia to protect an ethnic group?

Secondly there were no "violent protesters" in the Crimea nobody was under threat there.

My personal opinion on this whole thing, Russia has been stupid. It's isolated itself, scared/angered it's former allies and pushed them closer towards NATO and EU. It has damaged trade and business to a point where it's facing a recession and harmed it's future profits as most EU countries are now going to look alternate sources for oil and gas and become less dependent on russia oil and gas, and for what?

All for a little peninsula.

 

[Zontar]

Well, he did provoke such an action, but he could have turned himself in to the ICC to defend himself in a neutral court of law. Yes you Americans don't recognize it, but it's about as impartial as any court will get. But no, he made himself look like a guilty man by running to his masters in Moscow.

Riiiight. forgive me if I don't trust the ICC to not serve western interests.

Isn't the reason that the US doesn't recognize it the fact that it tends to be unbiased?

Snip

1. You seem to be under the impression that I don't think the UN is worthless. You are wrong.
And I certainly don't trust them to protect ethnic Russians if that fascist Tymoshenko decides to start purging them.
2. If the west really cared about Crimea they would be calling for the referendum to be conducted again, this time under heavier scrutiny, not just blatantly saying "nope we don't like it, doesn't count".

So you support an open fascist, yet you insult the man who's running in an open election in a few weeks a fascist as an insult? Ever herd the term "does not compute"?

And actually, there HAVE been calls for a free and open referendum, by both the west AND Ukraine, you just didn't notice because it didn't come from the US. But then again you seem to be under the illusion this is a two sided issue when only 7 countries even recognize Russia's claims to the land (Russia and 6 nations they've sent generous "aid" packages over the years. Notice Belarus, Russia's puppet which isn't under military occupation, does not recognize it or their claims in Georgia)

So because the US invaded one country over a decade ago, that suddenly makes all acts illegitimate?

Funny I seem to remember there still being a lot of US troops in various parts of the middle east where they shouldn't be, in spite of the unsurprisingly bullshit promises of our president.
EDIT: I also don't think the invasion of Georgia was entirely unjust, but that's another debate entirely.

Let's see, the US and NATO as a whole are leaving Afghanistan (a war which was perfectly legal and went threw the proper UN channels before it started), and.... nope, can't think of a place the US has forces other then embassies and military bases the local governments have leased out to them.

you're saying [...] nations like the US should be lead by dictators who are former CIA members?

As compared to the current system where we are lead by greedy, double dealing scumbags, chosen and controlled by special interest groups and corporations, who would gladly strip away freedoms one by one for the sake of the great god profit? Meh I would at least respect a former CIA agent as having something to him besides money, a winning smile, and the ability to manipulate stupid people.

You do realize that Putin is exactly what you just described you hated, only the difference being that 1) he's blatant about the fact he does it, and 2) he does it on a much larger scale then any other politician in the world (his personal assets are estimated at 40 billion USD, all of which was in one way or another stolen from the Russian tax payer). You can say you'd respect that hypothetical CIA dictator, but he sure as hell wouldn't be any better then what the US has now.

Well yes, it does. Glad too see you aren't an Uncle Tom, just someone siding with the enemy.

You with comments like that it blows my mind that you are Canadian, because you sound like a typical flag humping American. Possibly circa 1960.

And I can't believe you're supporting Russia. You wouldn't happen to be a member of the German American Bund would you? Or at least some other far-right leaning party. I mean say what you will about the GOP, even their more extreme members don't tend to be THAT far right.

 

[Saetha]

On topic... All these people arguing that Russia might be in the right, and I'm just like "I'm on the side that hasn't made being openly pro-LGBT illegal. Putin can go suck a dick."

But then HE'D be the LGBT one, and he'd have to arrest himself! The cycle would be complete, and the universe would collapse beneath the weight of Putin's hypocrisy, sending us all to spiral in the void!

Or he'd just get arrested and tried, but I think my version's more fun. More apocalypse, less boring-if-ironic legal procedure.

Also, I glanced at your avatar and went "Wait, what, I haven't commented in this thread yet, what" before realizing it was a different picture.

 

[Gorrath]

Well, he did provoke such an action, but he could have turned himself in to the ICC to defend himself in a neutral court of law. Yes you Americans don't recognize it, but it's about as impartial as any court will get. But no, he made himself look like a guilty man by running to his masters in Moscow.

Riiiight. forgive me if I don't trust the ICC to not serve western interests.

Snip

1. You seem to be under the impression that I don't think the UN is worthless. You are wrong.
2. If the west really cared about Crimea they would be calling for the referendum to be conducted again, this time under heavier scrutiny, not just blatantly saying "nope we don't like it, doesn't count".

So because the US invaded one country over a decade ago, that suddenly makes all acts illegitimate?

Funny I seem to remember there still being a lot of US troops in various parts of the middle east where they shouldn't be, in spite of the unsurprisingly bullshit promises of our president.

you're saying [...] nations like the US should be lead by dictators who are former CIA members?

As compared to the current system where we are lead by greedy, double dealing scumbags, chosen and controlled by special interest groups and corporations, who would gladly strip away freedoms one by one for the sake of the great god profit? Meh I would at least respect a former CIA agent as having something to him besides money, a winning smile, and the ability to manipulate stupid people.

Well yes, it does. Glad too see you aren't an Uncle Tom, just someone siding with the enemy.

You with comments like that it blows my mind that you are Canadian, because you sound like a typical flag humping American. Possibly circa 1960.

I've found your replies in this matter to be absolutely hilarious. The whole thing reads more like you're arguing about which of two sports teams is better than actually condemning anything for being immoral or unethical. Your narrative, so far as I can tell, is that Russia should do whatever it wants and you'll support it because fuck the U.S.A. Glossing over the out and out murder of 100's of protesters and the attempted annexation of sovereign territory all in the name of sticking it to good old 'Murica makes it appear as if you don't have a point to make other than "Yay, Russia. Booo America!" Hell, condemn the Iraq war all you like. Condemn Afghanistan too if it suits you. But to do so while backing Russia in all of this is totally inconsistent and completely juvenile.

Following that up with some drivel about how you could totally respect some ex CIA guy grabbing dictatorial power because you think democracy has failed only adds to my incredulity. Better we have a guy in the pockets of rich people who we can't get rid of than one we can eh? And to top it all of, you end with that gem of comparing the guy you're debating with to a negative stereotype. Do they hand out bonus points for that or something?