Russian Media Suggests Modern Warfare 2 Trained Terrorists

[elilupe]

All who knew this game would get blamed for the attack sooner or later say aye

 

[stompy]

Yeah I think we've already determined that Video Games do not equal serious military training. We've also determined that anyone with the will to commit an act of terror, will do so of their own accord. I mean, it couldn't possibly be Russia's recent attempts to annex part of Eastern Europe that weren't within its borders (Georgia, South Ossetia), no, no way their recent actions towards those two countries could've made anyone angry, least of all their inhabitants. *rolls eyes*

Or, of course, the issue of Chechnya, what with a really pissed of militant Islamic group taking up arms against the Russian Government. I'm surprised that no-one has blamed them yet, considering that they have undertaken suicide-bombings in the past.

 

[Jakub324]

This is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard. What do people have against gaming? EVERY government seems to have a department devoted to killing this generations fun by linking it to something negative (for the record, I'm talking about the game in general, not that particular mission. One day, people like them will be remembered alongside Puritans.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Yes, because a video game where you mow down people with a machine gun is great training for being a SUICIDED BOMBER!

-_-

 

[Thaluikhain]

On the other hand, those of us defending video games also have to be realistic, and acknowlege when they other side has some legitimate points. I doubt "Modern Warfare 2" inspired this, and even if it did it's no worse than any other work of fiction that inspired real world events (like the book "Hijacked"). It is true that shooter games can be used as part of a training process. It helps with visualization, and developing tactics and an understanding of what you are trying to do. Our military in the US uses FPS games as a *part* of training, and so do a lot of other armed forces groups. Indeed one of the selling points for some games like "ARMA" is that they are hyper realistic, and were developed as training tools. It's hard to deny that the terrorists involved probably did train with FPS games, because almost anyone with combat training and access to the technology probably did. Terrorists are not stupid. I'd imagine like a lot of groups these guys probably did the FPS games while working out and practicing physical skills, and also doing things like paintball (which is another common training exercise).

That is true, I was hoping something would mention that.

Having said that, there's quite a bit of wincing when people hear that the US military uses video games for training purposes.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

They're saying the terrorists could be training tactics on the game, not that the game itself inspired it. Frankly, it's plausible -- has everyone forgotten the US Marine Corps version of Doom? "No Russian" is a pretty good look at how to go about shooting unarmed civilians. I doubt that it's very realistic in the way the terrorists escaped, but then escape is usually pretty low on the list of things to do for terrorists these days. Would you guys freak out if someone flew a hijacked plane into a building, not because people died, but because the media suggested they might have trained on a flight sim?

 

[stompy]

Or, of course, the issue of Chechnya, what with a really pissed of militant Islamic group taking up arms against the Russian Government. I'm surprised that no-one has blamed them yet, considering that they have undertaken suicide-bombings in the past.

I know right? Russia acting like they have no natural enemies of their own making. That's rich.

The fact that this 'journalism' comes from a state-owned media outlet does make me wonder whether the Kremlin wants to deflect attention away from the issues surrounding the region. Food for thought, at least.

 

[Ramare]

*snip*

Well, to be fair, if you're playing a certain FPS game, like ARMA, for example, being serious about it, and playing with squadmates/friends, it can teach you tactics. And although it can teach you which end is the loud one, certainly; it can also potentially teach you how to operate, not fire, but operate the weapon. Reloading, how to properly hold, where the fire selector switch is, where the bolt release is, depending on game, of course. Like someone else said, alone, games of any kind aren't training for anything, but a supplement, that they can be. Again, it depends on the game in question.

 

[Alphavillain]

Russia Today: a model of sober and objective reporting...it is not.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Video games are the current boogieman, and it's international. Blaming video games is a way of avoiding serious societal issues. It's nice for a lot of people to delude themselves into thinking that they can prevent terrorism by taking away their training tools, rather than having to put insane amounts of blood on their hands to destroy the cultures involved (though this is an entirely differant discussion). Video games are blamed for most of society's ills today, and they are not the first thing to be put into such a position, nor will they be the last as the central problems are not going to go away no matter what anyone does.

On the other hand, those of us defending video games also have to be realistic, and acknowlege when they other side has some legitimate points. I doubt "Modern Warfare 2" inspired this, and even if it did it's no worse than any other work of fiction that inspired real world events (like the book "Hijacked"). It is true that shooter games can be used as part of a training process. It helps with visualization, and developing tactics and an understanding of what you are trying to do. Our military in the US uses FPS games as a *part* of training, and so do a lot of other armed forces groups. Indeed one of the selling points for some games like "ARMA" is that they are hyper realistic, and were developed as training tools. It's hard to deny that the terrorists involved probably did train with FPS games, because almost anyone with combat training and access to the technology probably did. Terrorists are not stupid. I'd imagine like a lot of groups these guys probably did the FPS games while working out and practicing physical skills, and also doing things like paintball (which is another common training exercise).

As far as demonizing the Russians in games goes, well they seemed well on the path to reform, but they have themselves to blame for their return to popular consciousness as the bad guys. Ukraine, Georgia, threatening Poland, cutting off fuel to the EU... it's not exactly unwarrented. As someone pointed out though, "Modern Warfare 2" did have a differant justification other than the Russians simply being douches for the sake of being douches.

Thank you. Obviously, aiming a gun in a videogame is nothing like shooting one in real life. However, tactics in realistic videogames, like, say, Modern Warfare 2, ArmA II, or America's Freakin' Army, are very similar to those used in real life, and can be used as training tools. It's perfectly plausible that these guys trained on a videogame, whether it was a mod for ArmA or America's Army, or they used the off the shelf mission from MW2. Legitimate militaries do it, why not terrorist groups?

 

[Senaro]

I wasn't aware Fox News started airing in Russia.

 

[Sixcess]

I knew it! I knew games would be blamed! Games still aren't taken seriously as a medium, so they have become an outlet of the media to blame events with occasionally nothing to do with said game, but "oh the same location was involved it must have been relevant" or "some kid played a violent game, then committed a murder" argument to blame. Some people just don't have a good mindset. Its still free thought, and just because they did something in a game doesn't mean that a majority, or even all people think its right in real life. Its not the game's fault, the person involved either chose to do it, or had clouded judgement.

MEDIA! STOP BLAMING GAMES! THEY ARE NOT THE CAUSE!

In this case I don't think video gaming can play the 'misunderstood victim of an uninformed media' card. Infinity Ward/Activision knew exactly what they were doing when they put that level in the game - and what they were doing was stirring up controversy for a bit of extra publicity.

This isn't some indie fringe title like Postal 2 we're talking about here. This is a major, cross platform multi million selling franchise from a massive publisher, and this kind of reaction was inevitable.

I don't think the developers/publishers of MW2 are in any way responsible for the attack - that's a ridiculous allegation. However I do think that they are 100% responsible for making this kind of ill informed attack so easy.

 

[stompy]

That's a generally accepted political tactic though, and one everyone should be familiar with by now. Remember Clinton launching cruise missiles at Sudanese and Afghan targets during the breaking of the Lewinsky scandal? Or the numerous 'alert' changes by the Bush Administration, during the time that people were uncovering that they'd made up lies about Iraq's weapons programs?

Diversion is a primary tactic of politicians, usually when they say one thing, we should be looking elsewhere to find out what it is they're hiding.

I'm Australian, so no, I don't remember those incidents. Sorry. Though, I get what you're saying. I guess what really bugs me is that, in those instances, it was the media actually reporting on something, not a made-up story propagated by what essentially amounts to a propaganda tool for the Kremlin. Press in Russia hasn't got much freer, which is a worry for proponents of democracy and free speech in the country.

 

[scotth266]

Excluding the fact that you can opt-out of the violence: I thought the whole point of No Russian was shooting people, not conducting suicide bombings.

Two entirely different things there, Russia Today.

 

[Therumancer]

"With all of the people "downloading, playing, and watching" Modern Warfare 2, the report suggests that terrorists could be training on these types of games too."

Bull. Shit. Playing a game like Modern Warfare 2 is NOTHING like actually firing a gun at someone in real combat. It might LOOK like it, but it's NOT THE SAME! Playing Call of Duty is the equivelant of playing Cops and Robbers.... in the future.

You probably didn't read my previous message.

You are correct that firing a gun in a FPS is nothing like firing one IRL, but FPS games are a valuable training tool when it comes to tactics and so on. FPS-type games are one of the elements your going to intergrate into a modern training program. The selling point of some games like the "ARMA" series is that they were developed as training simulators.

Let's say your a terrorist organization, you've probably got guns galore, and people that can teach other people how to shoot them. In between going out and learning how to shoot those guns, being made to work out, and probably doing other things like paintball, FPS games are probably going to be intergrated (assuming they have the tech) to help people train mentally.

Of course that doesn't mean that FPS games should be banned or blamed any more than paint guns, which can also be used as part of training.

Reality always differs from a mission, but just imagine your planning a terrorist attack, and you have guard schedules and a layout for the area your going to (especially if it's a public building), with the construction tools availible out there it's probably not all that difficult to build an approximation of the mission, and have people run through it in a FPS game. That could help a LOT when it comes to doing it in reality, though ultimatly your relying on the other training for them to inevitably adapt to the actual conditions (no training simulation is ever going to match reality).

I mean I disagree with the arguements being made overall, but there is some validity to what is being said.

Of course to be honest I'm far more worried about various terrorist websites and training camps that exist to "teach muslim men the art of self defense". Not to mention the number of terrorists and terrorism supporters acting as professors in a lot of our universities right now. Overall any claims about video games are minor compared to other problems within our society:



http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=19591


http://www.freeman.org/m_online/mar03/pipes1.htm

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2010/October/College-Professor-Calls-for-Israels-Destruction/


Then of course we have Julio Pino which is still going on (I think he's pushing to have Hamas removed from a list of terrorist organizations), this link dealing with a university giving him some wonky leave after he was caught, and the guy who did so getting fired:

http://townhall.com/columnists/MikeAdams/2007/11/30/kent_state_fires_chair_and_terrorist_sympathizer

Then we have this guy who is linked to the pro-communist terror community:

http://www.aim.org/aim-report/ayer-head-professor-defends-terrorist-ayers/


It gets even worse if you really start digging, and I'd imagine Russia has similar problems. If you want to deal with terrorism even defensively, you have to start asking yourself some uncomfortable social questions. Video games are comparitively an easy target compared to putting more security on academic student transfers, websites for terrorism supported by university resources, and even the question of when someone's actions become treason, which is still a crime, just one we never really enforce in the US due to it having a bad reputation. Just like how free speech is limited in certain cases like threatening people, slander, libel, and similar things. There is a differance between criticizing the goverment and it's policies, and directly trying to undermine or destroy it. Time of conflict being one of the few occasions when I've mentioned that I feel regulating free speech is actually okay (and only for the duration of the conflict), but even so I am not all that comfortable with this myself, but still it's the kind of issue that society needs to start addressing despite it being uncomfortable rather than screaming that video games are the devil.

 

[Crimsane]

Russian gov't-funded stations turn out to be Fox News Russia. Nice.