Say hello to the new Iron Woman

The Philistine

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I don't get the assertions that Riri Williams is not a new character. Tony Stark did not go through some cosmic anomaly and turn into a 15 year old black girl. She's a new character whose inspired by an existing one, and using the existing popularity to bridge the gap between new fans and old ones. If it was a complaint about just branching off an existing franchise I could understand. But claiming she's not a new character is bizarre.

My biggest turn-off about the character is that she's yet another teenage superhero origin story, and I'm burnt out on those.
 

shrekfan246

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hermes said:
shrekfan246 said:
hermes said:
I used to have an issue with changing a character identity while keeping the name, until I realized they have been doing it for years.

How many people named Flash has there been? How many Robins (some of them are women, by the way)? How many Ant-men? It was almost a superpower for The Phantom back in the 40s, and that is not even going into villains territory. There is even a recent plot for who gets to be Batman once Bruce Wayne is not around.

I just hope she gets to grow into an original character, like Ms Marvel and Ultimate Spiderman has, instead of just being "Stark with a feminine form"
Ah, but see, there's a key difference here, see.

What's the common factor between Jay Garrick, Barry Allen, (classic) Wally West, Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Damian Wayne, Stephanie Brown, Carrie Kelley, Helena Wayne, Hank Pym, Scott Lang, and Eric O'Grady?
Yeah, I hear you. But that hasn't saved some of the changes from being criticized (look at Thor/Jane Foster). For those cases, I tend to go with Yatzhee's opinion:
I mean, I'm a fan, and I've just spent a whole review whining like a broken motor. Fans are clingy, complaining dipshits who will never, ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices, the happier you'll be for it.
(Incidentally, why not buy a Zero Punctuation t-shirt?)
It does bear noting that Carrie Kelley probably has the longest history of being a female Robin, and she's not even in the mainstream continuity. But on a similar note, they've done basically this exact sort of thing for big characters too in the past; Batgirl, Batwoman, and Supergirl immediately come to mind (and multiple people have also taken all of those roles). While they're ever in the shadow of the big two, they're all characters in their own right, and people generally seem to be okay with them, at least now. Spider-Woman, too. Not sure why there's any assumption this will turn out differently.

I do find complaints about Miles Morales to be particularly hilarious, though, because a lot of the complaints just seemed to ignore that Peter Parker hasn't been the sole Spider-Man for quite a while. ... er, sort of, I guess, and of course that whole thing got a lot of criticism back in the day, too.
 

Something Amyss

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Happyninja42 said:
Sorry, I was making that comment in regards to the other young, black, female engineer character that was mentioned earlier, and then asked why they don't use her. My point was that I've never heard of her, and likely very few people outside of die hard Iron Man fans have heard of her, so she has no draw power for the market. Hence why they wouldn't use her, and would instead make up a new character for the role.
My bad, I missed that. I'd seen several people (or maybe just the same couple over and over, not sure) bring up Pepper, so I thought that's who you meant.

I don't offhand remember the character in question, so I'm guessing she's fairly obscure, but I could have missed her or just not remembered her. Moreover, unless she's a teen, she might be missing the point.

Part of what made Marvel popular was its relatable characters. Another part, though somewhat overlapped, is the fact that they broke from the tradition of adult superheroes, with kids functioning almost exclusively as sidekicks. The idea that Peter Parker was just a kid with problems like his readership was originally quite novel (though his original appearance read almost like nerd revenge fantasies, though that could be argued as "relatable" I guess). Peter was the hero, rather than the person whose job it was to be caught, and people responded to that.

Teen superheroes give younger readers something to aspire to. And, like video games, it's sometimes easy to forget amidst a sea of complaints that comics aren't made solely for 30-40 something white men. 15 may be a bit young, I don't really know. I doubt Marvel did this without some research, though. For all the "they're worse than Konami" stuff, most of what Marvel's done to "piss off its fans" is not ignore the rest of its fanbase.
 

happyninja42

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Something Amyss said:
Happyninja42 said:
Sorry, I was making that comment in regards to the other young, black, female engineer character that was mentioned earlier, and then asked why they don't use her. My point was that I've never heard of her, and likely very few people outside of die hard Iron Man fans have heard of her, so she has no draw power for the market. Hence why they wouldn't use her, and would instead make up a new character for the role.
My bad, I missed that. I'd seen several people (or maybe just the same couple over and over, not sure) bring up Pepper, so I thought that's who you meant.

I don't offhand remember the character in question, so I'm guessing she's fairly obscure, but I could have missed her or just not remembered her. Moreover, unless she's a teen, she might be missing the point.

Part of what made Marvel popular was its relatable characters. Another part, though somewhat overlapped, is the fact that they broke from the tradition of adult superheroes, with kids functioning almost exclusively as sidekicks. The idea that Peter Parker was just a kid with problems like his readership was originally quite novel (though his original appearance read almost like nerd revenge fantasies, though that could be argued as "relatable" I guess). Peter was the hero, rather than the person whose job it was to be caught, and people responded to that.

Teen superheroes give younger readers something to aspire to. And, like video games, it's sometimes easy to forget amidst a sea of complaints that comics aren't made solely for 30-40 something white men. 15 may be a bit young, I don't really know. I doubt Marvel did this without some research, though. For all the "they're worse than Konami" stuff, most of what Marvel's done to "piss off its fans" is not ignore the rest of its fanbase.

Bolded for emphasis here:

The fact that you don't know who I mean either, just helps support my theory on why they didn't use her. xD Yeah she exists already, but nobody really knows who she is. She's a C List supporting character, for another support character. She's hardly going to have that much drawing power in the market. But a fresh new face with a brand new background (that isn't already bogged down by decades of backstory crap and retcons)? Yeah that's way more logical to me.

And yep, I agree they are making an effort to aim for a younger audience, by having younger heroes take on the key roles. Either by making them younger (in the case of Peter Parker and Miles Morales in that particular Spiderman title line, and other examples), or by having younger people take on the established mantle. And it works. I mean, the easiest way to get a kid invested in a story, to make them care about it, and love it, is to give them a character that they could say "That could be me, I could be doing that stuff!" I mean hell, why do we think the Goonies is such a classic, and firmly rooted in the hearts of a generation of kids? Because these kids, roughly the age bracket of most of the people the movie was made for, got to have this awesome adventure, with pirates! And buried treasure! And a map! And crazy Music of Death traps! That movie would be way more boring if it was all adults, and kids would not have found it as enjoyable.

So yeah, aging down the line of heroes makes perfect sense. Diversifying their genders and ethnicities makes perfect sense. It might seem silly to some, to say that it's easier to identify with a hero, when that hero is a lot like you, but it is. That's how humans are. I would not have found Wesley Crusher as personally identifiable if he didn't look a lot like me, happened to be my age, and had my own fucking name! I mean the self insert into the fantastic world of Next Generation was pretty much all done for me every episode. I mean come on! The number of Wesley/Troy fantasies alone fueled my budding libido for years! "Yes Counselor, please let's have a one on one session in your quarters. I have some things to discuss with you. Sure, feel free to get undressed if it makes you more comfortable." ...where was I? Right!

It had me hooked! And not just because of Deanna's cleavage and jet black hair...and striking eyes...gah! Damnit!

So, to give a character that young black girls could look up to, identify with, and imagine being heroic as, boom, hello new cash flow demographic. Which is honestly what this is all about. Well, not ALL about that. I do think Bendis genuinely wants to diversify the lineup, just so that he can reach more people, and let more people enjoy comic books. But on top of that, it's also about that money. And having a diverse lineup, designed to tap into various pools of money, as well as being genuinely good works of fiction (I hope), seems to be the most logical, and intelligent marketing strategy in today's world.
 

Gorrath

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Lightknight said:
Doesn't really seem to matter anymore. Not really. I'm beginning to think of the whole marvel universe the way I thought of the Exiles series. Infinite worlds and infinite iterations/permutations of each hero/villain.
Out of pure curiosity, do you consider that a positive or negative? I see the pros and cons of it and so I'm torn. On the one hand, you aren't stuck re-imagining the same character over and over or else stuck repeating the same story. On the other hand, you lose a concise narrative, probably contradict yourself, and perhaps end up repeating the same stories over and over with different faces. I guess in the end I'd rather see different faces at least if we're going to read a perpetual remixing of the same tropes.
 

Drops a Sweet Katana

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Areloch said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
inu-kun said:
Also, "Riri is a science genius who enrolls in MIT at the age of 15. She comes to the attention of Tony when she builds her own Iron Man suit in her dorm. " Dear lord the amount of mary sue in 2 sentences.
I mean, Tony Stark built the first suit in a cave, so it's not exactly the most improbable thing. 'Joined [insert prestigious institute] at [insert improbably young age]' seems pretty par-for-the-course in terms of superhero backstories, especially for a tech-centric one. I really wish it wasn't though.
That's been brought up as a counter-example a few times now, and while I don't remember how it was handled in the comics so well, if it's even remotely like the movie, he was also surrounded by millions of dollars of military-grade equipment and told to build stuff. Sure, he sidestepped their orders and somehow built a robo suit without them noticing, but lacking for expensive, fancy material he wasn't.

How on earth does a 15 year old MIT student get access to that kinda stuff?
Reasons and shit? I don't know. It's not exactly like comics or their movies are particularly adherent to real world issues like 'where did I even get my hands on this shit?' It was the same thing with Stark and the cave. I doubt he would be able throw together working power out of mostly missile parts if this made any kind of real world sense.

EDIT: Actually I read in one of the other comments that apparently she reverse engineered an Iron Man suit. How she got one, I don't know.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Drops a Sweet Katana said:
Areloch said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
inu-kun said:
Also, "Riri is a science genius who enrolls in MIT at the age of 15. She comes to the attention of Tony when she builds her own Iron Man suit in her dorm. " Dear lord the amount of mary sue in 2 sentences.
I mean, Tony Stark built the first suit in a cave, so it's not exactly the most improbable thing. 'Joined [insert prestigious institute] at [insert improbably young age]' seems pretty par-for-the-course in terms of superhero backstories, especially for a tech-centric one. I really wish it wasn't though.
That's been brought up as a counter-example a few times now, and while I don't remember how it was handled in the comics so well, if it's even remotely like the movie, he was also surrounded by millions of dollars of military-grade equipment and told to build stuff. Sure, he sidestepped their orders and somehow built a robo suit without them noticing, but lacking for expensive, fancy material he wasn't.

How on earth does a 15 year old MIT student get access to that kinda stuff?
Reasons and shit? I don't know. It's not exactly like comics or their movies are particularly adherent to real world issues like 'where did I even get my hands on this shit?' It was the same thing with Stark and the cave. I doubt he would be able throw together working power out of mostly missile parts if this made any kind of real world sense.

EDIT: Actually I read in one of the other comments that apparently she reverse engineered an Iron Man suit. How she got one, I don't know.
MIT has a robotics department. Stark probably donated one of his really old obsolete suits after deweaponising it.
 

Drops a Sweet Katana

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altnameJag said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
Areloch said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
inu-kun said:
Also, "Riri is a science genius who enrolls in MIT at the age of 15. She comes to the attention of Tony when she builds her own Iron Man suit in her dorm. " Dear lord the amount of mary sue in 2 sentences.
I mean, Tony Stark built the first suit in a cave, so it's not exactly the most improbable thing. 'Joined [insert prestigious institute] at [insert improbably young age]' seems pretty par-for-the-course in terms of superhero backstories, especially for a tech-centric one. I really wish it wasn't though.
That's been brought up as a counter-example a few times now, and while I don't remember how it was handled in the comics so well, if it's even remotely like the movie, he was also surrounded by millions of dollars of military-grade equipment and told to build stuff. Sure, he sidestepped their orders and somehow built a robo suit without them noticing, but lacking for expensive, fancy material he wasn't.

How on earth does a 15 year old MIT student get access to that kinda stuff?
Reasons and shit? I don't know. It's not exactly like comics or their movies are particularly adherent to real world issues like 'where did I even get my hands on this shit?' It was the same thing with Stark and the cave. I doubt he would be able throw together working power out of mostly missile parts if this made any kind of real world sense.

EDIT: Actually I read in one of the other comments that apparently she reverse engineered an Iron Man suit. How she got one, I don't know.
MIT has a robotics department. Stark probably donated one of his really old obsolete suits after deweaponising it.
Ah, that would make sense.
 

happyninja42

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Drops a Sweet Katana said:
altnameJag said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
Areloch said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
inu-kun said:
Also, "Riri is a science genius who enrolls in MIT at the age of 15. She comes to the attention of Tony when she builds her own Iron Man suit in her dorm. " Dear lord the amount of mary sue in 2 sentences.
I mean, Tony Stark built the first suit in a cave, so it's not exactly the most improbable thing. 'Joined [insert prestigious institute] at [insert improbably young age]' seems pretty par-for-the-course in terms of superhero backstories, especially for a tech-centric one. I really wish it wasn't though.
That's been brought up as a counter-example a few times now, and while I don't remember how it was handled in the comics so well, if it's even remotely like the movie, he was also surrounded by millions of dollars of military-grade equipment and told to build stuff. Sure, he sidestepped their orders and somehow built a robo suit without them noticing, but lacking for expensive, fancy material he wasn't.

How on earth does a 15 year old MIT student get access to that kinda stuff?
Reasons and shit? I don't know. It's not exactly like comics or their movies are particularly adherent to real world issues like 'where did I even get my hands on this shit?' It was the same thing with Stark and the cave. I doubt he would be able throw together working power out of mostly missile parts if this made any kind of real world sense.

EDIT: Actually I read in one of the other comments that apparently she reverse engineered an Iron Man suit. How she got one, I don't know.
MIT has a robotics department. Stark probably donated one of his really old obsolete suits after deweaponising it.
Ah, that would make sense.
Heck in Civil War, it opens up with Stark basically writing a blank check to some tech college for any and all projects the students might dream up. Basically under the "throw money at it until something good comes of it" theory on research and development. Assuming comic Stark did something similar, they'd basically have no cash limit for any of the kid's projects. So she could easily get the funding/resources/facilities she'd need to build the thing.
 

Drops a Sweet Katana

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Happyninja42 said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
altnameJag said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
Areloch said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
inu-kun said:
Also, "Riri is a science genius who enrolls in MIT at the age of 15. She comes to the attention of Tony when she builds her own Iron Man suit in her dorm. " Dear lord the amount of mary sue in 2 sentences.
I mean, Tony Stark built the first suit in a cave, so it's not exactly the most improbable thing. 'Joined [insert prestigious institute] at [insert improbably young age]' seems pretty par-for-the-course in terms of superhero backstories, especially for a tech-centric one. I really wish it wasn't though.
That's been brought up as a counter-example a few times now, and while I don't remember how it was handled in the comics so well, if it's even remotely like the movie, he was also surrounded by millions of dollars of military-grade equipment and told to build stuff. Sure, he sidestepped their orders and somehow built a robo suit without them noticing, but lacking for expensive, fancy material he wasn't.

How on earth does a 15 year old MIT student get access to that kinda stuff?
Reasons and shit? I don't know. It's not exactly like comics or their movies are particularly adherent to real world issues like 'where did I even get my hands on this shit?' It was the same thing with Stark and the cave. I doubt he would be able throw together working power out of mostly missile parts if this made any kind of real world sense.

EDIT: Actually I read in one of the other comments that apparently she reverse engineered an Iron Man suit. How she got one, I don't know.
MIT has a robotics department. Stark probably donated one of his really old obsolete suits after deweaponising it.
Ah, that would make sense.
Heck in Civil War, it opens up with Stark basically writing a blank check to some tech college for any and all projects the students might dream up. Basically under the "throw money at it until something good comes of it" theory on research and development. Assuming comic Stark did something similar, they'd basically have no cash limit for any of the kid's projects. So she could easily get the funding/resources/facilities she'd need to build the thing.
I was wondering if it was something to do with that. Didn't know if it's a thing in the comics.
 

happyninja42

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Drops a Sweet Katana said:
Happyninja42 said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
altnameJag said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
Areloch said:
Drops a Sweet Katana said:
inu-kun said:
Also, "Riri is a science genius who enrolls in MIT at the age of 15. She comes to the attention of Tony when she builds her own Iron Man suit in her dorm. " Dear lord the amount of mary sue in 2 sentences.
I mean, Tony Stark built the first suit in a cave, so it's not exactly the most improbable thing. 'Joined [insert prestigious institute] at [insert improbably young age]' seems pretty par-for-the-course in terms of superhero backstories, especially for a tech-centric one. I really wish it wasn't though.
That's been brought up as a counter-example a few times now, and while I don't remember how it was handled in the comics so well, if it's even remotely like the movie, he was also surrounded by millions of dollars of military-grade equipment and told to build stuff. Sure, he sidestepped their orders and somehow built a robo suit without them noticing, but lacking for expensive, fancy material he wasn't.

How on earth does a 15 year old MIT student get access to that kinda stuff?
Reasons and shit? I don't know. It's not exactly like comics or their movies are particularly adherent to real world issues like 'where did I even get my hands on this shit?' It was the same thing with Stark and the cave. I doubt he would be able throw together working power out of mostly missile parts if this made any kind of real world sense.

EDIT: Actually I read in one of the other comments that apparently she reverse engineered an Iron Man suit. How she got one, I don't know.
MIT has a robotics department. Stark probably donated one of his really old obsolete suits after deweaponising it.
Ah, that would make sense.
Heck in Civil War, it opens up with Stark basically writing a blank check to some tech college for any and all projects the students might dream up. Basically under the "throw money at it until something good comes of it" theory on research and development. Assuming comic Stark did something similar, they'd basically have no cash limit for any of the kid's projects. So she could easily get the funding/resources/facilities she'd need to build the thing.
I was wondering if it was something to do with that. Didn't know if it's a thing in the comics.
Oh I have no idea if they are related, I'm just saying that MCU Tony was willing to toss mountains of money at young STEM students to try and "change the world", and that's not out of character for him as I understand it, to promote technology at least. I'm just using it as a precedent for why/how a school would have the resources that would allow a 15 year old girl to build a flying combat suit of armor, and it be believable. If your entire R&D division is being bank rolled by Mr. Money Bucks Tony Stark, there really isn't much holding you back from making your dream come to life. xD
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Well, of all the list of complaints I don't really buy into the child prodigy thing being outrageous. The likes of I sure as fuck wouldn't be reverse engineering Star Tech so even if she was just another generic pasty white kid, she'd have to be a fucking genius otherwise Tony wouldn't pay her time of day.
 

Estarc

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Comic book fans amuse me. As does the fact that the writers/illustrators of comics are trying to disassociate themselves from their own fan base.

I like female super heroes better anyway, personally, but I'm not a comic fan. Spider-Gwen is the best Spider hero, that's all I'm saying.
 

Floppertje

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That hair looks like it's going to be a problem with that helmet... Otherwise... Eh, who cares about the child prodigy thing. Didn't stark build his first circuit board at 4 and graduated suma cum laude from MIT at 18? what's the difference?
 

mecegirl

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Most top tier heros should be dead or retired anyway. They never let the characters grow up. Iron Man's frost comic was in the 60's.If the comics actually let charcter age past 40 he would have been forced to retire anyway. Thats why I like that Batman Beyond cartoon. An older Bruce Wayne was an interesting concept.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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Floppertje said:
That hair looks like it's going to be a problem with that helmet... Otherwise... Eh, who cares about the child prodigy thing. Didn't stark build his first circuit board at 4 and graduated suma cum laude from MIT at 18? what's the difference?
The difference being that he didn't build his first suit of Iron Man armor untill he was well into adulthood, he had access to stolen military hardware to make it, and the first suit was a piece of crap. Heck, even the second one used roller skates to get around.



The new person is at MIT, built her suit out of a bunch of parts taken from other people's projects, and that suit was capable of all kinds of crazy feats right from the get go and only fell apart after she punched a truck with it and she still survived unharmed.

Granted it's MARVEL MIT, so weird acts of super science are kind of the norm, but it still feels a little too much too quickly.

Doesn't help matters that the art is just freaking horrible. She looks WAY older than 15, everything looks traced from something else and slapped with a shading effect (Seriously, her armor looks like someone copy/pasted Optimus Prime's head onto a suit of T-45 Power Armor), it's just not pleasant on the eyes.
 

Something Amyss

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mecegirl said:
They never let the characters grow up.
Or if they do, the Editor in Chief spends years trying to undo it, sometimes ending in a deal with the devil.
Floppertje said:
That hair looks like it's going to be a problem with that helmet... Otherwise... Eh, who cares about the child prodigy thing. Didn't stark build his first circuit board at 4 and graduated suma cum laude from MIT at 18? what's the difference?
Tony had two Masters by 19, but I doubt anyone will let that get in their way. Kind of like how people we upset that a 28 year old was too young to play a child prodigy in the latest Fantastic Four movie (because really, there are so few problems with that movie that we need to nitpick age)

Estarc said:
Comic book fans amuse me. As does the fact that the writers/illustrators of comics are trying to disassociate themselves from their own fan base.
I probably would distance myself from comic fans in their shoes, too.
 

mecegirl

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Something Amyss said:
mecegirl said:
They never let the characters grow up.
Or if they do, the Editor in Chief spends years trying to undo it, sometimes ending in a deal with the devil.


Same thing with death.

I think the Batman comics are a prime example of why I only dabble in the big two comic universe. Ignoring the new 52 and the even newer reboot. Things just never progressed(only to be sent back in time by a reboot).

Batman himself, even if he never died, should at least have grown old and retired. And by old I mean at least 50 ish because with the amount of injuries he's had in the past his body would just stop working the way he'd want it to. He's been stabbed, shot, burned, and had bones(his back included) broken. Including Bruce off the top of my head I can think of 11 Gotham based superheros.

1: Batman
2: Robin #1 now Nightwing
3: Robin #2 now Red Hood
4: Robin #3 now Red Robin
5: Robin #4 previously Spoiler now Batgirl #3
6: Robin #5
7: Batgirl #1 now Oracle
8: Batgirl #2 now Black Bat
9: Batwoman
10: Huntress
11: The Question #2

And there are more... that is just who I would consider the core members because of their connections to each other. With Oracle's network the city of Gotham would no longer be a cesspool of crime. She can direct their movements and make them a prime fighting team. And with the help of the Gotham police department they really could shape the city up. Also for some reason villains keep breaking out of Arkahm and the City of Gotham refuses to reinstate the death penalty. Like Batman doesn't need to kill the joker, dude should be fried or injected because every time he breaks out he kills in the tens or hundreds. There is no way the city's government would stand for that. Batman and his family should be facing new threats not old ones. Instead they, like most hero's in the big 2, are stuck in a time loop.

Shaking things up in the comics with a new hero to take up the mantle is the only thing mainstream comics can do to give a little excitement. What should happen is that the characters die or grow old and their sidekicks take their place. But we all know that Tony will never age past this point and if he does he will be rebooted back to maybe mid 30's if not younger. Or if he dies he will be magically brought back to life. So any fanboys complaining about pandering need to read a book. Like a good one with a beginning, middle and end. Maybe their eyes will be opened by proper story telling instead of continuing to read characters stuck in limbo.
 

Something Amyss

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mecegirl said:
Same thing with death.
I know. I just had to take a shot at One More Day.

I think the Batman comics are a prime example of why I only dabble in the big two comic universe. Ignoring the new 52 and the even newer reboot. Things just never progressed(only to be sent back in time by a reboot).
Ironically, Batman (and indeed a lot of these really old heroes) are from an era where comic books were largely disposable and few people were really looking into longevity. It's why we even really have legacy characters in the first place. But they've essentially become victims of their success, because now people will throw a fit over new legacy characters, you can't get rid of the old characters or have any meaningful change, except once every few decades, etc.

It's also, ironically, why the continuity gets so borked. Because they have to return to pretty much the status quo.

Kind of one of the reasons I'm interested in the MCU, because as actors age they will need to be replaced anyway. It's going to be interesting to see whether they try and reboot the characters or maybe just let them get old and replace them.

Multiple actors clearly can play a role (Bruce, I'm looking at you), but with guys like Downey and Jackson so identifiable in these roles, I'm kind of hoping they choose not to. Especially since there are more untapped superheroes in Marvel's roster than people on the planet. >.> It's not like they're short on ideas.
 

MrFalconfly

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This smells a bit of Batman Beyond.

And I absolutely love Batman Beyond.

It's a great concept. Take the old hero, retire him, get a new aspiring hero (say, if you want a black, female, young character instead of a 40-something businessman), have the new character don the suit, have the old hero in the background providing funding and assistance.