Say hello to the new Iron Woman

Cicada 5

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Vykrel said:
serious question: have Marvel comics come up with any ORIGINAL female superheroes in recent years? any noteworthy ones?

it seems to me that in order to be diverse, their go-to tactic is to just sort of gender-bend existing heroes. She-Hulk, Spider-Woman, Thor...ina. etc. etc.

its just so lazy.
Marvel and DC come up with characters not connected with existing franchises all the time. The problem is these character rarely if ever catch on due to being stuck with crappy writers and editors (because the companies aren't that confident in them) and/or fans dismissing them and not caring. There's also the fact that any new character created for the Big 2 will be considered property of the Big 2 and the creators will receive no money for whatever movie or tv deals they get meaning writers have less incentive to create new characters and save their stuff for indies.
 

Naldan

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Will she really start being Iron Woman at the age of 15?

This is my only concern, besides the writing of her character most likely (trend) being shit.

15 years MIT student gets pampered by a rich macho for being super intelligent. How relatable is that? 15 motherfucking years. She can't even drink alcohol. Smoke. Lose a limp.


Oh, they're targeting my generation. Millenials. OK, I take it back. Might be something here.
 

happyninja42

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Naldan said:
Will she really start being Iron Woman at the age of 15?

This is my only concern, besides the writing of her character most likely (trend) being shit.

15 years MIT student gets pampered by a rich macho for being super intelligent. How relatable is that? 15 motherfucking years. She can't even drink alcohol. Smoke. Lose a limp.


Oh, they're targeting my generation. Millenials. OK, I take it back. Might be something here.
How is that any different from the teenage versions of Peter Parker? A young genius who can't drink, smoke, or lose a limp, whatever that means. How many Spiderman stories focused on the woes of him being underage for drinking and smoking? (not counting any PSA specific comics they did that break continuity). I'm willing to bet not many, if at all. Yet they somehow came up with compelling stories for Peter Parker to take part in, despite his crippling state of being a minor. I'm confident they can do it with Riri, just like they did with Miles Morales.
 

Karadalis

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Guys.. guys.. and girls..

The new comic will tank... not because of PC.. not because of social justice...

But because the "art" looks terrible:

https://twitter.com/PixelBuff/status/752284656536588288

But seriously... it seems that even the creators dont really intend this comic to be something long lasting... ive seen webcomics with better art then that.
 

the December King

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Karadalis said:
Guys.. guys.. and girls..

The new comic will tank... not because of PC.. not because of social justice...

But because the "art" looks terrible:

https://twitter.com/PixelBuff/status/752284656536588288
That's not the work from the actual comic, is it? It looks like heavily shaded Poser models with either bad toon shading, or post added lines... either way, that doesn't look great.

But still, maybe the story will be engaging on some level that will outshine/outpace/overcome the visuals?
 

Karadalis

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the December King said:
Karadalis said:
Guys.. guys.. and girls..

The new comic will tank... not because of PC.. not because of social justice...

But because the "art" looks terrible:

https://twitter.com/PixelBuff/status/752284656536588288
That's not the work from the actual comic, is it? It looks like heavily shaded Poser models with either bad toon shading, or post added lines... either way, that doesn't look great.

But still, maybe the story will be engaging on some level that will outshine/outpace/overcome the visuals?
Well i hope it isnt.. maybe only an early draft... I mean it just looks bad.. its just 3d models with deadpan expressions.

Maybe its one of those comics that will have a different artist every other volume or so?
 

mecegirl

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Karadalis said:
the December King said:
Karadalis said:
Guys.. guys.. and girls..

The new comic will tank... not because of PC.. not because of social justice...

But because the "art" looks terrible:

https://twitter.com/PixelBuff/status/752284656536588288
That's not the work from the actual comic, is it? It looks like heavily shaded Poser models with either bad toon shading, or post added lines... either way, that doesn't look great.

But still, maybe the story will be engaging on some level that will outshine/outpace/overcome the visuals?
Well i hope it isnt.. maybe only an early draft... I mean it just looks bad.. its just 3d models with deadpan expressions.

Maybe its one of those comics that will have a different artist every other volume or so?
I was expecting something worse. I think my bar for bad comic book art is too high. That work isn't my preference but it could be worse. Look at that monstrosity posted on the top of this page, that "female" Tony Stark.
 

Karadalis

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mecegirl said:
Karadalis said:
the December King said:
Karadalis said:
Guys.. guys.. and girls..

The new comic will tank... not because of PC.. not because of social justice...

But because the "art" looks terrible:

https://twitter.com/PixelBuff/status/752284656536588288
That's not the work from the actual comic, is it? It looks like heavily shaded Poser models with either bad toon shading, or post added lines... either way, that doesn't look great.

But still, maybe the story will be engaging on some level that will outshine/outpace/overcome the visuals?
Well i hope it isnt.. maybe only an early draft... I mean it just looks bad.. its just 3d models with deadpan expressions.

Maybe its one of those comics that will have a different artist every other volume or so?
I was expecting something worse. I think my bar for bad comic book art is too high. That work isn't my preference but it could be worse. Look at that monstrosity posted on the top of this page, that "female" Tony Stark.
Thing is.. that is just bad art...

But the new stuff is both bad and lazy... wich in my opinion is even worse.
 

Josh123914

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Can't say I have an opinion on this to be honest.

Though I will say I hope the character herself is engaging, faced with either, I prefer a diversity of personality over a diverse ethnic background or gender for my characters.
 

JimB

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Agent_Z said:
For the record, that villain you're talking about actually does have a history of being sexist.
No, he doesn't. He only behaved the way he did to attack straight, white men in general and me in particular. If he had a history of behaving like a sexist prick, then my narrative would fall apart, so he definitely has never made sexist comments about female heroes before.
 

mecegirl

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Karadalis said:
mecegirl said:
Karadalis said:
the December King said:
Karadalis said:
Guys.. guys.. and girls..

The new comic will tank... not because of PC.. not because of social justice...

But because the "art" looks terrible:

https://twitter.com/PixelBuff/status/752284656536588288
That's not the work from the actual comic, is it? It looks like heavily shaded Poser models with either bad toon shading, or post added lines... either way, that doesn't look great.

But still, maybe the story will be engaging on some level that will outshine/outpace/overcome the visuals?
Well i hope it isnt.. maybe only an early draft... I mean it just looks bad.. its just 3d models with deadpan expressions.

Maybe its one of those comics that will have a different artist every other volume or so?
I was expecting something worse. I think my bar for bad comic book art is too high. That work isn't my preference but it could be worse. Look at that monstrosity posted on the top of this page, that "female" Tony Stark.
Thing is.. that is just bad art...

But the new stuff is both bad and lazy... wich in my opinion is even worse.
To my limited knowledge(which boils down to knowing sequential artists during and after college) comic book artists have a very tight schedule so I can see why they would choose something like that. But it would look best if they got a stellar artist for the book. Really good art signals the companies confidence in a book.
 

9tailedflame

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Ugh, another stop on the "let's change the gender/sexuality/race of an already established character and change not much else to avoid having to actually be creative while deflecting any criticism as prejudice" train, choo choo.
 

Vykrel

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DementedSheep said:
Not denying it's lazy but how many noteworthy ORIGNIAL male superheros have they come up with in recent years?
my point wasnt in regards to originality in general, just about the gender-bending. though, they do also need to come up with more new character in general that arent derivative of existing ones.
 

vallorn

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I agree, the art style for the new Iron Woman is just terrible.

Honestly, I don't care anymore. Marvel want a fuss about this for free publicity but they've done this so much that I just don't care. Hell, I like Agents of Shield more than I like most of their recent comics and that show is laughably bad at times.
 

Naldan

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Happyninja42 said:
How is that any different from the teenage versions of Peter Parker? A young genius who can't drink, smoke, or lose a limp, whatever that means. How many Spiderman stories focused on the woes of him being underage for drinking and smoking? (not counting any PSA specific comics they did that break continuity). I'm willing to bet not many, if at all. Yet they somehow came up with compelling stories for Peter Parker to take part in, despite his crippling state of being a minor. I'm confident they can do it with Riri, just like they did with Miles Morales.
I meant limb.

I think you didn't mean to, but that's strawmanning. This Spiderman story of yours not only sounds like a spin-off, but also like complete shit to me. I wouldn't enjoy that, either.
 

happyninja42

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Naldan said:
Happyninja42 said:
How is that any different from the teenage versions of Peter Parker? A young genius who can't drink, smoke, or lose a limp, whatever that means. How many Spiderman stories focused on the woes of him being underage for drinking and smoking? (not counting any PSA specific comics they did that break continuity). I'm willing to bet not many, if at all. Yet they somehow came up with compelling stories for Peter Parker to take part in, despite his crippling state of being a minor. I'm confident they can do it with Riri, just like they did with Miles Morales.
I meant limb.

I think you didn't mean to, but that's strawmanning. This Spiderman story of yours not only sounds like a spin-off, but also like complete shit to me. I wouldn't enjoy that, either.
It's not strawmanning to say your reason for why her story will suck: which boiled down to "She's a teenage minor that nobody could relate to, because she's only 15. Citing that she can't drink or smoke or lose a limb...though I have no idea what being a teenager has to do with losing a limb as you put it. Seriously that makes zero sense.

I mean unless your entire post was sarcastic, then if so, nevermind. But if you were serious, I was pointing out that she's hardly the first teenage superhero they've published, and she's not even the youngest one they've done. Miles Morales was 13 when he first got his powers in the Spiderman series. And the Peter Parker he took the place of in that reality was a teenager in highschool. I don't know his official age, but given the time the comic line lasted, I'm pretty sure he was probably also a minor when he started fighting crime. And those stories were good and compelling.

So again, how is it any different for her, compared to at least 2 other examples of the same concept, that have both been received well by readers, and been at least moderately successful financially?

And seriously:

Naldan said:
15 years MIT student gets pampered by a rich macho for being super intelligent. How relatable is that? 15 motherfucking years. She can't even drink alcohol. Smoke. Lose a limp.
I know you mean limb there, but what in the 9 hells does that have to do with being 15?
 

EyeReaper

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Sometimes I miss the snark, passive-aggressiveness and thinly veiled potshots at "them people who disagree with me" that I associate with the Escapist Community so thoroughly. Then I click on any topic thread involving fictional women or fictional black people. This one's a double whammy, and it certainly didn't disappoint. Or maybe it did. I dunno anymore.

As much as I find the whole "let's take an actual character and change it for no other reason than to make more money" kinda silly... As far as I can tell, the literal problem people are having with this thread is that this new character is named the same. Also that a comic book character as an (admittedly incredibly) stupid background.

"No matter who wins, We lose"
 

Naldan

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Happyninja42 said:
OK, gotta be clear. I meant that I doubt there could be violence when she's involved. Could you imagine her in something where people are getting murdered and mutilated rather violently?

Now, people may suggest that I mean mass-murdering. But just one graphic scene and the committee who nods off panels for a comic would deny it its release. Especially nowadays, where PG-13 really means "for people up to the age 13".

To the rest what you've said: Was it a spin-off? Did it hold anything back, like an ongoing story arc? When was the last time those underage Super-Heroes appeared? Were they even involved with the Avengers?

I mean; This is Iron Woman replacing Iron Man, right?

It simply isn't my taste, I hope you understand that.
 

DementedSheep

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Vykrel said:
DementedSheep said:
Not denying it's lazy but how many noteworthy ORIGNIAL male superheros have they come up with in recent years?
my point wasnt in regards to originality in general, just about the gender-bending. though, they do also need to come up with more new character in general that arent derivative of existing ones.
What the difference? derivative of another hero and derivative of another hero that just happens to be a different gender. This is somehow worse?
You sidestepped the point about them not really being gender bends in the first place. Tony has not become a woman and we don't know much about this character yet.