Say hello to the new Iron Woman

[MerlinCross]

Meh I question how useful this move is in the long run.

Don't get me wrong, more non white males in media is a good thing. I'd like to see more stories from other angles. But what does moves like this, the woman Thor, and others actually say/do in the long run?

"Hey, your (insert race/orantation/belief/etc here) is now being represented as we take out an etablished character. Yay exposure and representing other people, Yay!! You know until the books stop selling at issue 10 - 15+ and then slowly the character is slowly forgotten about until they are a foot note, someone killed as fodder/raise the stakes, or just removed from history."

Cynical? Yes. But comic books tend to do shake ups/changes/etc and then slowly roll back to "normal". More so if they don't sell. Will she stand the test of time and become a good character? Eh we shall see.

 

[shrekfan246]

I eagerly await the storm of angry comments about how this is PC gone mad and Iron Man is perfect the way he is and anyway Man is in his name so how can he possibly be a woman.

Did I say "eagerly"? Oh. I meant "disappointingly".

Guys guys guys....what is *really* disappointing is that I'm the first person to post this clip here. Sad!

Can't argue with those facts.

I mean, shit, like, imagine what would happen if Spider-Man became Spider-Woman? The mind shudders to even think! Or if Heimdall was black! Inconceivable! And don't even get me started on the idea of a woman being able to wield Mjolnir. HAH! As if!

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Oh, I thought they were talking about Rescue going full time. Oh well, invent new character, give character suit of armour - sounds fine to me.

 

[Zontar]

"Fans" and users of the internet are going to be pissed arent they? They are already pissed? Sadly, nothing new.

I don't know, "Fans" are the type of people these comic changes are made to appeal to. Now it never works in the long run (long run being 12 months in this case) and the chance has a 100% chance of reversing within 24 months due to the fact those who jump on will leave within 12 months as they always do and those who stay behind will be fewer then they where last time this cycle happened, but hey it's not like Marvel Comics even needs to brake even at this point given each of Marvel Studio's movies on average brings in 3-5 times as much revenue as the comic subdivision does each year.

Uuuhhh.

You know at this point the obvious panda-throwing to Tumblr in a desperate effort not to be trending the next day on Twitter is getting kinda' old. And the worst part is none of the people they're trying to appeal don't actually read comics. Otherwise they'd know comic continuity and characters are about as solid and consistent as gender-fluid water.

I mean look what happened when they pulled that 'female Thor' shenanigans. Nothing. Nothing happened. Talk show hosts gabbed for a day and a half, no one read the comics, and then it turns out she's not really Thor.

Though I guess we should be glad she's not a dog to appeal to the PETA people again. Woof.

Also how is the fact they gave her an afro not racist? That's African America caricature shit.

Marvel Comics gets a minor (and we're talking very minor here, like "getting competent writers and editors would dwarf this" minor) sales boost from this, so as long as it's deemed worth the effort the shotgun blast to the foot will be done again and again as long as the insurance lets it heal slightly better off then it was before, even if the scars won't go away any time soon.

Marvel Comics seems quite odd in their sales tactics. They're using the HBO method of few ads and using critical acclaim to be free advertisement for them, but HBO makes it work with consistent quality that ranges from good to some of the best work on television, while Marvel has the best of its comics from the past few years be what one could call "inoffensively average" (now that's not exactly true, some things like Daredevil's current run are actually pretty decent, but overall their quality is so low that the only thing shocking about their comparatively low sales numbers is that they aren't lower).

Marvel Comics is dead at this point, a relic of a bygone age that has been taken over by those who don't even hold respect for the medium they work in. In an executive that isn't unusual, but in an artist that's the creative death of a company. Unless it undergoes a purge and renaissance this is going to keep happening until the whole division goes in the red and can't manage to bounce back.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Sheesh, why all the hate for legacy characters? Barry Allen was awesome, Wally West was awesome, Tim Drake and Stephonie Brown were awesome, pick a Green Lantern and they were awesome, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Technically there already an Iron Woman ine one of the alternaitve unvierse, it was the Mangaverse named Tori Stark who was Tony sister. Yeah she didn't last long.

OT- Ok watching that video, how the hell does she put the helmet on without being cover by her own hair let alone getting all of her hair in??!!! In saying so that would like answering why Daken (Wolverine son) mohawk always stick upward when he was wearing Wolvering costume during the Dark Avenger arc?

 

[Casual Shinji]

My first thought at reading the thread title was 'Are they gonna give the iron suit boobs?' We know how much geek fiction just loves its breast plates.

 

[PapaGreg096]

"Fans" and users of the internet are going to be pissed arent they? They are already pissed? Sadly, nothing new.

I don't know, "Fans" are the type of people these comic changes are made to appeal to. Now it never works in the long run (long run being 12 months in this case) and the chance has a 100% chance of reversing within 24 months due to the fact those who jump on will leave within 12 months as they always do and those who stay behind will be fewer then they where last time this cycle happened, but hey it's not like Marvel Comics even needs to brake even at this point given each of Marvel Studio's movies on average brings in 3-5 times as much revenue as the comic subdivision does each year.

Uuuhhh.

You know at this point the obvious panda-throwing to Tumblr in a desperate effort not to be trending the next day on Twitter is getting kinda' old. And the worst part is none of the people they're trying to appeal don't actually read comics. Otherwise they'd know comic continuity and characters are about as solid and consistent as gender-fluid water.

I mean look what happened when they pulled that 'female Thor' shenanigans. Nothing. Nothing happened. Talk show hosts gabbed for a day and a half, no one read the comics, and then it turns out she's not really Thor.

Though I guess we should be glad she's not a dog to appeal to the PETA people again. Woof.

Also how is the fact they gave her an afro not racist? That's African America caricature shit.

Marvel Comics gets a minor (and we're talking very minor here, like "getting competent writers and editors would dwarf this" minor) sales boost from this, so as long as it's deemed worth the effort the shotgun blast to the foot will be done again and again as long as the insurance lets it heal slightly better off then it was before, even if the scars won't go away any time soon.

Marvel Comics seems quite odd in their sales tactics. They're using the HBO method of few ads and using critical acclaim to be free advertisement for them, but HBO makes it work with consistent quality that ranges from good to some of the best work on television, while Marvel has the best of its comics from the past few years be what one could call "inoffensively average" (now that's not exactly true, some things like Daredevil's current run are actually pretty decent, but overall their quality is so low that the only thing shocking about their comparatively low sales numbers is that they aren't lower).

Marvel Comics is dead at this point, a relic of a bygone age that has been taken over by those who don't even hold respect for the medium they work in. In an executive that isn't unusual, but in an artist that's the creative death of a company. Unless it undergoes a purge and renaissance this is going to keep happening until the whole division goes in the red and can't manage to bounce back.

I don't know there is still a crap ton of critically acclaimed Marvel works in the few past years
Billy the worst Xman
Vision
Moon Knight
The Punisher
Luke Cage and Iron fist
Rocket Raccon and Groot
Agent Venom
Carnage
and others
Is there some SJWness here and there sure but Marvel still brings in decent comics.

 

[Zontar]

Sheesh, why all the hate for legacy characters?

Because Marvel's universe is in a temporal stasis in terms of time progression, and so seeing the characters undergo such sudden and dramatic change is the type of thing people tend to want good writers and good artists to be responsible for, both of which Marvel Comics is is critically low supply of.

This comic won't last a year and a half.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Marvel Comics gets a minor (and we're talking very minor here, like "getting competent writers and editors would dwarf this" minor) sales boost from this, so as long as it's deemed worth the effort the shotgun blast to the foot will be done again and again as long as the insurance lets it heal slightly better off then it was before, even if the scars won't go away any time soon.

Marvel Comics seems quite odd in their sales tactics. They're using the HBO method of few ads and using critical acclaim to be free advertisement for them, but HBO makes it work with consistent quality that ranges from good to some of the best work on television, while Marvel has the best of its comics from the past few years be what one could call "inoffensively average" (now that's not exactly true, some things like Daredevil's current run are actually pretty decent, but overall their quality is so low that the only thing shocking about their comparatively low sales numbers is that they aren't lower).

Marvel Comics is dead at this point, a relic of a bygone age that has been taken over by those who don't even hold respect for the medium they work in. In an executive that isn't unusual, but in an artist that's the creative death of a company. Unless it undergoes a purge and renaissance this is going to keep happening until the whole division goes in the red and can't manage to bounce back.

Marvel Comics has almost twice the market share of DC comics. It has, by far, the largest market share amongst comic publishers. And, as a whole, it's growing.

Meanwhile, DC has Batman. But it's okay, they're rolling everything back to pre-flashpoint, because that's not as desperate as announcing a new legacy hero.
EDIT:

Sheesh, why all the hate for legacy characters?

Because Marvel's universe is in a temporal stasis in terms of time progression, and so seeing the characters undergo such sudden and dramatic change is the type of thing people tend to want good writers and good artists to be responsible for, both of which Marvel Comics is is critically low supply of.

This comic won't last a year and a half.

Except characters aren't? It's a new character, just like Wally West isn't Barry Allen who isn't Jay Garrick.

EDITEDIT: "Temporal Stasis", sheesh. DC is literally going back in time to revert the New 52.

 

[Zontar]

I don't know there is still a crap ton of critically acclaimed Marvel works in the few past years
Billy the worst Xman
Vision
Moon Knight
The Punisher
Luke Cage and Iron fist
Rocket Raccon and Groot
Agent Venom
Carnage
and others
Is there some SJWness here and there sure but Marvel still brings in decent comics.

Marvel has 72 currently active comic series right now (not including limited series). Of them 22 started in the past 6 months, and the other 50 in the 12 months before that. There is currently nothing from December 2014 or earlier that is active, which means no one has managed an ongoing comic that could last more then 18 issues before being folded into something else, rebranded or remade.

 

[Zontar]

Marvel Comics has almost twice the market share of DC comics.

While 38% market share compared to 26% is impressive, it's far from double, and when compared to the number of comic books being published vs the share of the market Image wins hands down in the comic to share ratio even with only 10%.

It has, by far, the largest market share amongst comic publishers. And, as a whole, it's growing.

Marvel has a growing share of a shrinking pond, with the number one driving force behind its increased share of the market stemming from everyone else (save Image) having their sales figures drop. Marvel also faces the same issue, though stuns like these have slowed things down due to upturns that last for about 2-3 months before things get back to where they where before.

Except characters aren't? It's a new character, just like Wally West isn't Barry Allen who isn't Jay Garrick.

EDITEDIT: "Temporal Stasis", sheesh. DC is literally going back in time to revert the New 52.

Except Marvel's characters have long stopped ageing, and their introduction has universally become "15 years ago". Pandering changes rarely have a logical reason in-universe anymore (perfect example being She Thor, which had no in or our of universe explanation that flowed logically).

 

[Sonmi]

Eh, I'm not sure I'd agree, the vast majority of comic book characters have enough flaws not to fit into the definition of a Sue/Stu.

Literally all we know about this new character is that shes a smart young black woman. If he can label her a mary sue based on that, you can just as easily apply the label wholesale.

Have a look at my post, I don't disagree with that. We don't know if she has flaws or not yet, and thus it'd be hasty to put that label on her.

I do disagree with your assumption that 7/10 of all comic characters are "idealized and seemingly perfect fictional characters, young or low-rank people who save the day through unrealistic abilities" though, most characters have defined flaws that completely go against the "seemingly perfect" part of your definition.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Marvel Comics has almost twice the market share of DC comics.

While 38% market share compared to 26% is impressive, it's far from double, and when compared to the number of comic books being published vs the share of the market Image wins hands down in the comic to share ratio even with only 10%.

It has, by far, the largest market share amongst comic publishers. And, as a whole, it's growing.

Marvel has a growing share of a shrinking pond, with the number one driving force behind its increased share of the market stemming from everyone else (save Image) having their sales figures drop. Marvel also faces the same issue, though stuns like these have slowed things down due to upturns that last for about 2-3 months before things get back to where they where before.

Jesus Christ, Zontar, would it kill you to use up to date statistics?

In May, Marvel had a 39.64% retail market share compared to DC's 26.45%. (Retail market share is dollar amount sold)
Marvel's unit market share was 44.8% compared to DC's 26.34%. (Unit market share is raw units sold)

And that's just physical media, digital media is another wrinkle altogether, though getting accurate stats on that is almost impossible. Still, looking at Comixology's best sellers tab shows a predominance of Marvel titles.

It could just be that the shrinking physical comics media is simply converting to a digital format, like VHS, DVD, and the like before.

 

[shrekfan246]

EDITEDIT: "Temporal Stasis", sheesh. DC is literally going back in time to revert the New 52.

Technically speaking, at least of what I've read so far, they're just wrapping bits of the pre-Flashpoint universe back into the New 52 universe.

Because that doesn't make things hilariously convoluted or anything.

 

[Zontar]

Jesus Christ, Zontar, would it kill you to use up to date statistics?

Oh boy, those numbers are... pretty much the exact same as the ones I used, maybe off by 1 or 2%.

It could just be that the shrinking physical comics media is simply converting to a digital format, like VHS, DVD, and the like before.

It could be, but assuming that would be making quite a large assumption. Digital comics aren't exactly all the rage with those who read them, the medium is one where if you ask any buyer you're much, much more likely then not to get someone who almost exclusively buys physical copies. Most people don't seem to be aware digital comics distribution even exists, and those that do from what I've seen are comic book fans who want to have a physical copy.

Until the numbers start being released we will never know how much of the industry is digital, only that the whole industry is worth less then your typical Marvel blockbuster's gross.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Huh...I almost panicked for a second there. The term "Iron woman" made me think of Thatcher's nickname "Iron lady," which in turn divided into two thought directions. The first being of Thatcher in an iron suit playing a twisted villain, the second being that maybe Theresa May did win the leadership vote and has been coined "Iron woman" as a homage to the former old bat. She can have an iron suit too. It'll be hilarious, trust me. Until the genocide starts.

Am quite relieved it's just a fiesty new Marvel character. *Phew!* Now i'll just take my leave before getting splashed in the eyes by steaming pools of boiling tinterweb piss.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

EDITEDIT: "Temporal Stasis", sheesh. DC is literally going back in time to revert the New 52.

Technically speaking, at least of what I've read so far, they're just wrapping bits of the pre-Flashpoint universe back into the New 52 universe.

Because that doesn't make things hilariously convoluted or anything.

You know, DC always manages to exceed my expectations.

Jesus Christ, Zontar, would it kill you to use up to date statistics?

Oh boy, those numbers are... pretty much the exact same as the ones I used, maybe off by 1 or 2%.

Or 6%, if you're counting number of copies sold, but who's counting?

It could just be that the shrinking physical comics media is simply converting to a digital format, like VHS, DVD, and the like before.

It could be, but assuming that would be making quite a large assumption. Digital comics aren't exactly all the rage with those who read them, the medium is one where if you ask any buyer you're much, much more likely then not to get someone who almost exclusively buys physical copies. Most people don't seem to be aware digital comics distribution even exists, and those that do from what I've seen are comic book fans who want to have a physical copy.

Fun thing about numbers: if the overall size of the market is shrinking, but your market share keeps rising, that means your numbers aren't falling as fast as your competitors, if at all. That's generally a good thing. If Marvel's continuing usage of non-white, non-male legacy heroes were a cause of the entire market shrinking, their market share would be plummeting. And it isn't.

Until the numbers start being released we will never know how much of the industry is digital, only that the whole industry is worth less then your typical Marvel blockbuster's gross.

Your typical Marvel blockbuster's gross is a billion dollars. And until numbers start being released, how do we know digital sales aren't worth that much in total? Do you actually intend on providing any kind of source or are you just taking "Marvel is dead in the water" on faith and feels?

 

[Something Amyss]

Yah... the hair seems to stretch the suspension of disbelief, doesn't it? Which is saying something, considering this is a damn comic book.

It won't be the first time we see something like that.

My first thought at reading the thread title was 'Are they gonna give the iron suit boobs?' We know how much geek fiction just loves its breast plates.

Looking at Rescue (multiple versions), probably. I also think there would be much outrage if they didn't. Even though she's like, fifteen.

Sheesh, why all the hate for legacy characters? Barry Allen was awesome, Wally West was awesome, Tim Drake and Stephonie Brown were awesome, pick a Green Lantern and they were awesome, etc, etc, etc.

Only certain legacy characters. Not that I can see any sort of connection for the outrage. >.>

<..>

I mean, shit, like, imagine what would happen if Spider-Man became Spider-Woman? The mind shudders to even think! Or if Heimdall was black! Inconceivable! And don't even get me started on the idea of a woman being able to wield Mjolnir. HAH! As if!

Well, I mean, it'd be okay if a woman could LIFT Thor's hammer, but if she were to actually be able to have access to Thor's powers and titles, that would be a problem. Why, I'd have to selectively forget the time this happened to a dude in canon continuity so that I could be pretend outraged by the fact that it can't happen, I'd be so stunned.

Fortunately, that would never happen.

 

[Zontar]

Fun thing about numbers: if the overall size of the market is shrinking, but your market share keeps rising, that means your numbers aren't falling as fast as your competitors, if at all. That's generally a good thing.

It's not as bad of a thing, let's not pretend it's a good thing to see revenue and sales go down.

If Marvel's continuing usage of non-white, non-male legacy heroes were a cause of the entire market shrinking, their market share would be plummeting. And it isn't.

It's not the act of having non-white, non-male legacy heroes that's the cause of the downturn, it's the lack of having good writing and an inability to retain readers who look into these gimmicks while driving away readers using these gimmicks.

r typical Marvel blockbuster's gross is a billion dollars. And until numbers start being released, how do we know digital sales aren't worth that much in total? Do you actually intend on providing any kind of source or are you just taking "Marvel is dead in the water" on faith and feels?

Given how Marvel Comics has reported between 200 and 250 million USD in revenue for the past few years, I have my doubts that the digital side of the comic book industry is worth a billion dollars. In fact it seems the number's don't put the entire industry at a billion dollar one if their revenue claims are correct.