Scott Cawthon (FNaF guy) cancelled

[Dwarvenhobble]

Ah, so you are pretending that calling something racist is the same as tearing society down.

Got it.

Just going to point out that I asked if shitting on the Mona Lisa rant was popular.... You didn't answer the question. You just went on a tangent

So, to take this assumption, is the idea that anyone who has thought anything is racist is clearly tearing down society. Thus making it popular

The Fallists literally argue Science is racist because it won't accept African bush magic lightening summoning as real and say therefore Science itself needs to be started again from scratch from an African perspective........

You wanted examples of people being like that. It's popular enough that one Science faculty stupidly figured they'd hold a discussion with the group to try and learn what to do to change Science and that's what the groups spokespeople chose to claim.

I mean you could also look at how many autonomous Zones keep being set up or attempted to be set up to see some people don't want those social structures of government well governance operating on them........at least until they then do want it again as the Zone starts to run into problems.

Citation needed that this is at all a popular opinion

Is it a popular opinion? If that's the question then popular on what metric?
Popular enough to be easily observable?
Popular enough to win a multiparty election?
Popular enough to win by a majority?
Popular enough to win by a super majority?

I've showed it's at least easily observable.

 

[Trunkage]

The Fallists literally argue Science is racist because it won't accept African bush magic lightening summoning as real and say therefore Science itself needs to be started again from scratch from an African perspective........

You wanted examples of people being like that. It's popular enough that one Science faculty stupidly figured they'd hold a discussion with the group to try and learn what to do to change Science and that's what the groups spokespeople chose to claim.

I mean you could also look at how many autonomous Zones keep being set up or attempted to be set up to see some people don't want those social structures of government well governance operating on them........at least until they then do want it again as the Zone starts to run into problems.


Is it a popular opinion? If that's the question then popular on what metric?
Popular enough to be easily observable?
Popular enough to win a multiparty election?
Popular enough to win by a majority?
Popular enough to win by a super majority?

I've showed it's at least easily observable.

So it’s easily observable.

What’s it got to do with thinking some people movie is ‘racist’? Or shitting on the Mona Lisa? Their asking for their bush magic to be studied. Sounds like a good way to prove it wrong but that what the Answers in Genesis crowd do, so what can I say about people believing in sky gods

Also, this has got nothing to do with ‘tearing down society’. In your example here, the Fallists are whinging about something…. That may change science a bit at most. It wouldn’t effect much even if science acquiesced

Lastly, it seems what you are doing here is saying someone is using the term racist in an incorrect way and then making it seem like anyone who uses the term is also incorrect.

 

[Kwak]

You know I'm going to offer a suggestion for the whole rise of cancel culture thing.
...

Right wing alternative media gleefully shaking their heads at any progressive minority making any noise is really the only true cause of 'cancel culture'.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

So it’s easily observable.

What’s it got to do with thinking some people movie is ‘racist’? Or shitting on the Mona Lisa?

They're therefore symbols of problematic times or something like that.
It then becomes a symbol of that problematic time and the problems with it so destroying it or damaging said problematic elements to some people.
The idea is the system is built from those times so the only way to fix society in some peoples views it to tear it all down thus then they can rebuild society without the problems from the ashes of the old.
It makes kinda little sense really but that's the logic. Reset society as a whole which means removing things seen as sacred or help up by it.

Their asking for their bush magic to be studied. Sounds like a good way to prove it wrong but that what the Answers in Genesis crowd do, so what can I say about people believing in sky gods

No, no. Not studied. Accepted as truth. That was presented as an example of how Science is apparently colonialist because it doesn't accept it as real. Science has looked into this kind of stuff again and again.


There's been Indian mystic powers debunked a lot too. The levitation, holding flaming pots without being burned and psychic surgery specifically.
Summoning lightening using a magic stick? As you hear in the video some-one claims it's not true (because of absence of any proof) then the Fallist lady goes on about how they need knowledge produced by her, some-one who believes that as truth and as knowledge.

Also, this has got nothing to do with ‘tearing down society’. In your example here, the Fallists are whinging about something…. That may change science a bit at most. It wouldn’t effect much even if science acquiesced

Lastly, it seems what you are doing here is saying someone is using the term racist in an incorrect way and then making it seem like anyone who uses the term is also incorrect.

Except the Fallists demands are to make Science from their perspective and to do that they believe Science would have to be restarted from scratch with them or people they approve of making the knowledge. If Science as a whole gave in to the Fallist movement there would be no Science as we know it. It would just become something like "Indigenous 'Science' " which no-one wants except people who think they can get a position of control or people who are kinda cranks who want their mystical beliefs to be declared as real.

I'm also not saying all the people calling something racist are doing it for this reason. Remember the specific context here was people getting some level of influence then working to tear down what came before on the claim it's problematic and they're fixing it. The Fallists were given a chance to talk and with that little bit of infleunce of people actually showing up to listen to talk with them they then chose to push to restart Science from scratch. That little bit of influence was being leveraged there.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Right wing alternative media gleefully shaking their heads at any progressive minority making any noise is really the only true cause of 'cancel culture'.

You mean like with Candace Owens........... oh wait isn't she a conservative talking head these days.................

 

[Buyetyen]

When did I say people shouldn't give any shits about anything? That wasn't my point. I care enough about things that I don't vote for either party, I wish most people cared as much as I do about things. I'm not gonna "cancel" 150 million Americans because of it though. Explain to me how the gap in wealth improves during democrat control vs republican control. During covid, that wealth gap was less in republican states, just saying.

Like I said right above, it's not that you shouldn't care about XYZ, it's that you shouldn't get mad at someone else for not caring about XYZ (especially when it's not some important macro-level issue)

Not voting doesn't make you special. More than half this country is eligible to vote and doesn't. You're not making some kind of statement or principled stance.

To your latter point, how do you propose enforcing on me what I am and am not allowed to think of someone's actions? Because you can play the both sides game all you want, I'm still not buying any FNaF merch.

 

[tstorm823]

It's rare that your average Joe considers anything that doesn't affect them. People line up around the block of Chik-Fil-A because even if they hate Jews and homos, their chicken is fucking bomb apparently. I don't eat fast food so I dunno, I had a waffle fry once and thought it sucked so i dunno what they put in their Kool-Aid that people think Chik--Fil-A is any good.

The chicken is good enough for the price point. The exceptional thing is the service. Like, most fast food places if you eat in you stand for a few minutes waiting for your food before you can sit down. Chick-fil-a is fully prepared to serve you at a table after you've sat down, but also typically has it ready so fast that you didn't even have the chance to walk that far. It's a fast food restaurant where despite not being specifically waited on, workers will come to your table and offer drink refills. I've seen drive-through lines that wrap around the block, but move so fast that nobody waits more than a few minutes to get through. Chick-fil-a is great because they bring in 15 people to do what McDonalds would try to do with 5, and the experience is so much better they get several times the customers at once.

 

[CriticalGaming]

(FFS, what even IS forced diversity?)

IMO, it is forced when the character's defining quality is their marginalization. When something a character is doing is impressive because they're female, or LBGT, or PoC. This is what the CW's Batwoman show did a lot of.

Battlefield V is a not a super great example, because that was just war shitheads getting mad at nothing. But the marketing behind BF5 was really based on "Look their are girls now" which also was stupid. Which i think was the core of the problem that people had with it, and in typical internet fashion people took it too far.

The new Star Wars trilogy was just bad. It rehashed a lot of old story beats from the original movies, while also making the main character a perfect woman who couldn't be flawed in anyway, she had to be better than everyone at everything. There are a lot of examples of this, from her insane power over the force with no training, to being able to embarrassingly fix the Falcon in front of Han without even trying. "haha I just fixed it because I'm just soooooo great at everything." Kind of stuff. I get why people didn't like Rey.

But here is the thing. People aren't against strong female characters. What people are against are bad characters. And on top of that they don't want to be shamed for not liking a character. We've seen this cycle on repeat a lot over the last few years. Major female led movie is made, it sucks and people don't go see it, creators blame audience for being sexist.

It's NOT SEXISM, your movie is just SHIT. There is a difference.

If the audience was sexist why are the original Alien films so beloved? Terminator 2? Badass heroines that were not sexualized for the "male gaze" have been popular for a long time, and they would still be popular if Hollywood would actually put some fucking effort into writing good characters again.

But you see the vocal minority online is why this is happening. The people who blindly demand more "representation" in media, do so because it appears to be working and that feeling of power drives them. And when you point out all the representation that has happened throughout the last 30 years, they ignore it. Because even having one cis-white-dude is a problem. They want more 100% PoC made products, or LBGT made products without any regards to qualifications of how that product should be. So what you end up with is all-female Ghostbuster films expecting success because it's all female when no effort was actually given to making a good movie first.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

2: Most of the activity comes from late Millennials and Gen Z. These are people who grew up with the Internet, which, ipso facto, made it easier to find like-minded people, and to filter out opinions they disagree with. Furthermore, intellectual diverisity at universities has plummeted since the 1960s. I can't remember the exact figures, but when people say the universities are liberal/left-wing...well, they are. This isn't some Republican talking point, this is statistically true. It's arguably always been true, but the result means that students going to uni in the 2000s and 2010s would be exposed to fewer ideas than they might have been in the past.

3: Culture of safetyism. Again, this is based on what I've read (again, see Coddling of the American Mind), but something shifted in the 90s - fear of crime went up, as rate of crime went down. You raise a group of people in fear of danger, and they're going to start seeing danger everywhere.

Metal Gear Solid 2 predicted #2

Covid highlights #3; people did X, Y, and Z everyday prior to the pandemic but doing A, B, and C that are say 10x less dangerous are now too dangerous, it's pretty ridiculous.

Good for you. I don't care about your opinion on Scott Cawthon's character, I'm still not gonna buy his games. Does some games money I spend probably filter up to anti-LGBT politicians eventually? Yeah, probably. But not through that channel.
In your kind of argument, does it matter if I don't buy the game because I'm not particularly interested in it or if I don't buy the game because of Scott's personal politics? Either way, I'm not buying the game. And if not buying something is "cancel culture", then I've damn near cancel cultured every game.

Not buying something you think you'll enjoy for some unfunded claim or overreaction is "good" somehow? You'll lose out on personal enjoyment of something and possibly cause less of what you enjoy to be made in the future (if it affects sales enough). I have no clue if Scott is being cancelled (just going by the opening post in this thread) and I really personally couldn't care less because I don't give 2 shits about FNAF. Based on Jim Sterlings video that I watched, looks like some people (at least Jim) are trying to cancel him though based on absolutely nothing, which is complete bullshit.

Not voting doesn't make you special. More than half this country is eligible to vote and doesn't. You're not making some kind of statement or principled stance.

To your latter point, how do you propose enforcing on me what I am and am not allowed to think of someone's actions? Because you can play the both sides game all you want, I'm still not buying any FNaF merch.

When did I say I didn't vote? I said I don't vote for either democrats or republicans, not that I didn't vote.

I never said that you or anyone else shouldn't be allowed to not buy whatever you don't want to buy. You can not buy something because you don't like a guy's haircut for all I care. But to go out and virtue signal to other people that this guy is evil (just for doing something rather normal and no proof of said evilness) is bullshit.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Not buying something you think you'll enjoy for some unfunded claim or overreaction is "good" somehow? You'll lose out on personal enjoyment of something and possibly cause less of what you enjoy to be made in the future (if it affects sales enough).

It's not an unfounded claim, it's a plain text fact not refuted by anybody: Scott Cawthon donated the maximum allowable amount of personal money to politicians some people find particularly detestable. Some people find that fact slightly more important than their personal enjoyment of a specific product. That there might be less of that specific product in the future if nothing in changed is the point of a boycott. In the meantime, these people will simply have to play any of the other hundreds of indie horror games readily available on any platform.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

But you see the vocal minority online is why this is happening. The people who blindly demand more "representation" in media, do so because it appears to be working and that feeling of power drives them. And when you point out all the representation that has happened throughout the last 30 years, they ignore it. Because even having one cis-white-dude is a problem. They want more 100% PoC made products, or LBGT made products without any regards to qualifications of how that product should be. So what you end up with is all-female Ghostbuster films expecting success because it's all female when no effort was actually given to making a good movie first.

Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean they didn't put effort into it.

 

[BrawlMan]

IMO, it is forced when the character's defining quality is their marginalization. When something a character is doing is impressive because they're female, or LBGT, or PoC. This is what the CW's Batwoman show did a lot of.

Battlefield V is a not a super great example, because that was just war shitheads getting mad at nothing. But the marketing behind BF5 was really based on "Look their are girls now" which also was stupid. Which i think was the core of the problem that people had with it, and in typical internet fashion people took it too far.

The new Star Wars trilogy was just bad. It rehashed a lot of old story beats from the original movies, while also making the main character a perfect woman who couldn't be flawed in anyway, she had to be better than everyone at everything. There are a lot of examples of this, from her insane power over the force with no training, to being able to embarrassingly fix the Falcon in front of Han without even trying. "haha I just fixed it because I'm just soooooo great at everything." Kind of stuff. I get why people didn't like Rey.

But here is the thing. People aren't against strong female characters. What people are against are bad characters. And on top of that they don't want to be shamed for not liking a character. We've seen this cycle on repeat a lot over the last few years. Major female led movie is made, it sucks and people don't go see it, creators blame audience for being sexist.

It's NOT SEXISM, your movie is just SHIT. There is a difference.

If the audience was sexist why are the original Alien films so beloved? Terminator 2? Badass heroines that were not sexualized for the "male gaze" have been popular for a long time, and they would still be popular if Hollywood would actually put some fucking effort into writing good characters again.

But you see the vocal minority online is why this is happening. The people who blindly demand more "representation" in media, do so because it appears to be working and that feeling of power drives them. And when you point out all the representation that has happened throughout the last 30 years, they ignore it. Because even having one cis-white-dude is a problem. They want more 100% PoC made products, or LBGT made products without any regards to qualifications of how that product should be. So what you end up with is all-female Ghostbuster films expecting success because it's all female when no effort was actually given to making a good movie first.

Like cancel culture, forced diversity is just another boogeyman. Regardless if the product is a good or not, there are people out there that don't want to see my people, other races and genders, and religions not get any representation or to be only seen as "funny" Uncle Tom foolery, bad stereotypes, victims or things only be saved, or villains. Nothing positive. People like that exist inside and outside of all entertainment industries. Whenever we get any head way some one has to try tear us down out of unfounded fear or hatred, because they don't want to become the "minority" or "replaced".

These fuckers that complain about "forced" diversity be it in games, movies, or television:

Where the fuck where you when Streets of Rage was around?
Where the fuck where you when Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, etc?
Where the fuck where you when Parasite Eve was a thing?
Where the fuck where you when The Suffering games were out?

I know why, because during those times, you were a kid or teen too oblivious to care, and when you started noticing something, you learned to be an asshole about it. Either because you got it from racists/sexists parents, grand parents, relatives, piers, neighbors, Bill O Riley/Fox News, or some asshole on the web with nothing better to do with their lives!

There will always be corporation that pander or appeal to different demographics or not of their usual norm, but has always been the case and not a "new" phenomenon or problem. It bares repeating, regardless of high or low quality, there are racist/sexist assholes fans and certain audiences that do not want to see us exist in anything nor have strong focus. Because of they're insecure assholes afraid of someone being different from them.

I remember when certain "fans" complained their should be no "politics/dangerous politics" in Miles Morales, because of a small mention of the BLM movement towards the last side mission. Or how super hero games should have "no politics"! What a load of bullshit! Where the fuck were you when Arkham City release back in 2010? Where were you during all of the Infamous games? The last Spider-Man game had plenty of politics, but no one complaining there! Miles has plenty of politics, racial and economical. Y'all just don't want to listen or think, and would rather stay in your self satisfying escapism. Claiming to be a free thinker when you're just another mindless drone that can't think for themselves.

Insomniac was showing their support and they did nothing wrong for standing for a cause. At least they stand for something and not this whole: we're anti/apolitical vomit EA, Ubisoft, and Acti-Blizz pour out of all their orifices every year. Thankfully, most actual fans of the Miles called out the other "fans" crap argument.

Need I remind you again how these same assholes claim black people never fought in WWI or WWII, or try to constantly downplay their achievements and individual accomplishments? Most of these assholes don't care about quality that much. All of these games could be utter crap and most of them would not raise a fuss, if all the characters are straight white dudes. Throw in multiple people or more than 3 non-white/female characters and everyone loses their minds, because it's not "part of the plan"! Upset the established "order" and everything becomes "chaos".

 

[BrawlMan]

Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean they didn't put effort into it.

Thank you. Critical has this problem of having a narrow minded view or seeing things in only one direction. These products do have quality regardless of your opinions.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Thank you. Critical has this problem of having a narrow minded view or seeing things in only one direction. These products do have quality regardless of your opinions.

Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean they didn't put effort into it.

Except that they are commercial failures. It's not that "I" didn't like them, it's that the masses at large didn't like them. And if you can't see that then you are missing my point completely. I never once said anything about me personally hating these things, I'm compiling feedback I've seen from reviews and opinions all over the place.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Like cancel culture, forced diversity is just another boogeyman

We can say the same thing about the lack of diversity as well.

You yourself in this post list tons of things featuring PoC's and women at large. And having great diverse characters has never really been that big of a problem since 1980 and beyond imo. While at the same time saying all PoC driven media is something that people don't want to see, doesn't explain the success and boom of Rap, R&B, and Hip Hop which is majorly driven by PoC artists or the popularity of films like Friday and Black Panther.

When the media is good, the color and creed of the people therein no longer matters because good entertainment will be diverse by the sheer nature of it. Bad entertainment happens when it is only created to push an agenda.

Where the fuck where you when Streets of Rage was around? I was seven or eight playing it on my sega genesis.
Where the fuck where you when Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, etc? 13 or 14 tekken was my first game on ps1. much younger for SF, infact i remember my copy of SF2 for SNES was fucked up because all the backgrounds would be distorted and shit. It played fine, but i remember having corrupted backdrops for fights.
Where the fuck where you when Parasite Eve was a thing? I loved Parasite Eve, and I still have it installed on my Vita to this day.
Where the fuck where you when The Suffering games were out? Never heard of these though, sorry.

There will always be corporation that pander or appeal to different demographics or not of their usual norm,

By the way, the pride logos are gone from Twitter as they no longer care about the gays in July.

I remember when certain "fans" complained their should be no "politics/dangerous politics" in Miles Morales, because of a small mention of the BLM movement towards the last side mission. Or how super hero games should have "no politics"! What a load of bullshit! Where the fuck were you when Arkham City release back in 2010? Where were you during all of the Infamous games? The last Spider-Man game had plenty of politics, but no one complaining there! Miles has plenty of politics, racial and economical. Y'all just don't want to listen or think, and would rather stay in your self satisfying escapism. Claiming to be a free thinker when you're just another mindless drone that can't think for themselves.

Yeah superheroes are weird because people don't usually connect the dots very well.

Though I suppose there is an argument for the difference between including political statements up front and center. Like Spider-Man directly talking about a real-life movement in BLM. Versus having those political themes and stories wrapped up purely in the fictional sense. X-Men has always been about "racism bad" but they conveyed that message entirely within the wrap of the fictional mutants v. humans. The message was still the same, but the flavor was easier to handle. At least this was through the 00's, I have no idea wtf they're doing now.

Insomniac was showing their support and they did nothing wrong for standing for a cause. At least they stand for something and not this whole: we're anti/apolitical vomit EA, Ubisoft, and Acti-Blizz pour out of all their orifices every year. Thankfully, most actual fans of the Miles called out the other "fans" crap argument.

Yeah IMO it was fine. TBH I didn't even remember seeing that stuff in Miles. I remember the pride flags and such though, and none of that bothered or even stood out all the much. More like nods to showcase support as you said.

Throw in multiple people or more than 3 non-white/female characters and everyone loses their minds, because it's not "part of the plan"! Upset the established "order" and everything becomes "chaos".

I'm here to kill Chaos!

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Except that they are commercial failures. It's not that "I" didn't like them, it's that the masses at large didn't like them. And if you can't see that then you are missing my point completely. I never once said anything about me personally hating these things, I'm compiling feedback I've seen from reviews and opinions all over the place.

They were only a commercial failure because the studio put action movie blockbuster money into a ensemble comedy movie. A $370m box office would've been fine if the studio didn't botch the money.

 

[BrawlMan]

Except that they are commercial failures. It's not that "I" didn't like them, it's that the masses at large didn't like them. And if you can't see that then you are missing my point completely. I never once said anything about me personally hating these things, I'm compiling feedback I've seen from reviews and opinions all over the place.

That still doesn't change the fact that regardless of quality, there are people that don't want to see women or minorities portrayed positivity or have greater focus. I do love how you ignore my entire post, before my responding to @TheMysteriousGX.

And you still have a habit of making pathetic excuses for peoples sexism/racism. Claiming, no they only hate these games or characters because X reason or they're too stupid to truly know why. You can be dumbest or smartest person in the world and still be racist or sexist. Some of them possibly, but most were hating on Abby (other than killing Joel), because she's a muscular woman in a zombie apocalypse, despite not complaining about roided out dudes in every apocalyptic fiction ever. Hell, there were fans and haters hating on Ellie, because ND "forced" her to become lesbian or forcing politics even though the first game dropped a couple of hints that she was not straight. I may not like TLOUS games and dislike ND, but I do not hate them for that.

Oh, and another reminder, just because Sonic Fox has wide acceptance and face in the fighting game community, does not mean it ended all of the racism, sexism, or anti-gay the tournament crowd. There is far less now compared to 10 years ago, but it still has it share of assholes. Thankfully, they're now being called out on it more often, and their dirty secrets are being revealed, but more still needs to be done. Positive representation should never be stopped at one person and call it day, or claim that the battle is over. Or that we should all "shut up and be grateful". No, we should never forced to silence nor complacency. We won't allow it and keep fighting the good fight,

 

[CriticalGaming]

They were only a commercial failure because the studio put action movie blockbuster money into a ensemble comedy movie. A $370m box office would've been fine if the studio didn't botch the money.

Explain Charlie's Angels' latest reboot then. It's not just a issue with Ghostbusters. Explain Batwoman which has nothing near that kind of budget. It's a repeating pattern. Terminator Dark FATE! Actually nevermind I really enjoyed Dark Fate.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Snip

Dude I'm not arguing that sexism and racism don't still exist. But I don't think they exist on such a grand scale that it would cause media products to bomb. If a few fuckheads dont sit and watch Batwoman, it isn't going to destroy the ratings that much.

The answer to a product failed can't always be "Because black's, or because woman."

Does that shit exist? Sure. But it can't always be the excuse.

 

[Buyetyen]

But to go out and virtue signal to other people that this guy is evil (just for doing something rather normal and no proof of said evilness) is bullshit.

So don't ever tell anyone our reasons because vocally disagreeing with somebody is "virtue signalling" somehow. Give me a fucking break.

Look, I get that isn't a big deal to you because you're not directly affected. But try to wrap your head around the fact that to other people, the whole anti-LGBTQ thing really fucking matters.

Except that they are commercial failures.

So the exclusive mark of quality is how many units of product you move? Also, which alleged failures are we talking about here? Because you deal a lot in vagaries and have made clear that you don't exactly have your finger on the pulse of the entertainment industry.

I never once said anything about me personally hating these things, I'm compiling feedback I've seen from reviews and opinions all over the place.

1. You complain enough that it's hard not to assume it's personal.
2. The plural of anecdote is not data. Show me real sales figures as compared to the budget and then we'll talk. If you want to make commercial success your metric, you kind of need to take this into account.