Sexism against men

[Infernostrider]

i've been saying this for a few years now; emancipation seems to be about the downfall of the average, adult white male.

it sounds ridiculous, doesnt it? the adult white male is and always has been in the greatest position of power. and emancipation is about dragging other people up so we are all equals.

and however great as that message is, i have found the result doesnt live up to the ideal.

Wether you are a woman, a colored person, or worse, both, you will have learned to endure the bad taste of being discriminated in the west (i'm horrible at metaphores). For the white woman, it's not as bad as it was 20 years ago. You can vote, you can tell your husband to go screw himself without being beaten back into the kitchen. Yet you are still, in all likelyhood, making less money than the guy sitting next to you at work doing the exact same thing....and has been doing so for less time than you as well! And lets not forget, being skipped over for promotions because you MIGHT want kids some day? As for the colored person; well asians tend to make their own businesses, and honestly i dont know much here...neither will i claim to have much factual knowledge about black people. I can, however, tell you that a lot of the job offers you replied to you got turned down because of you having a foreign sounding name, or, failing that, just from having seen you in an actual interview.

A lot of this is subconscious. A lot of it isn't.

Fact remains: its not just about sexism. it's about discrimination in general. You do it, i do it, everybody does it. And now we're finally working hard to stop doing that, to give everyone who isnt an average, adult white male an honest, equal chance....

We are getting it flung right back at us, into our faces. These people are, often times, abusing the shit out of the emancipation thing. We, the adult white males of the present, are facing similar levels of dicrimination from all other groups as was once the case of us doing to the. Or, to be exact; of our ancestors doing to theirs.

Now, i'm not one to carry grudges to the grandson of the dude who kicked my grandfather in the gnads, so all of that seems a bit silly to me....but thats not that big a deal here. That the discrimination is going on in the first place, however, is. We were wrong. We know this. We are working to better ourselves.

We need to be equals. I don't care wether you're male or female, fat or thin, black or white, smart or dumb....All men were not created equal, but we can make OURSELVES equal. Do not look down on your fellow human. do not look up at him either.

this post feels kind of incomplete >< so..if anyone would care to pick up?

NOTE: sorry for the wall of text, and for maybe hijacking the thread....equality is a sensitive subject for me, mainly because, as i said, it's going the opposite way ><

 

[Zeema]

This is ridiculious. Women are still oppressed and men are still the oppresors.

Yes buts that not always the Case men can also be Sexually oppressed by Women as well it goes both ways. also going and saying that the OP is the and im quoting you here 'sex-driven, sexist, evil, rape supporting MEN'. just says that you do not Pay attention to the start of the thread.

Your ignorant and incorrect.

 

[Loner Jo Jo]

Or maybe it's the fact that, at least when it comes to reported cases, women are still far more likely to be abused by a man than the reverse? Just saying, it's a big problem in our society. I understand your point though. A friend of mine was point blank told that she would fail at computer science because she was a woman. By her professor. Ridiculous.

OP, when it comes to the media, I say ignore all of it. Very rarely are people played realistically, as a human being with flaws and virtues, especially in commercials. I remember that sneaker commercial, and I remember thinking that it was rather offensive. But hey, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Often times, people will be boiled down to trite formulas that are easy for consumers to digest. For every instance of a stereotyped or exploits man in the media, I can promise you there is an equal amount of women.

Considering that there are still far more serious cases of sexism out there, we focus on those first because if we correct those problems, everything else will eventually fall into line. Women still are paid less than men on average. Crime against women is still way too high. The only instance I can think of where white middle class men are actively discriminated against is affirmative actions cases, which is far less likely to occur today than it was in the 70's or 80's. And just to cover my tracks, yes gender based crime does occur against men as well, such as rape or abuse. However, most men won't report when a crime like this happens to them because of fear that they will look weak. This is a serious problem and should be rectified.

Frankly, the rub is this, the cases of discrimination against men are blatant outgrowths of sexist attitudes toward women. Why is it that abuse against men by women is much more common then the reverse (source: http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm) but the societal image is that abuse by men against women is more common? Because of the societal attitude that women are weaker and subservient, so men feel too emasculated to report it. This subservient ideal is the same reason why men are expected to pay, but also why women get paid less in jobs and many other societal factors. Similarly, the idea that women are the nurturing sort are why women get an advantage in custody proceedings. Certainly people have brought up issues with holding doors and the like, but that's just a minor issue, the meat is in things like divorce proceedings and those truly show society's bigoted attitude.


In the long term fight for feminism, "female privilege" is just as much a stumbling block because it reinforces attitudes that are counter to feminist ideals.

According to the Department of Health and Human Services, no. (http://www.womenshealth.gov/publications/federal-reports/OneDepartment-VAW-2009-2010.pdf pg 3) One in every four women suffers from abuse and one in every thirteen men is in the same position. Mind you, these are probably just reported cases. However, according to a series of studies done in Canada, one in eight men are abused. (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/publications/mlintima-eng.php) These are not based upon criminal reports but surveys, so more men might be more willing to admit to these goings on if there is no chance of legal recourse to "complicate" matters.

Still, I would argue that men are more likely to suffer from "minor" abuse. Minor is any physical action that is not intended to harm or cause injury. In Canada's survey, they counted both minor and severe, but did not distinguish between the two. I think there's a big difference. While neither is right, I would say that minor abuse is pretty common. I know most women will pop a man on the arm or something to that affect when she is displeased. I do it, and have done it in the past month. It does not result in any bruising or significant pain, but ethically and legally, it is still wrong. However, because of this idea of "breaking free" from the "subservient role," women feel like they can hit a man in this manner, but because he is a man, he should be able to take it. I would argue that majority of men probably suffer from this abuse, if you define it as such, and that there is a double standard here. Women can do this to men and not suffer consequences, but if a man pops a woman on the arm, then that is still just as wrong as severe abuse.

Despite this, I would argue women are more likely to suffer from severe abuse than men. The numbers might be evenly matched, but that fact of the matter is, women are still considered weaker, and often times, physically, they are. People who are in need of counseling or possibly more depending (and I don't mean this as an insult; I am being sincere) have control issues. As an educated guess, I would say that men abuse women physically or emotionally to boost their own self-esteem or to confirm their masculinity. Women would abuse men because she feels trapped or cornered so by abusing she takes the dominant role. (Not saying this is the man's fault. It is probably an extension of something from her past, not the present.)

Also, as a side note, I would argue that while connected, there is a gap between discrimination and abuse. Everyone discriminates, or really, is prejudiced. It may not be consistently and they may not even act on their thought patterns, but everyone has their biases. Here's the difference between sexism and racism, for example. To make assumptions about one race will not apply to all people. In fact, there is no scientific basis for race. However, there is a genetic basis for sex. While gender and sex are not the same thing, the fact of the matter is, women are biologically meant to be mothers. Because they have that role to fill, we as a society have set it up to aid them in this process, and because a women who is going to have children would need protection, men fill that role. (You can't deny that a pregnant women or a woman that has just had a child would need someone to take care of her. If you've ever interacted with a woman who is 8 or 9 months pregnant, you would clearly know why.)

The feminist movement helped society see that certain traits such as intelligence or strength do not make a woman a bad mother or any less of a woman. While we are still working on this ideal, we have made great strides and continue to. The problem is now the role of men. As women become more self-sufficient, the role of the provider is dying. Really, in my opinion, I think we need to now focus on how to make boys better fathers, not in the "bringing home the bacon" sense, but in the loving, caring, nurturing sense. When we as a society can accept that these traits don't make a man less of a man, we'll be better off. But that is a long way away in my opinion.

 

[Alandoril]

As genders we are not equal. As humans we are equal.

Men and women will never be truly equal unless gender is seen as nothing other than an aspect of reproduction rather than a defining personal characteristic.

And frankly the whole gender wars thing and feminism and such was a massive coup for corporations and governments. It allowed them to push society in a direction where for working class people running a household requires two incomes.

 

[poleboy]

Everyone is likely to experience discrimination at some point in their life. Making this a gender issue (as is often the case IMO) muddles the point, because it's something we can all become victims of.

 

[Hipster Chick]

When men can't vote, own property, get divorces, or refuse sex to their wives, then I'll say the pendulum has swung all the way in the other direction. Believe me, I'd be one of the first to try and stop it if it did in any meaningful capacity, but until then, well...I believe Commander Shepard did a pretty good job of explaining my opinion on the subject.

 

[kidwithxboxlive]

You basically can not win on this subject. What ever happens, it will turn the other way. E.G, Women were fighting for equality, now they are 'Fairly' (Use this term lightly) dominant. they will become more dominant, then it will switch roles, Men will become more dominant. Basically, its fighting a losing battle, You shall never win with this

 

[troyrich]

I agree there shouldn't be double standards and i've even caught out my english techer before with this very topic.

we were discussing Sexism in Language and there was only two guys in the class including myself, the rest were all girls. The teacher said "Well think about it if you two boys were talking about football mary might feel left out because she might not be interested in it" I looked up at her and said in a neutral tone "Miss i find that Sexist" She nodding adding that " yes that treu she might enjoy football" I shook my head and told her " no i think it's sexist that you assume i like football just because im a guy.. i really don't care about it at all" and she really seemed to find it hard that i didn't like the damn sport.

Hardly anything life altering.. but as already mentioned noone seems to care about looking at the other side of arguments.. and not just sexism ( though i wont go off topic for risk of starting a flame war ) People should realise it is a two way street.. wasn't that the point of equality?

 

[Crazycat690]

Yeah, society today IS sexist against men, I mean... If I have sex with a girl she can go and say I raped her and since she's a girl people will automatically believe her because it's impossible that a little princess like herself could be evil and lying. And then the best part, even if I get off the hook and declared not guilty, society will still label be a pervert and a rapist! So yeah I don't feel sorry for women anymore, I could easily be labeled a sexist for not thinking that all women are innocent no matter what.

It might just be me, but I think that is wrong.

 

[Robert Ewing]

Sexism against men has been socially excepted for thousands of years. We are always expected to have a good physique, be masculine, be hard workers, be able to solve any problem without breaking down emotionally, etc etc.

Here's why nobody cares about sexism against men. Because we fucking got over it. Men are treated as bad, if not worse than women. But nobody cares because everyone is so used to it. The only difference is, that women are 'officially' worse off than men in society. Bullshit.

Men and women are equal for the most part. I don't want to live in a world where calling somebody 'dear' can get you a massive 'sexist' sticker on your forehead. especially when you can say that to a man, and nobody even bats an eyelid.

I think everyone should just stop enforcing this equality thing, and just let it happen naturally...

 

[Crazycat690]

This is ridiculious. Women are still oppressed and men are still the oppresors.

In what way? I keep on being passed over for jobs because a woman applied too.

I'll give you one. Some guy on the front page mentioned that woman-on-man abuse or rape is drastically underreported, and when it is reported it's usually laughed out. That only sounds like it favors women because of context.

What that really says is that women are weak. Pathetic. Worthless. What kind of a man are you, they're asking, that even some fucking WOMAN can get the best of you? What happened to your pimp hand?

Oh I see so men get raped and not taken seriously. Women are portrayed as being weak. Men are so getting the better end of this deal.

Well it's also that when a man rapes a woman, he's a monster who deserves death, but if a woman rapes or abuses a man she's a female crusader, she empowers other women and is considered a hero. We've seen this to many times to be able to deny that.

 

[x EvilErmine x]

You know I'm probably going to get massively flamed for this but whatever.

What really misytifys me is when people say that women get paid less than men. I have never in my life been in a job where i got paid more than a woman because of my gender. What jobs do these women work!?
In the real world you get paid by for the hours you do, it's a flat rate (unless it's like time and a half or double pay or something for that day) and it's the same if you are a man, a woman, or a bloody chimp. I proper don't get it.

 

[Adam28]

Of course, women probably have it worse than men, but there is a lot of sexism against males too as well the 'demand' to be masculine.

Both have to be dealt with, you can't have a gender being equal to the other gender that doesn't have equality.

Edit: It can also be pretty un-masculine to complain about such things depending on what you see as unfair.

 

[chowderface]

This is ridiculious. Women are still oppressed and men are still the oppresors.

In what way? I keep on being passed over for jobs because a woman applied too.

I'll give you one. Some guy on the front page mentioned that woman-on-man abuse or rape is drastically underreported, and when it is reported it's usually laughed out. That only sounds like it favors women because of context.

What that really says is that women are weak. Pathetic. Worthless. What kind of a man are you, they're asking, that even some fucking WOMAN can get the best of you? What happened to your pimp hand?

Oh I see so men get raped and not taken seriously. Women are portrayed as being weak. Men are so getting the better end of this deal.

Not my point in the slightest. My point is that the guy who originally pointed that out said it as though women who abuse or rape men are somehow getting off because "the system" likes women better than men; like they're all a bunch of straw feminists who let their sister women off the hook because their victims deserved it. Really what's going on is that women aren't taken seriously, and while this means they're often not convicted of violent crimes against men, it's also the reason for just about everything that creates a double standard that favors men. In other words, it's part of the entire problem. It's one of the things that has to go away if we're going to make any progress on the issue of womens' rights.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

Women fought for equality for 50+ years. And yet a women still gets priority over a child in a devorce. Domestic abuse by women on men is nowhere near as publicised as domestic abuse of women by men. Also, as you say, when was the last time a newspaper published a story of a woman raping a man? Never.

I'm not saying men are a repressed minority or any of that nonsense, but..... yeah, the equality thing may have gone a little far in one direction instead of stopping where it should of.

Disclaimer: Yes, of course, without stats, I can't back any of that up. I'm not being sexist or anything, I'm just writing the truth of my opinion. But the very fact I feel I should put a disclaimer on this post speaks volumes really.

you're right on the money. and there's a good reason for it: if a woman stands up and yells 'he raped me!' then you're going to get half your fucking country in a lynch mob. if a guy says 'SHE raped ME!' and the newspapers will ignore it because 'Local man cant fight of woman.' doesnt sell as well.

 

[MetaKnight19]

Don't worry, you aren't the only one thinking about this sort of stuff. Apparently Finland are as well...


OK this video is highlighting sexual harassment in the workplace (probably), but the principle is basically the same.

 

[Cephei Mordred]

I've not read through this topic.

How much of it is bullshit of either the "Sexism against men is highly exaggerated in this misogynist society" or "It's okay or at least understandable for women to be sexist against men because of the past" or perhaps even the really annoying "Women portrayed as humorless killjoys on sitcoms is sexist against women too."

I mean, I'm one of those people who believe that both men and women are humans and thus should be judged by the same standards, regardless of silly technicalities like "gender" or "circumstance" or "history."

 

[CardinalPiggles]

Men being sexist is always a bigger thing because it usually involves brute force, which people respond to a lot more than, say, a women getting a man to do what she wants in exchange for sexual favours, because she knows most men cant resist.

I for one would like equality between both sexes, and do try to go into every situation with those intentions, but it's very hard when you work at a place where almost every women is literally just interested in earning extra money from tips, and couldn't give a rats arse about helping out anyone else. I know this to be true, it's all they talk about other than how badly they think the place is run.

In short: both sexes need to put in the effort for any balance to be worked out, but people are often too stubborn and self involved to care.

How can a women rape a man, they wouldn't be hard, and if they were it wouldn't be rape.

It's not just about rape, also it doesn't have to involve physically pinning someone down and having your way, it could involve threats or blackmail. Plus, men have a tendency to get an erection at any time.

 

[TonyVonTonyus]

Dammit, Sexisms towards men is MISANDRY!!! Anyways, I look at very righteous, men hating, women loving feminists...not the rational ones who actually want equality, not to wear the jackboots, the insane ones in the same way I look at asshats because if they're anything...

I go with "an asshat will never admit that his hat is made of ass no matter how much you tell him". A feminist will always say she wants equality even when she hates men and will never admit to hating men unless approached by someone else who hates men and then only to talk about how much she hates men.

Now, I'm not anti feminist, I'm anti hypocrite and anti heretic. People who believe what they believe can't be anything else but the truth no matter what evidence is brought to them and force it upon other people and hate those that don't agree and well. That is what if I may quote my self for a bit the "righteous, men hating, women loving feminists" do. Normal people and the more sane and rational feminists who can produce a thought greater and more in depth then "men suck, I hate men" tend to be more around the "equality for all genders" area. Though this is through my personal experiences of meeting people. I could be totally wrong...

 

[CardinalPiggles]

I don't get why women pull the "we've been oppressed for thousands of years" as an excuse for things when they weren't alive during those years and live in a society that has more equality than back then.

Plus they are being sexist to people that weren't in the past either, so really those women would be completely in the wrong.