Shadow Complex Prompts Difficult Questions

Thunderhorse31

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Dudeakoff said:
Another issue that does more damage to the gay community then good. Not buying someone's work just because he disagrees with you on a single issue, which never shows in their work, is petty. This is fuel for the bigoted view that gays want to suppress freedom of speech.
This. Pick your battles people. If you want to fight for justice and tolerance, fine. Boycott Bruno or something else that obviously rips on gay people, not a game/movie/book because someone in the course of its development happens to disagree with you.
 

Resistance205

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Alex_P said:
Resistance205 said:
H.P Lovecraft was a racist, doesn't mean he didn't write amazing books.
Which are, however, absolutely suffused with his racist fears and obsessions.

-- Alex
Well yeah but...Ok, you have a very good point, but you can see my reasoning behind what I said right?
 

Alex_P

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Mar 27, 2008
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Isn't it a bit of a stretch to call Card just another member of the dev team?

Last I checked, Shadow Complex was set in his setting, as a bridge between his two Empire books.

-- Alex
 

Thunderhorse31

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ciretower said:
I guess if Adolf Hilter had made a game or wrote a book I wouldn't buy it. Even if he was just 1 person out of 100 that was envolved with the game, I still wouldn't buy it.
I call bullshit. You think that EVERY PERSON who worked on EVERY GAME you've EVER played agree with you on this issue? On EVERY issue you feel strongly about?

No. Of course not. Because people are entitled to their opinion, and the world is a pretty diverse place. Odds are you already bought a game from someone who was gay, or Mormon, or Republican, or neo-Nazi, etc. etc. etc.

Welcome to the Escapist. Logic is held in higher esteem here than on other sites, so you better step it up.
 

Alex_P

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Resistance205 said:
Well yeah but...Ok, you have a very good point, but you can see my reasoning behind what I said right?
Yes.

To clarify, what concerns me is the tendency to take the fluff and act like the thematic underpinnings of the work aren't there -- I won't say it's a geek-culture thing per se, but geeks do it all the time. And, well, those unexamined thematic underpinnings are a moral message that the audience internalizes without questioning it.

-- Alex
 

Logan Westbrook

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Feb 21, 2008
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To the people who've commented so far, I realise I've done you a disservice. Orson Scott Card, isn't just an opponent of gay marriage, he's organised a lobby group against it. I'll update the article to reflect that.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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So the guy is against gay marraige, so what.

Its not like he blatently advertizes it in the game. Right?
 

jamesworkshop

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I think this is a big issue about nothing
Card can hold whatever views he likes and people can decide to or not purchace his work for any reason I myself would not find his views effecting my purchasing decisions.
 

TsunamiWombat

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Resistance205 said:
H.P Lovecraft was a racist, doesn't mean he didn't write amazing books. I have never read Orson Scott Card's books, but as long as the game doesn't go along saying "Shoot him because he's gay" that's alright then.
Honestly I had no idea Card had anything againt homosexuals. Ender's relationships in Ender's game were all pretty... wierd, from that Pseudo-Sexual attraction to his sister that was danced around to the kinda touchy feely Bromance he shared with Bean AND Alai...

Seriously, I had no idea he was that conservative, considering all his work seems to be an indictment of facism, the military industrial complex, war, etc etc...
 

G1eet

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I personally couldn't give two shits whether Orson cares about gay marriage; I've always respected him as an author. As long as his views on it stay out of the game, I'm fine. Leave the man to his opinion; you all have yours.
 

Silly_Billy

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I believe Cards logic goes "If everyones a homosexual they'd be having too much sex and quit voting!!!"

Seriously, I have stopped buying his books because of his beliefs... or maybe because I felt Ender's Game was his only good one. I'd buy the game only if it got very positive reviews.
 

blaze96

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G1eet said:
I personally couldn't give two shits whether Orson cares about gay marriage; I've always respected him as an author. As long as his views on it stay out of the game, I'm fine. Leave the man to his opinion; you all have yours.
I couldn't have phrased it better myself. I am pro gay marriage, but I loved Ender's Game and think it the best book I've ever read. Does that make me a hypocrite? Card can believe whatever he wants to, and I can still respect him as a great author, even if I disagree. Unless the artist's beliefs take center stage, then I believe that an artist and their art are wholly separate.
 

westx207

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Even if the game did contain anti-gay messages, would pretending it didn't exist really be the best way to deal with it? Perhaps if his arguments are built with no more cogency than a forum troll, but if he can present interesting, original discussion, even if we passionately disagree with his conclusion, shouldn't we be ready to participate in the discussion rather than decide that there is no opposing viewpoint?

I'm saying read Mein Kampf. Try to flesh out the racist arguments of Lovecraft. It doesn't mean you have to agree with them, but ignoring them gives them the last say, and if they're argument is at least interesting, you can guarantee that they will have an audience. What will you have to say to them? If you've ignored the work, can you really efficiently address its concerns?
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Alex_P said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Also, all his class fears, drug fears, lack of understanding and all the other things that would have been "normal" in his time.
I'm not saying "Don't read Lovecraft cuz he's a racist." I am saying "Everything Lovecraft writes is suffused with his racism and it's good to actually recognize that."

-- Alex
Oh very much agreed, it's just that not all of it is "his" racism. When you grow up within a society that has no idea about another race, they're programmed views will tend to rub off on you.
 

joystickjunki3

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The game is not propaganda as far as I've played. And should we really condemn someone for having beliefs?

And I have no problem discussing the issues, I just don't care one way or the other on the topic of gay marriage.
 

Royas

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His political views are irrelevant to the game. I don't buy things he's involved in, not because I dislike his opinions (which I do) but rather because I'm unimpressed by Card as a writer. The fact that he is bigoted and apparently approaches his viewpoints without any logic has nothing to do with it. Though I would love to hear exactly why he feels gay marriage would end democracy, that has to be a long dose of crazy there.
 

Ninja_X

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As long as the game is good and doesn't try to force feed me his political ideas I see no reason to oppose buying it.
 

ccesarano

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I'm a political moderate. This means, at some point, everyone pisses me off when they start talking politics. In fact, replacing an interesting philosophical discussion on how Egyptians viewed mortality with some bullshit environmentalist agenda that's not going to matter some years down the line in the Watchmen film gives me great cause to want to chop off heads.

However, letting it bother me would just keep me from reading, watching or playing a lot of interesting pieces of entertainment. Besides, reading a book by someone that disagrees with you could potentially educate you and help you see how ignorant of something you really are. It helps me all the time. Ultimately, it is pretty foolish to let someone's political position effect your perception of a piece of entertainment. You are supporting the work the man put forward writing the game, not what he put forth politically.

That said, if the game were to have a bunch of anti-gay propoganda, there would be legitimate cause for concern. If it does not, then there is no problem.
 

michael_ab

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AboveUp" post="7.132507.2958812 said:
I hate cheese, you're a cheese lover. I make you a cup of tea, the process of the tea being made, packed and stocked at the supermarket had nothing to do with my views of cheese. Heck, some of them might even love cheese.
quote]

very elequently put, probibly the best way too

yeah dude i think you outvoted, just suck it up and play the game, you wont be sorry