SJW Jim Sterling says Link has to be female and that violent video games promote rape culture.

Kajin

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scotth266 said:
You know, I'm all for having this conversation. But the fact that you started it with a massive fucking bait instead of actual conversation irks me.

Some people have a hard-on for hating Sterling, what else is new. I can't be arsed to watch the Zelda video because I think it's one of the biggest fan-wank nontroversies to ever hit the gaming community with one side going "WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEEE" and the other side going "LOL FUCK YOUUUUUUUU." A pox on both their houses, I say. Have the next game star Ganondorf. I'd like to see Nintendo make the holder of the Triforce of Power a good guy for once. Power doesn't have to be evil, just like courage doesn't have to be good. It'd make a nice mixup from their usual style too: instead of collecting gadgets Ganon could go around learning spells and shit like in Okami.
Maybe not him being the good guy, but some other evil comes along that's more powerful, maybe? He protects Hyrule from this greater evil, not out of the goodness of his heart, but because Hyrule is his, dammit, and no two bit thug is going to come along and take what rightfully belongs to him!

I'd play it.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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Kibeth41 said:
chrissx2 said:
He has no problem with Link not being a girl. He just finds the explenation why Link can't be a girl quite stupid.
has an explanation ever been given by Nintendo as to why he can't be a girl?

I know a lot of avid Zelda fans see the name of Link as a mantle, but a lot of the more casual fans who don't look deeply into the franchise (e.g. Children) see Link as an established male character.
Link is the reincarnation of a specific hero. A hero who was placed into said reincarnation cycle by the Goddess Hylia. Basically, it's not just a hero taking up the mantle, it's that specific guy being reborn over and over again, partially so he can always save the relm, and partially as a way for said Goddess to apologize to him for what she put him through to make him a worthy champion.

Basically, Hylia wouldn't want to risk changing him too much. He'll still have some differences due to various upbringings, but the core will always remain the same.
 

Kajin

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Metalix Knightmare said:
Kibeth41 said:
chrissx2 said:
He has no problem with Link not being a girl. He just finds the explenation why Link can't be a girl quite stupid.
has an explanation ever been given by Nintendo as to why he can't be a girl?

I know a lot of avid Zelda fans see the name of Link as a mantle, but a lot of the more casual fans who don't look deeply into the franchise (e.g. Children) see Link as an established male character.
Link is the reincarnation of a specific hero. A hero who was placed into said reincarnation cycle by the Goddess Hylia. Basically, it's not just a hero taking up the mantle, it's that specific guy being reborn over and over again, partially so he can always save the relm, and partially as a way for said Goddess to apologize to him for what she put him through to make him a worthy champion.

Basically, Hylia wouldn't want to risk changing him too much. He'll still have some differences due to various upbringings, but the core will always remain the same.
That's kind of fuzzy, to be honest. It's been established that the various incarnations of Link are different individuals in their own right. The Link in the upcoming Breath of the Wilds game is a different Link from Twilight Princess, and the Twilight Princess Link is a different Link from Ocarina of Time (you can summon TP Link as a companion in BotW and OoT Link shows up in spirit form to give sword training lessons to TP Link).

Link is little more than the physical embodiment of what it takes to be a hero. The individual Links are linked together by that fact and share similar qualities because of it, but I think there's sufficient evidence to say that they are, in fact, completely different individuals at least some of the time. Different Links for different periods of crises. This is in direct contrast to Zelda, who is always the direct incarnation of the same individual (specifically the Goddess Hylia) and Ganon (who just straight up refuses to die).
 

Czann

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There is a term that people use called "Mangina". It's stupid like the "Mansplaining" or "Whitesplaining" SJWs love to use but sometimes even a silly, stupid term can be right.

Some guys are so brainwashed by ideology they become caricatures. Self-hating caricatures. This apply for both sides but something like these videos (the ones not meant to be sarcastic or ironic) are laughable in their fervor.

So no wonder people believe in such things.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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Kibeth41 said:
Metalix Knightmare said:
Link is the reincarnation of a specific hero. A hero who was placed into said reincarnation cycle by the Goddess Hylia. Basically, it's not just a hero taking up the mantle, it's that specific guy being reborn over and over again, partially so he can always save the relm, and partially as a way for said Goddess to apologize to him for what she put him through to make him a worthy champion.

Basically, Hylia wouldn't want to risk changing him too much. He'll still have some differences due to various upbringings, but the core will always remain the same.
That's a fun fan theory, but never confirmed.

For one, Wind Waker implies that the Link in that game has absolutely no relation to the hero of time.
Fan Ther...It was in a manga! And that bit about Wind Waker only adds evidence to it! Link is reincarnated, not part of a blood line!
 

minkus_draconus

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Drathnoxis said:
I notice not many people have interest in responding to Jim's video on violence.

I have a question for the people who want a gender swapped Link: do you want a full gender swap for all the main characters in the game (male Zelda, female Ganon, female Tingle, etc.) or simply a gender swap for Link alone?

I might be able to get behind a full gender swap as long as it's pulled off a bit better than that terrible Adventure Time episode. Just swapping Link doesn't really seem fair to me.
I'm for something in between. change genders where it works for the story/character. We have had all kind of fairies in the games so it doe snot matter what you do with them. I don't think the aspects of the triforce are tied to a gender so you can flip as many of them as you want any way. No reason Gannon(dorf) can't be a witch. No reason we cant have a prince with the triforce of wisdom. All the other characters are NPCs and offer a lot of variety anyway.

As for the Ice King's fan-fiction I see no problem with it. Have you watched any of the other episodes with Fiona and Cake?
 

minkus_draconus

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Ezekiel said:
Gender swapping would be a pretty disappointing way to do it. If they're gonna do a female protagonist, I'd like her to be an original character, not blond or dressed in green and not a goody two shoes like Link. Someone more mischievous, like Tetra. She should have her own quirks and gameplay.
Even if femlink had the same color hair and clothing color the style would be it's own.
With the reincarnation gimmick the character would have it's own quirks and personality and that (if the designers are any good) includes gameplay.

Sure some things are standard (bombs, the sound of opening a chests) but every game seems to have different gameplay with male link.
 

Mikeybb

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Eric the Orange said:
chrissx2 said:
He has no problem with Link not being a girl. He just finds the explenation why Link can't be a girl quite stupid.


Eh, i just read the rest of your post >. <
hehe. yeah that's why I made the inflammatory title. Too try and get people to respond without reading the post. for double irony.
The fact that he's even saying that his game is 'better than nothing' at least reveals a sense of awareness regarding the quality of the end product.
To an extent I feel sorry for him as he no doubt wanted to-

I'm sorry.
I tried to go for triple irony by responding to a completely different topic, but it was a bridge too far.

One day someone is going to figure out how to break that irony threshold, but it's not going to be me.
Perhaps humanity were just not destined to explore the great infinity of irony.
 

happyninja42

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Kibeth41 said:
Metalix Knightmare said:
Fan Ther...It was in a manga! And that bit about Wind Waker only adds evidence to it! Link is reincarnated, not part of a blood line!
I'm referring to this part. Unless I'm mistaken?

Metalix Knightmare said:
Basically, Hylia wouldn't want to risk changing him too much. He'll still have some differences due to various upbringings, but the core will always remain the same.
Wind Waker doesn't really add evidence to it. Wind Waker is literally just a hero taking the mantle.

The characters mention several times in Wind Waker that Link isn't the destined hero of time, and he's even required to go through the temple of the gods in order to prove himself worthy.

But as I indicated before, a lot of people see Link as a singular character, and not as multiple.
Well whether Link is confirmed a reincarnated hero soul, destined to be reborn each time to defend the world, or a completely unconnected coincidence that it's always this Link guy in every game, either scenario supports the idea that the Hero could be female. Either there is a reincarnation sequence, and no reason the Hero couldn't be female when being reborn.

Or there is no "tradition" that is actually established in the lore, and it's just convention on the part of Nintendo, meaning they can muck with it whenever they want.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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Metalix Knightmare said:
Basically, Hylia wouldn't want to risk changing him too much. He'll still have some differences due to various upbringings, but the core will always remain the same.
Where does it say anything about changing him too much and where does it say female Link would be too much of some sort of change.
 

KissingSunlight

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I know the OP started this thread to strawman people who disagrees with SJW's. Being one of those people who disagrees with social justice critics. The joke is on the OP. I really enjoyed these Jimquistion videos that was embedded. I even watched more of his videos later that day.

The only bone of contention I have with Jim's opinions was him saying, "Why don't the developers say 'We didn't want to have a playable female character in this game?'" By saying that, it will open the door to all the social justice critics to be outraged and claim that videogames are sexist.

About the violence video, I thought that was more of a personal plea than anything else. Remember this guy is a videogame critic. So, he has to play a lot of games whether he likes them or not. Most videogames are violent. So, I empathize with what he is saying. However, it's really not relevant to most of us. We can pick and choose how often we want to play a violent game.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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KissingSunlight said:
The only bone of contention I have with Jim's opinions was him saying, "Why don't the developers say 'We didn't want to have a playable female character in this game?'" By saying that, it will open the door to all the social justice critics to be outraged and claim that videogames are sexist.
The bogeyman is never a good reason to do or not do something.

About the violence video, I thought that was more of a personal plea than anything else. Remember this guy is a videogame critic. So, he has to play a lot of games whether he likes them or not. Most videogames are violent. So, I empathize with what he is saying. However, it's really not relevant to most of us. We can pick and choose how often we want to play a violent game.
Variety and possible new directions are rather relevant, even if I never get tired of violent games.
 

Eric the Orange

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KissingSunlight said:
I know the OP started this thread to strawman people who disagrees with SJW's.
Um, no I didn't. The point was people responding to stuff without actually watching (or in this case reading) the stuff. Some people have already formed an opinion on jims work and just saw, "jim is doing a video about *blank*" and decided they already knew what he was gonna say and responded to what they thought it was rather than what it actually was.

See because Jim has in the past made videos that fall more in line with the left side of the political spectrum, some people on the internet in the black and white view decided that Jim is on the "SJW" side, instead of a real person with varied and nuanced opinions.
 

Achelexus

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Eh, Jim is a bit of an idiot, everyone knows that, which is probably good since he left the escapist. And people bitching about Link not being female should really rethink their lives.
 

KissingSunlight

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Eric the Orange said:
KissingSunlight said:
I know the OP started this thread to strawman people who disagrees with SJW's.
Um, no I didn't. The point was people responding to stuff without actually watching (or in this case reading) the stuff. Some people have already formed an opinion on jims work and just saw, "jim is doing a video about *blank*" and decided they already knew what he was gonna say and responded to what they thought it was rather than what it actually was.

See because Jim has in the past made videos that fall more in line with the left side of the political spectrum, some people on the internet in the black and white view decided that Jim is on the "SJW" side, instead of a real person with varied and nuanced opinions.
I'm sorry for making that assumption. I agree with you. People who respond from just the headlines are incredibly annoying.

As for Jim Sterling, I can take and leave him. He has a flamboyant schtick that distracts from a mediocre critic style. I can't think of one time he has made want to buy a game based on his recommendation.
 

KissingSunlight

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Secondhand Revenant said:
KissingSunlight said:
The only bone of contention I have with Jim's opinions was him saying, "Why don't the developers say 'We didn't want to have a playable female character in this game?'" By saying that, it will open the door to all the social justice critics to be outraged and claim that videogames are sexist.
The bogeyman is never a good reason to do or not do something.

About the violence video, I thought that was more of a personal plea than anything else. Remember this guy is a videogame critic. So, he has to play a lot of games whether he likes them or not. Most videogames are violent. So, I empathize with what he is saying. However, it's really not relevant to most of us. We can pick and choose how often we want to play a violent game.
Variety and possible new directions are rather relevant, even if I never get tired of violent games.
If you are a billion dollar company, you are looking to please everyone. Regardless, of how silly the excuses they come up with. They have to do that, because some people refuse to acknowledge that creators should have any say on their fictional works. (Death of the Author)

There are a lot of variety of games. Could there be more? Sure. Would it be nice if there were more variety from AAA games? Most definitely. All that would happen if we vote with our wallets. Videogames, just like movies, more people prefer sequels and reboots of established series over anything original and different.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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KissingSunlight said:
Secondhand Revenant said:
KissingSunlight said:
The only bone of contention I have with Jim's opinions was him saying, "Why don't the developers say 'We didn't want to have a playable female character in this game?'" By saying that, it will open the door to all the social justice critics to be outraged and claim that videogames are sexist.
The bogeyman is never a good reason to do or not do something.

About the violence video, I thought that was more of a personal plea than anything else. Remember this guy is a videogame critic. So, he has to play a lot of games whether he likes them or not. Most videogames are violent. So, I empathize with what he is saying. However, it's really not relevant to most of us. We can pick and choose how often we want to play a violent game.
Variety and possible new directions are rather relevant, even if I never get tired of violent games.
If you are a billion dollar company, you are looking to please everyone. Regardless, of how silly the excuses they come up with. They have to do that, because some people refuse to acknowledge that creators should have any say on their fictional works. (Death of the Author)
This is missing the point about the threat not being real.

There are a lot of variety of games. Could there be more? Sure. Would it be nice if there were more variety from AAA games? Most definitely. All that would happen if we vote with our wallets. Videogames, just like movies, more people prefer sequels and reboots of established series over anything original and different.
Voting with your wallet is not some panacea. It is not easily interpreted. There are myriad reasons people may not buy a game. Simply not buying it does not tell them which and leaves them playing a guessing game of how to please the people who don't buy. It also depends on collective action between people who are unlikely to be coordinating, sometimes requiring them to act in a way that is to their detriment (not buying something they want to have to make a bigger point)
 

RedDeadFred

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Samtemdo8 said:
The thing is why are we having this discussion with Link of all people? Why Link?

I have never seen anyone asking for a female Mario. You know why because he is now firmly established as a male character.

Link has now been imbedded in everyone's psyche as a male character, he is made to be male, he will remain male.
I assume because Link is pretty damn close to the blank slate type characters we get in Elder Scrolls games, so having a simple model swap and raising the pitch of the grunts wouldn't really have any story impact. Link's the kind of character who you project yourself onto a lot more than other characters because it's easy to do when said character completely lacks a personality. I'm not saying they should've done this, I'm just saying that he's probably one of the easiest iconic characters in gaming to gender swap (or give the option of a swap).

Edit:
Achelexus said:
Eh, Jim is a bit of an idiot, everyone knows that, which is probably good since he left the escapist. And people bitching about Link not being female should really rethink their lives.
You didn't watch the video or read the whole post, did you? OP caught another one in his web clickbait!