Skyrim Streamlining Removes Confusion, Says Bethesda

FuzzyRaccoon

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God, what whiny people are appearing out of the woodwork. I for one am going to wait and see if this is truly a streamlining and not a dumbing down. I didn't like the fact that in Oblivion they were forcing me to make choices that I had not idea about, so I'm glad.

In Mass Effect 2 I was happy to learn they were taking things out, then I also realized that they took a little bit too much out. For the 3rd one they're saying they're gonna add a little bit more. I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that I'm going to be enjoying both of these games.

I... actually am getting some kind of sick joy out of knowing that this is going to happen and that plenty of people are bemoaning it. It makes me feel exultant.
 

The Shade

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Finally! A cure for Bethesda Syndrome!

It's a condition my friends and I came up with to identify games that no one can design a proper character on the first try. We called it Bethesda Syndrome since pretty much every Bethesda game had this problem. Sounds like Todd Howard (the developer genius that he is) picked up on that problem.
 

Kahunaburger

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coolkirb said:
No matter how complex or simple it gets its basically going to boil down to the elite fans narrowing it down to several builds that everyone must follow or otherwise be at risk of being banished from the world and being called a noob.
It always cracks me up when people do this for Elder Scrolls games. Really, any character that has illusion and/or alchemy can power through basically anything.
 

Kahunaburger

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Sober Thal said:
It seems like they would rather have some more mods added to Morrowind, than experience this new game.
Or you know, they would like a game that is as good as Morrowind, but with better gameplay elements. But what do they know about what they enjoy? They should accept what they're given, or they're not true fans, apparently.
 

Kahunaburger

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Sober Thal said:
Kahunaburger said:
Sober Thal said:
It seems like they would rather have some more mods added to Morrowind, than experience this new game.
Or you know, they would like a game that is as good as Morrowind, but with better gameplay elements. But what do they know about what they enjoy! They should accept what they're given, or they're not true fans!1!!
Considering they liked Morrowind better than Oblivion, I couldn't actually care less about what they want.

They should just 'eat' their precious MODs and stop bothering people.

Okay, okay.... that's what I want to say.... but instead I'll say...


You are all soooo right. Fuck Bethesda, they suck ass, lets boycott Skyrim, herp hurp derp durp.


Seriously tho... I have no right to complain about the complaints of others. I am sorry for even posting here.
Um... I'm not quite sure what you're getting the "boycott" thing from. As far as I can tell, people just want a Skyrim that:

A. does the stuff that made Morrowind a classic (good factions, good world, good atmosphere, good exploration, good magic system, good customization, etc.)
B. incorporated the ways (stealth and melee) that Oblivion improved on Morrowind,
C. didn't incorporate the stuff that either game did wrong,
and
D. does some new stuff that previous Elder Scrolls games didn't do.

Is that really something to get mad over?
 

HaraDaya

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008Zulu said:
HaraDaya said:
I always like having more choices. But they're absolutely right about Oblivion forcing you to choose your skills before you have any idea what real impact they'll have. I think I created 3 characters before I had one with a mix I was happy with.
Yes, I too forgot that the tutorial mission that took 30 minutes to complete and introduced you to all the skills and even allowed to respec your character before you started the game proper, just in case you didn't like how your character played.

The streamlining is a wasted effort.
It was a tutorial in the basics, putting you up against low level enemies like rats and goblins, an introduction to the styles of play available. Even if your character kicked ass there, as soon as you got out in the "real world", it was suddenly a lot tougher. It didn't show how effective your set skills would be out there.
 

Lissa-QUON

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The Shade said:
Finally! A cure for Bethesda Syndrome!

It's a condition my friends and I came up with to identify games that no one can design a proper character on the first try. We called it Bethesda Syndrome since pretty much every Bethesda game had this problem. Sounds like Todd Howard (the developer genius that he is) picked up on that problem.
I have made alright characters on the first try. Then again I just keep rolling up a Thieving Bastard, after the third Bathesda game I can design up one of those stat wise pretty well. Now graphics wise - they always look like they hit every single branch of the ugly tree.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

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hasnt anyone else realised that with the many perks that are specific to archetypes, we are still going to be able to make wizards, warrior and archers. the game just doesnt ask you to pick warrior at the start of the game, it lets you build your warrior as the game progresses. thats all, stop raging people.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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imnotparanoid said:
To be fair 30 mins is not really enough time to 'explore' your skill choices, especially seeing as few of them where really used in it.
Maybe, but the various skills do have descriptions in game. If your bored while the game is installing, the manual.
 

Hamish Durie

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they could solve this by putting up one of those *would you like to change something etc etc* screens up about 2/3 hours in
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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HaraDaya said:
It was a tutorial in the basics, putting you up against low level enemies like rats and goblins, an introduction to the styles of play available. Even if your character kicked ass there, as soon as you got out in the "real world", it was suddenly a lot tougher. It didn't show how effective your set skills would be out there.
The basics yeah. A tutorial in the more advanced mechanics would be your first play-through of the game.

Plenty of documentation explained how there were 3 levels for each of the skills. You put more points in to a skill then it will become better, coupled with the descriptions of the skills adds up to correctly assuming what they would be like at higher levels. If your Destruction starts at 25, then you will know that at 75 you would be able to cast more powerful spells. Same with armour, weapons, alchemy, etc.

Streamlining is catering to the people too lazy to read the manual, or pay attention to the in game descriptions.
 

HaraDaya

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008Zulu said:
HaraDaya said:
It was a tutorial in the basics, putting you up against low level enemies like rats and goblins, an introduction to the styles of play available. Even if your character kicked ass there, as soon as you got out in the "real world", it was suddenly a lot tougher. It didn't show how effective your set skills would be out there.
The basics yeah. A tutorial in the more advanced mechanics would be your first play-through of the game.

Plenty of documentation explained how there were 3 levels for each of the skills. You put more points in to a skill then it will become better, coupled with the descriptions of the skills adds up to correctly assuming what they would be like at higher levels. If your Destruction starts at 25, then you will know that at 75 you would be able to cast more powerful spells. Same with armour, weapons, alchemy, etc.

Streamlining is catering to the people too lazy to read the manual, or pay attention to the in game descriptions.
True that. But I think you've misunderstood my post. I'm all for more options in skills and so on, but I did agree with Bethesda that it took a few characters before I finally had a clue about how many skillpoints you needed for a skill to be effective even early on. My character would be above average in too many skills, and not great in any.
 

Akisa

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Laxman9292 said:
Akisa said:
dragongit said:
If all else fails someone will make a mod along the way that will do what the developers don't.
How much you want to bet there is going to be no mod tools? Remember companies who were supported by mods are now turning their backs.
Everything I'm worth. Bethesda, and TES in particular, have been known for their incredible mods and at this point is a historical aspect of the series.
So have other games but that doesn't change the fact companies are refusing to provide mod tools now of days. The more announcements about Skyrim has led me to be it's consolized first it's going to be console lead, now it's being streamlined.
 

imnot

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008Zulu said:
imnotparanoid said:
To be fair 30 mins is not really enough time to 'explore' your skill choices, especially seeing as few of them where really used in it.
Maybe, but the various skills do have descriptions in game. If your bored while the game is installing, the manual.
I know what you mean (that was one hell of a manual!)
But generaly its easier to learn by doing and often you wont know if that skill will be fun/useful to your character until its to late.

tbh the way they did skills and the voice acting was the only bit I didnt like about oblivion.
Oh and the combat.
 

WorldFree55

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I will post what i have said in another thread. Whenever there is a certain outrage, complaints, observations, etc. On hyped up games that are not out yet.

Back in 2004, as I'm sure many of you know, before Fable 1 came out, Lionhead promised many things to their game that did not end up exactly coming true. A long and incredible story that would take your breath away half-way through the game, vast depth, very open-ended gameplay, Skin pigmentation varying from sun exposure, planting a seed and watching it grow into a tree over time, etc. You get the point, some of which if not most did not come true in the final product.

Now when i got Fable, i never actually read or have heard any of these promises of potential content. I just got the game because of what I've seen from the videos, from the features it really did have, and well...because it looked pretty damn awesome. And in the end, it was money well spent. I loved game for what it did have and had my own gripes for whatever problems it also had. But overall, the game was my drug and played countless hours on it.

However, there would also be people who have paid a lot of attention to that kind of coverage, coverage for what peter said that would end up being lies or whatever the game DID NOT have. The game overall still got positive reviews and really high ratings anyway, but there would still those people that go into what we call "nerdrage" over some of the "what's not in it" features and completely debunk the game for it. Like it's all of a sudden the worse game ever for it. Would i be pissed if i heard some of what peter said at the time? Perhaps, i won't doubt that possibility because it has happened before with other games. But I look at games for what they DO HAVE that would claw me away the $60 dollars. The features it did have that would entertain me and make me play the game for hours on end.

I would continue from then on to always look at it from that point of view and i will always look at it that way. Because if all you do is look at the game for what it doesn't have, then you will end up refusing to see any of the good things that a certain game does have. Bad games are games that don't have much going for it. They have little if not any good qualities about the game itself, not because it didn't have me be able to jump higher then a raccoon.

So what I'm trying to say is, for whatever game developer decides to add or remove on their product, the game they have worked on for 2 or 3+ years (in Skyrim's case 6 years!), decide on it if that ends up being the right decision when the game finally comes out. I mean lets gets real here, You all know were both going to get the game the day it releases, or at least well play it eventually. I know i will be waiting on the midnight line to purchase it. And i think there is a good chance that were probably going to love it anyway, no matter what Bethesda decides to add or remove (unless of course the game really is trash XD). But judge it for what it has and if the features it does have is worth the money, worth the praise it's been getting since the trailer, then so it shall be. But if it's not, then it's because the game itself does not have the features that interest you. That way, for whatever game you do get, that you do love or hate, I swear you will never be disappointed. You will also be within good reason to be mad if the game really ends up sucking XD.