Skyrim Streamlining Removes Confusion, Says Bethesda

[Pierce Graham]

They are adding perk-like skills and dragon shouts, both of which are entirely new mechanics to the franchise. And once more, and yet again, how exactly does removing athletics makes for a worse game?[/quote]

Because Bethesda is just being lazy by removing things that work perfectly well. Now everyone runs at the same speed (whether they're wearing heavy armor or naked), can't punch things (because apparently it's physically impossible to use fists), can't jump (Because apparently we can't use our legs to leap into the air, by Bethesda's logic) and now Soultrap is gone. Bravo, Bethesda.

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

How do you know that heavy armor doesn't reduce movement speed? And come on, do you really think punching has been removed? Bethesda just isn't going to bother pretending that punching is as viable as using weapons or magic. And of course jumping hasn't been removed, it's just everyone now jumps the same height, possibly altered by encumbrance, rather than you hopping at 20 Acrobatics and having uncontrollable uber-leaps at 100 acrobatics.

 

[Kahunaburger]

can't jump

Haha really? Bethesada, you have fallen far (no pun intended) since the days of Icarian Flight.

 

[Pierce Graham]

Well I assume we won't be able to, that or everyone will have the same height, whether they're wearing heavy armor or in the nude.
I don't see why game developers always remove things that work fine.

 

[chinangel]

Except that there's a difference between removing bad features because they're bad, and removing good features because they're too lazy to make people understand what they are.

Yeah, because Bethesda is infamous for cutting corners and being lazy.

On topic: THANK GOD!

Seriously, I love teh elder scroll games, i really do, but i can't count the number of times i had to restart because of this that or the other thing. Having a system that doesn't force me to make decisions without enough information is a great idea.

 

[chinangel]

You know, looking through the comments makes me see only one thing: "THEY CHANGED IT! IT SUCKS NOW! WE WANTED THE EXACT SAME GAME!"

-_-

Seriously people, if you want the old experience then go play the old game. The developers ARE trying to attract new gamers, not personally screw you over. They above all things want to make the games FUN, and yet so many of you re whining and complaining about the smallest thing, making it seem like there is no possible way the game could be good, WITHOUT EVEN PLAYING IT!

On topic.

Oblivion was kinda bad for having a lot of semi-useless skills. Like mercantile. Really? Really? Why do I want to specialize in dragging stuff around. I mean I know it's an option but it doesn't sound fun. I play elder scroll games to whack things, not play a merchant sim.

 

[chinangel]

Except that there's a difference between removing bad features because they're bad, and removing good features because they're too lazy to make people understand what they are.

Yeah, because Bethesda is infamous for cutting corners and being lazy.

They are, since Oblivion. Nothing was added in Oblivion over Morrowind, only removed. Now they're removing more stuff from Skyrim.

Then there was Fallout 3, the easiest and/or shortest RPG I've ever played. You needed the entirety of its DLC to live up to the base game New Vegas, developed by Obsidian.

Not to mention how buggy the Gamebryo engine was. Good riddance to that, at least. So yeah, Bethesda is pretty much synonymous with cutting gameplay features/depth at this point.

I'm pre-ordering Human Revolution, and waiting until I can buy Skyrim used for $20 so that Bethesda doesn't see a cent of my money. I'd suggest you all do the same. Support RPGs that don't have an eight-year-old audience in mind during development.

I loved Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. And Oblivion. And Morrowind.

Games are changing, devs have to change with it. I haven't ever had any real problem with bethesda (except for WET), so I'm going to be pre-ordering the game when I can. I don't care about supporting 'hardcore' games (whatever that is), I care about supporting GAMES. Games I find fun made by developers that can make fun games.

 

[Epona]

You know, looking through the comments makes me see only one thing: "THEY CHANGED IT! IT SUCKS NOW! WE WANTED THE EXACT SAME GAME!"

-_-

Seriously people, if you want the old experience then go play the old game. The developers ARE trying to attract new gamers, not personally screw you over. They above all things want to make the games FUN, and yet so many of you re whining and complaining about the smallest thing, making it seem like there is no possible way the game could be good, WITHOUT EVEN PLAYING IT!

On topic.

Oblivion was kinda bad for having a lot of semi-useless skills. Like mercantile. Really? Really? Why do I want to specialize in dragging stuff around. I mean I know it's an option but it doesn't sound fun. I play elder scroll games to whack things, not play a merchant sim.

Yeah cause trying to attract new gamers has such a fantastic track record. Why of why would we ever be concerned?

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I know what you mean (that was one hell of a manual!)
But generaly its easier to learn by doing and often you wont know if that skill will be fun/useful to your character until its to late.

tbh the way they did skills and the voice acting was the only bit I didnt like about oblivion.
Oh and the combat.

The only real "useless" skill I have found is Lockpicking. Mysticism has lock picking spells and there is that Daedric shrine quest where you get an unbreakable perma lockpick. Marksman is kinda gimped too.

Voice acting was kinda bad, I mostly quick click through it all.

 

[k7avenger]

You know, looking through the comments makes me see only one thing: "THEY CHANGED IT! IT SUCKS NOW! WE WANTED THE EXACT SAME GAME!"

-_-

Seriously people, if you want the old experience then go play the old game. The developers ARE trying to attract new gamers, not personally screw you over. They above all things want to make the games FUN, and yet so many of you re whining and complaining about the smallest thing, making it seem like there is no possible way the game could be good, WITHOUT EVEN PLAYING IT!

On topic.

Oblivion was kinda bad for having a lot of semi-useless skills. Like mercantile. Really? Really? Why do I want to specialize in dragging stuff around. I mean I know it's an option but it doesn't sound fun. I play elder scroll games to whack things, not play a merchant sim.

You play to whack things, he might play to be a merchant, and someone else might play to sneak around and...do sneaky things. Its not very graceful to point to them and go "Ha ha, can't do that now!" And besides, I always thought God of War did the whole "whack things" so much better.

 

[chinangel]

You know, looking through the comments makes me see only one thing: "THEY CHANGED IT! IT SUCKS NOW! WE WANTED THE EXACT SAME GAME!"

-_-

Seriously people, if you want the old experience then go play the old game. The developers ARE trying to attract new gamers, not personally screw you over. They above all things want to make the games FUN, and yet so many of you re whining and complaining about the smallest thing, making it seem like there is no possible way the game could be good, WITHOUT EVEN PLAYING IT!

On topic.

Oblivion was kinda bad for having a lot of semi-useless skills. Like mercantile. Really? Really? Why do I want to specialize in dragging stuff around. I mean I know it's an option but it doesn't sound fun. I play elder scroll games to whack things, not play a merchant sim.

Yeah cause trying to attract new gamers has such a fantastic track record. Why of why would we ever be concerned?

Because new gamers mean more money for the companies. which mean bigger games are released more often. Whih means our hobbies are supported, it also helps to break down the stereotype of the 'fat pimply nerd in the basement'.

Or would you rather gaming be an exclusive members-only club that's virtually impenetrable by any but the most dedicated, with a tiny community offering them what they want due to a lack of audience and cashflow?

 

[No_Remainders]

Sigh. The exact same thing will happen as happened with Mass Effect.

You'll get one group who will call it "steamlining" and see it for the better, and the other group will call it "dumbing down" and ***** about it.

Also, captcha, WTF?

 

[Epona]

I know what you mean (that was one hell of a manual!)
But generaly its easier to learn by doing and often you wont know if that skill will be fun/useful to your character until its to late.

tbh the way they did skills and the voice acting was the only bit I didnt like about oblivion.
Oh and the combat.

The only real "useless" skill I have found is Lockpicking. Mysticism has lock picking spells and there is that Daedric shrine quest where you get an unbreakable perma lockpick. Marksman is kinda gimped too.

Voice acting was kinda bad, I mostly quick click through it all.

Lockpicking is one of my favorite skills. LOL, I guess we see things opposite because I see the Open spells as being a backup that I use if I run out of lockpicks.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

True that. But I think you've misunderstood my post. I'm all for more options in skills and so on, but I did agree with Bethesda that it took a few characters before I finally had a clue about how many skillpoints you needed for a skill to be effective even early on. My character would be above average in too many skills, and not great in any.

I think the problem there was the classes you could choose from in the beginning. They are all specialized to a certain area, which makes it harder when you come to one of the many frequent points in the game where said skill set doesn't offer much. I never selected one of the presets, I always made my own custom class.

The people who played Morrowind first had an idea of what Oblivion would be like. Morrowind's preset classes had the same problems.

Playing a pure mage is fun, until you realize that most of the foes in the game prefer melee. To be honest, I should have seen that one coming, a hack'n'slash dungeon crawler style game, close combat is to be the norm.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Because new gamers mean more money for the companies. which mean bigger games are released more often. Whih means our hobbies are supported, it also helps to break down the stereotype of the 'fat pimply nerd in the basement'.

Or would you rather gaming be an exclusive members-only club that's virtually impenetrable by any but the most dedicated, with a tiny community offering them what they want due to a lack of audience and cashflow?

Yeah, because someone who's never played an Elder Scrolls game is going to be all "well, I was on the fence on this game before, but now that I know that there isn't a skill for jumping and my pants are glued to my shirt, I'm in!"

 

[Epona]

You know, looking through the comments makes me see only one thing: "THEY CHANGED IT! IT SUCKS NOW! WE WANTED THE EXACT SAME GAME!"

-_-

Seriously people, if you want the old experience then go play the old game. The developers ARE trying to attract new gamers, not personally screw you over. They above all things want to make the games FUN, and yet so many of you re whining and complaining about the smallest thing, making it seem like there is no possible way the game could be good, WITHOUT EVEN PLAYING IT!

On topic.

Oblivion was kinda bad for having a lot of semi-useless skills. Like mercantile. Really? Really? Why do I want to specialize in dragging stuff around. I mean I know it's an option but it doesn't sound fun. I play elder scroll games to whack things, not play a merchant sim.

Yeah cause trying to attract new gamers has such a fantastic track record. Why of why would we ever be concerned?

Because new gamers mean more money for the companies. which mean bigger games are released more often. Whih means our hobbies are supported, it also helps to break down the stereotype of the 'fat pimply nerd in the basement'.

Or would you rather gaming be an exclusive members-only club that's virtually impenetrable by any but the most dedicated, with a tiny community offering them what they want due to a lack of audience and cashflow?

More money for who (not you)? Bigger games streamlined even further for who (not you)? Yeah, what is the benefit to individual gamers.

Is it really a good practice to gain new gamers with every game only to tell them that what they liked in the game will be removed in the next game to attract new gamers? It's a vicious cycle.

 

[chinangel]

You know, looking through the comments makes me see only one thing: "THEY CHANGED IT! IT SUCKS NOW! WE WANTED THE EXACT SAME GAME!"

-_-

Seriously people, if you want the old experience then go play the old game. The developers ARE trying to attract new gamers, not personally screw you over. They above all things want to make the games FUN, and yet so many of you re whining and complaining about the smallest thing, making it seem like there is no possible way the game could be good, WITHOUT EVEN PLAYING IT!

On topic.

Oblivion was kinda bad for having a lot of semi-useless skills. Like mercantile. Really? Really? Why do I want to specialize in dragging stuff around. I mean I know it's an option but it doesn't sound fun. I play elder scroll games to whack things, not play a merchant sim.

Yeah cause trying to attract new gamers has such a fantastic track record. Why of why would we ever be concerned?

Because new gamers mean more money for the companies. which mean bigger games are released more often. Whih means our hobbies are supported, it also helps to break down the stereotype of the 'fat pimply nerd in the basement'.

Or would you rather gaming be an exclusive members-only club that's virtually impenetrable by any but the most dedicated, with a tiny community offering them what they want due to a lack of audience and cashflow?

More money for who (not you)? Bigger games streamlined even further for who (not you)? Yeah, what is the benefit to individual gamers.

Is it really a good practice to gain new gamers with every game only to tell them that what they liked in the game will be removed in the next game to attract new gamers? It's a vicious cycle.

so it's better to keep things exclusive and have the gaming community shrink smaller and smaller and become this members-only clb that eventually vanishes because of a lack of a fanbase? And don't say 'there will always be gamers' because if you keep others out, there won't be.

 

[Epona]

You know, looking through the comments makes me see only one thing: "THEY CHANGED IT! IT SUCKS NOW! WE WANTED THE EXACT SAME GAME!"

-_-

Seriously people, if you want the old experience then go play the old game. The developers ARE trying to attract new gamers, not personally screw you over. They above all things want to make the games FUN, and yet so many of you re whining and complaining about the smallest thing, making it seem like there is no possible way the game could be good, WITHOUT EVEN PLAYING IT!

On topic.

Oblivion was kinda bad for having a lot of semi-useless skills. Like mercantile. Really? Really? Why do I want to specialize in dragging stuff around. I mean I know it's an option but it doesn't sound fun. I play elder scroll games to whack things, not play a merchant sim.

Yeah cause trying to attract new gamers has such a fantastic track record. Why of why would we ever be concerned?

Because new gamers mean more money for the companies. which mean bigger games are released more often. Whih means our hobbies are supported, it also helps to break down the stereotype of the 'fat pimply nerd in the basement'.

Or would you rather gaming be an exclusive members-only club that's virtually impenetrable by any but the most dedicated, with a tiny community offering them what they want due to a lack of audience and cashflow?

More money for who (not you)? Bigger games streamlined even further for who (not you)? Yeah, what is the benefit to individual gamers.

Is it really a good practice to gain new gamers with every game only to tell them that what they liked in the game will be removed in the next game to attract new gamers? It's a vicious cycle.

so it's better to keep things exclusive and have the gaming community shrink smaller and smaller and become this members-only clb that eventually vanishes because of a lack of a fanbase? And don't say 'there will always be gamers' because if you keep others out, there won't be.

Keep others out? No one is stopping people from buying Morrowind or Oblivion. Dumbing down games loses gamers too and at some point you lose more than you gain.

For example, marriage in an ES game? What is this, The Sims or Fable? Neither of those games interest me and if Skyrim or the next ES game gets too close to either of those games then I am out. I have no interest in farting or making my Sim go to the bathroom so he won't wet himself.