Skyrim Streamlining Removes Confusion, Says Bethesda

[unacomn]

I kinda agree with the part where you need to know the game first before you decide what character you want to play as. I just hope they find a good way to convey all the info needed upfront.

But I wish they hadn't reduced the variety of armor even further for the sake of aesthetics. So what if I want to wear a single glove. What are they? Cespenar?

 

[Nazgual]

Oh sorry I read it the wrong way XD It sounded like you were implying otherwise. Yes well in this case I believe it that it removed a bad mechanic and replaced it with a smaller but more meaningful choice. I agree that the player has a right to be given a choice so long as the choice has depth. Eg A game lets the player use either a sword or archery for a weapon. Problem is that the bow and arrows are overpowered and have extreme range so no one ever picks the sword.

 

[Gather]

I don't get why that means I can't be a drunken boxing badass.

You'll be too busy casting magic with one hand and doing other stuff with your second to box with both hands.

Unless there's a crazy martial arts somewhere in this word designed around having one hand tied behind your back.

Edit: How it effects the streamlining to remove confusion? Well, it would be confusing seeing someone punch out a dragon with one hand and have a glowing fireball orb in the other.

 

[Rainforce]

I quite like having complex systems in my RPG's. Hence why i enjoy games like the NWN series (which tbh isn't that complicated but still a hell of a lot more so then oblivion was)

One of the more complicated games i play is EU3

NWN is based on the basic DnD 3rd edition rules, so.........YEAH. XD

I personally think this can go very well, especially for people who haven't played RPGs before, but it could also totally slide into the "dumbed down" territory.

 

[Ranorak]

previous Bethesda games had asked players to make choices on skills and classes before they had proper understanding of what they did

...except that the target audience of this game, by which I mean RPG fans, already know and understand the systems involved in an RPG. That's the beauty of creating a game in this style is that you can have the target audience be people who undestand and are experienced with the material already; you do not introduce new gamers to an RPG to start with.

Even some seasoned fantasy RPGers don't know how much a certain skill will be utilised throughout a game.

Exactly, I'm a huge RPG player, and thus, should have the knowledge needed to understand the mechanics.
Yet, in Oblivion, I foolishly picked Conjuration, thinking I could summon a legion of monsters for my fights, little did I know I could only summon 1.

I also picked Athletics and Acrobatics, due to their usefulness in table top games.
What a waste that was..

 

[Windexglow]

I think the bigger problem is from no pain no gain area - when everything is handed to you, you just don't have as much fun.

The more I hear about skyrim the more I think it'll be a pathetically easy game, which aren't fun for me.

 

[Vibhor]

Exactly, I'm a huge RPG player, and thus, should have the knowledge needed to understand the mechanics.
Yet, in Oblivion, I foolishly picked Conjuration, thinking I could summon a legion of monsters for my fights, little did I know I could only summon 1.

I also picked Athletics and Acrobatics, due to their usefulness in table top games.
What a waste that was..

You do know that it is more of an issue of lacking stuff as opposed to... y'know having the skills at all.

 

[Harbinger_]

I hope they give you the ability to forget useless and obsolete spells. I can't begin to describe the frustration of having to scroll through my repository of death for the "Kill everything in a 2 mile radius spell."

 

[Ranorak]

Exactly, I'm a huge RPG player, and thus, should have the knowledge needed to understand the mechanics.
Yet, in Oblivion, I foolishly picked Conjuration, thinking I could summon a legion of monsters for my fights, little did I know I could only summon 1.

I also picked Athletics and Acrobatics, due to their usefulness in table top games.
What a waste that was..

You do know that it is more of an issue of lacking stuff as opposed to... y'know having the skills at all.

Athletics and Acrobatics were pointless skills, not only did they make leveling up a pain in the ass for most builds, they were also pointless because no one would actually think, lets make a slow character. They featured something that was generally useful, but poorly executed, so they got canned for Skyrym. Great.

Hand-to-hand was a nice little option for when you finished the game and wanted to give yourself a nice little penelty, no Enchantments, no increase in damage.

Thus those skills get removed.
As for the Conjuration, the new system doesn't make you pick skill before hand, so I don't have to gamble if Conjuration is what I think it is. I don't have to curse myself for realizing that after 10 hours, a mage/fighter style character just didn't work properly in Morrowind.

The argument was that veteran RPG players would know what a summoner build is, they would know what Athletics would do. But I said that this pre-knowledge can very easy backfire if you have expectations and they aren't met.

 

[cefm]

This will hopefully be a good thing, because the Oblivion system for skills/leveling was spitefully obtuse. If you followed the directions you'd end up with a terrible build for playing the way you actually wanted to. It would work a little while but as the enemies leveled up you'd end up under-powered simply because of the crappy way the level-up stat-increase design was done. In order to max out your stat gains at level-up you had to actually delay leveling up by playing in a counter-intuitive way that was contrary to what you'd built your character to do. It was a mess. I'm all for complexity but only if it leads to customizeable choices. Oblivion's complexity was just an incomprehensible mess where the beginning player had absolutely no idea what they were doing and would waste a TON of time.

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

I still think Skyrim will be my new favourite game for a long, long time.

I will miss the Hand-to-Hand and Acrobatics skills, though.

Are there general perks in addition to the skill tree ones? Because if they had something like backflips, hand-to-hand take-downs, or maybe monster summoning as perks for people with a few skills at the right place (for example, if you're an expert in Light Armour, and a journeyman in something like Blade, Sneak, or Marksman, you'd get the ability to flip around when in light armour).

 

[BodomBeachChild]

So, the simplest of all The Elder Scroll games confused the fuck outta people. Alright.

 

[Vibhor]

Athletics and Acrobatics were pointless skills, not only did they make leveling up a pain in the ass for most builds, they were also pointless because no one would actually think, lets make a slow character. They featured something that was generally useful, but poorly executed, so they got canned for Skyrym. Great.

You can no longer run faster than others and jump super high. Suddenly all the walking becomes useless as there is no progression.

Hand-to-hand was a nice little option for when you finished the game and wanted to give yourself a nice little penelty, no Enchantments, no increase in damage.

You still don't state the reason they got removed.
Daggerfall did hand to hand best. It did increasing damage per level. The hand could punch any type of enemy(enemies had no resistance to hand as it did not have material) it was economical considering it didn't break. It was a perfectly good secondary weapon considering it was better than most of the weapons in the beginning and was pretty useful when you forgot your dwarven sword and were fighting against an imp or ghost.

As for the Conjuration, the new system doesn't make you pick skill before hand, so I don't have to gamble if Conjuration is what I think it is. I don't have to curse myself for realizing that after 10 hours, a mage/fighter style character just didn't work properly in Morrowind.

What? A mage/fighter style character was one of the best builds. It allowed you to use all resources you had and quickly finish high level enemies.

The argument was that veteran RPG players would know what a summoner build is, they would know what Athletics would do. But I said that this pre-knowledge can very easy backfire if you have expectations and they aren't met.

So this last paragraph means if the skills are not well explained then it could cause shitstorm right? Well thats why manuals and tutorials exist. There is a reason why every elder scrolls game forces you to play the tut on every playthrough

 

[saito82]

Not sure if it is just me but I am confused as to why they think their system was to confusing for most players...Oblivion, hell even Morrowind, were very easy systems to understand. I mean what are people confused about? Long Blade skill means you can use long bladed weapons well, hand to hand is hand to hand combat, stealth is stealth. What was so hard about understanding what those skills would impact?

 

[Michael K]

Wouldn't it just be better to visually remove all the numbers and keep them hidden? If you want to be sword-guy, just pick up a sword and start hacking. You'll get buff and better at it while you're doing that.

And any mages out there should just study and use the spells they want.

Just give my swordwielding ability an invisible xp bar.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

In my view I think they have chosen sensible things to remove.

Athletics for example, like 97% of people are going to run everywhere when not stealthing. It was a pointless skill. I have also heard they have removed a spell tree mysticism? I think. Which they found that nobody really used so they incorporated it into another spell tree.

I think they are making sensible choice and cutting out the dead bits of the game system.

In my eyes the removal of 'the create a spell' system is a good thing becuase people just used it to be cheesy. It was also very mathmatical and to me maths -//- magic. I'm okay for the dnd sytem to be doing its stuff backstage but for maths to be in your face making your fireballs is just nasty to me.

If the game is rubbish then everyone complain after it is released until then we will just wait and see

PS: Putting streamlining in the title of this thread is probably just asking for rage lol.