Skyrim Streamlining Removes Confusion, Says Bethesda

[Mad World]

I was never confused. Sounds like an excuse to dumb down the game.

 

[scw55]

I dislike games where you level up and you have lines and lines of skill to level up and you think, what the **** does this do? Will I get penalised if I choose wrong? Is this pointless? I don't know. I'll pick auto-assign and prey that I learn exactly what these stats do.

I don't like this.

I throughly enjoy pouring over class builds (ie Talent Trees) but, badly laid out ones/daughnting stat choices really put me off. I want to have fun, not creat a mental spreadsheet in my mind. I prefer logic desition not complex formulai or what not.

I havn't enjoy any Elder Scrolls games yet due to the First Person view and general ambiguity of the aim of the game. I hope Skyrim is a game I enjoy while it does not piss off the existing faithful playerbase. I want to enjoy what they enjoy, not enjoy what they hate.

 

[Disturbed-Hell]

...
For Skyrim, Bethesda has reduced the number of statistics and eliminated certain skills
...

Bleh, I hate it when perfectly easy to understand mechanics get dumbed down.

On the other hand, it's things like this that the inevitably oversized modding community is for.

P.S. I know full well that they said that they wheren't dumbing it down, but it feels like they are.

 

[Joe Deadman]

While I can see it being less confusing I still can't get over them removing unarmed, I mean how confusing is beating on things with your fists?

Also I hope they still have some kind of modification when it comes to running speed somewhere in the new perks system.

 

[Zydrate]

I havn't enjoy any Elder Scrolls games yet due to the First Person view and general ambiguity of the aim of the game. I hope Skyrim is a game I enjoy

...You know TEs is going to be First person, right?
If you don't like the games, why do you even continue to try playing them?

 

[Continuity]

Well lets wait and see what they have actually done shall we... after all at this point all we have to go on is what bethesda is saying... not many developers will actually come out and admit that they're making a game worse for their core fan base.

I am concerned though, eveytime a developer comes out with positive statements about "streamlining" my they've-fuck-it-up-o-meter starts to twitch.

And lets face it, TES has always been far from perfect in the character creation department anyway, in fact its been one of my main complaints about the TES games over the years, just how utterly and breathtakingly, mind-bendingly awful character leveling is handled.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

So they're trying to appeal to the instant gratification slack jawed moron demographic eh?

 

[Laxman9292]

previous Bethesda games had asked players to make choices on skills and classes before they had proper understanding of what they did

...except that the target audience of this game, by which I mean RPG fans, already know and understand the systems involved in an RPG. That's the beauty of creating a game in this style is that you can have the target audience be people who undestand and are experienced with the material already; you do not introduce new gamers to an RPG to start with.

Yeah! Fuck new players who might want to join the fun! I say if you haven't played TES since Arena then fuck you, you don't deserve Skyrim! Go play something more your speed like Asteroids you simpletons.
/sarcasm

Seriously dude? What kind of sense does it make to not try to market your product to a bigger audience? Besides, even though we know what skills affect what how do you have any idea on how well they work in the game? What if the terrain is more suited for long distance sniping and you chose blunt, then you sir, get to eat shit while you get covered in arrows while hiking over to the enemy. Maybe the enemies behave in a certain way that isn't the same as the way you have played before? Your post makes no sense, it is illogical to expect you to know what style you want to play before the game even begins.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I always like having more choices. But they're absolutely right about Oblivion forcing you to choose your skills before you have any idea what real impact they'll have. I think I created 3 characters before I had one with a mix I was happy with.

Yes, I too forgot that the tutorial mission that took 30 minutes to complete and introduced you to all the skills and even allowed to respec your character before you started the game proper, just in case you didn't like how your character played.

The streamlining is a wasted effort.

 

[EHKOS]

previous Bethesda games had asked players to make choices on skills and classes before they had proper understanding of what they did

...except that the target audience of this game, by which I mean RPG fans, already know and understand the systems involved in an RPG. That's the beauty of creating a game in this style is that you can have the target audience be people who undestand and are experienced with the material already; you do not introduce new gamers to an RPG to start with.

Edit:

I quite like having complex systems in my RPG's. Hence why i enjoy games like the NWN series (which tbh isn't that complicated but still a hell of a lot more so then oblivion was)

Luckily I have other stuff to contribute, so I am able to just say 'This.'

Also, your avatar is hypnotic

This.

We are comming into the game with full knowledge of what kind of loadout we need. Buff to Lockpick, one or two schools of magic, and the weapon of our choice. (longswords etc.) I never used this phrase before and am hesitant to use it now but this is "dumbing down" if I ever heard of it.

 

[imnot]

I always like having more choices. But they're absolutely right about Oblivion forcing you to choose your skills before you have any idea what real impact they'll have. I think I created 3 characters before I had one with a mix I was happy with.

Yes, I too forgot that the tutorial mission that took 30 minutes to complete and introduced you to all the skills and even allowed to respec your character before you started the game proper, just in case you didn't like how your character played.

The streamlining is a wasted effort.

To be fair 30 mins is not really enough time to 'explore' your skill choices, especially seeing as few of them where really used in it.

 

[dragongit]

It's alwaysa possibility, but I recall Bethesda also saying that the PS3 and 360 would be more compatable to use mods, so I'm not sure which would be more likely. Of any company Bethesda has been open to the Modding community. They still release their DLC, which we gobble up, and the community creates mods that not only allow the games to live longer, but breath interest into new players. I'm sure Oblivion still sells decently on Steam.

 

[EHKOS]

previous Bethesda games had asked players to make choices on skills and classes before they had proper understanding of what they did

...except that the target audience of this game, by which I mean RPG fans, already know and understand the systems involved in an RPG. That's the beauty of creating a game in this style is that you can have the target audience be people who undestand and are experienced with the material already; you do not introduce new gamers to an RPG to start with.

Yeah! Fuck new players who might want to join the fun! I say if you haven't played TES since Arena then fuck you, you don't deserve Skyrim! Go play something more your speed like Asteroids you simpletons.
/sarcasm

Seriously dude? What kind of sense does it make to not try to market your product to a bigger audience? Besides, even though we know what skills affect what how do you have any idea on how well they work in the game? What if the terrain is more suited for long distance sniping and you chose blunt, then you sir, get to eat shit while you get covered in arrows while hiking over to the enemy. Maybe the enemies behave in a certain way that isn't the same as the way you have played before? Your post makes no sense, it is illogical to expect you to know what style you want to play before the game even begins.

...Except this is Bethesda, and it is the fifth (seventh)in the series. In every game since Morrowind Lockpick has been my greatest asset. Transitioning from TES to Fallout the stats were almost as important and needed as they were in TES. I made a perfect character in NV because I knew Bethesda likes putting 75 lockpick boxes at the end of long dungeons, that the combat is suited for run and gun, that medicine should be buffed to conserve stimpaks, and that you can usually choose Science OR lockpick if you want to get through the story.

For new people it still isn't very difficult to figure out. The stats are mostly self explanatory (explosives...huh wonder what this does)and for the things like CON they can LEARN LIKE THE REST OF US DID. Or read the manual.
EDIT: We came into the series not knowing what to do. The old school RPGs were tough as fuck. We learned by playing.

 

[XHolySmokesX]

I don't see what the fuss is all about, when i heard that beth had descided to take out the classes and change progression so you can basically play however you want, i was incredibly delighted.

I made so many new characters in oblivion that i got bored of the start of the game, but was so eager to find new stuff that i played through ours of content that i had played a million times (exageration there) just to play some stupid little quest that i missed last time.

Here here for possitive change! =D

 

[Inkidu]

...except that the target audience of this game, by which I mean RPG fans, already know and understand the systems involved in an RPG. That's the beauty of creating a game in this style is that you can have the target audience be people who undestand and are experienced with the material already; you do not introduce new gamers to an RPG to start with.

Well... except that there are a lot of kinds of RPG fans. There's the number cruncher, the meta-gamer, and so on and so forth. I'm an avid fan of RPGs and even I found myself having to start a handful of characters in Oblivion before I found the right one.

I think the trouble word you were looking for was, "Making it more accessible." Streamlining something is never a bad idea. Otherwise you end up with a lot of obtuse menus and trial-and-error game play that (at least for me) is never fun.

 

[EHKOS]

previous Bethesda games had asked players to make choices on skills and classes before they had proper understanding of what they did

...except that the target audience of this game, by which I mean RPG fans, already know and understand the systems involved in an RPG. That's the beauty of creating a game in this style is that you can have the target audience be people who undestand and are experienced with the material already; you do not introduce new gamers to an RPG to start with.

Yeah! Fuck new players who might want to join the fun! I say if you haven't played TES since Arena then fuck you, you don't deserve Skyrim! Go play something more your speed like Asteroids you simpletons.
/sarcasm

Seriously dude? What kind of sense does it make to not try to market your product to a bigger audience? Besides, even though we know what skills affect what how do you have any idea on how well they work in the game? What if the terrain is more suited for long distance sniping and you chose blunt, then you sir, get to eat shit while you get covered in arrows while hiking over to the enemy. Maybe the enemies behave in a certain way that isn't the same as the way you have played before? Your post makes no sense, it is illogical to expect you to know what style you want to play before the game even begins.

...Except this is Bethesda, and it is the fifth (seventh)in the series. In every game since Morrowind Lockpick has been my greatest asset. Transitioning from TES to Fallout the stats were almost as important and needed as they were in TES. I made a perfect character in NV because I knew Bethesda likes putting 75 lockpick boxes at the end of long dungeons, that the combat is suited for run and gun, that medicine should be buffed to conserve stimpaks, and that you can usually choose Science OR lockpick if you want to get through the story.

For new people it still isn't very difficult to figure out. The stats are mostly self explanatory (explosives...huh wonder what this does)and for the things like CON they can LEARN LIKE THE REST OF US DID. Or read the manual.
EDIT: We came into the series not knowing what to do. The old school RPGs were tough as fuck. We learned by playing.

Do you have any IDEA how many people were completely alienated by Morrowind? You know, back in 2002?

People played that game for half an hour and them quit. Thank God Skyrim is fixing that - not because it hindered my experience of the game, but because it stopped the experience of others dead in its tracks. And I have no doubt that that applied to millions of other people in those 'old school RPGs' you hold so dear.

God damn it.

Then it prolly wasn't the game for them. And taking the Ayn Rand view here, who cares if other people have trouble with it? You had fun, isn't that all that matters? What we are really getting down to is that Bethesda want's a larger audience, and that can kill a games primary community.

 

[feather240]

I actually have faith in this game even with everything that seams to be going on in development. This is the company that makes twenty something page manuals for their games. Do you have any idea how fun it is to read those during installation?

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Well I think the problem is less to do with Streamlining and more to do with making some skills less crap. At the start of the game Sneak was a ridiculously weak skill until it got into the higher tiers and even then the damage bonus was still pretty bad. Do not get me started on the waste of space that was Speech and Mercantile skill lines.

 

[EHKOS]

Then it prolly wasn't the game for them. And taking the Ayn Rand view here, who cares if other people have trouble with it? You had fun, isn't that all that matters?

Wow, selfish much...

What we are really getting down to is that Bethesda want's a larger audience...

And that's an inherently bad thing how?

Well if you didn't cut off my sentence, I would go on to explain that when changing a game for new people it can sometimes fuck with the formula of the game enough to make fans have a sense it feels different. And to spit in the face of the loyal people who have followed their games, just so they can sell a few more discs, is a a terrible thing.