Skyward Sword

[sockpuppettherapy]

Does Yahtzee normally complain about dual analog controls for FPSes? Because if anything, THOSE are decidedly poor controls compared to keyboard and mouse or (funny enough) motion controls.

Actually I thought about that a lot recently. When Sony introduced the dual analog controls with the game Ape Escape it really was a step forward. It gave you more control, the game was much more fluid and more fun. Since then, analog controls are literally indispensable. The precision and speed you can attain with them most games (platformers, beat-em-ups, driving/sports games for example) is a joy for all. Of course, FPSs should probably bre played on PC (I don't like FPSs or mouse controls personally) but it is only natural that not every technology is suited for every need. However, analog controls are proof of how technology evolves and how what's useful (analog, triggers, N-controllers (in my prediction)) stays while what isn't goes.

I'm not exactly sure "useful" as much as just simply "adopted as the norm."

Dual analogs, particular for FPSes on consoles, are a terrible idea. Specifically the second analog. Evolution being dictated by quality alone would assume that someone would have come up with a better control scheme than that (such as using a trackball for the second analog).

The point here is that Yahtzee, for whatever complaints about motion controls, is less an issue of quality and more an issue of preference. If this was an issue of quality, I'm more inclined to see why he doesn't whine about every first person perspective game that uses dual analog sticks and make a sticking point about how that representation is utterly terrible. And in this case, there's a reason: people simply got used to the idea. But even if you get used to sleeping on a turd, it still means you're sleeping on a turd.

I don't waggle the controller like a maniac trying to get it to work for any Wii game. I didn't have to do that with Twilight Princess, and I sure didn't have to do it with Skyward Sword. I also didn't experience this "one second delay" that he's been complaining about. Then again, I was using a standard def TV, so maybe that had something to do with it.

And the reality of this is, how seriously do I take this guy, or is he just getting paid to be a whining wanker and found one pet peeve that he will never grow to accept?

 

[xdiesp]

I hate to say this, but Ben's credibility goes down a notch when his contemporary interests seem only casual GTA clones and mainstream FPS.

All's good and well with having a culture of graphic adventures, add in Sands of Time and Silent Hill 2 too, but that's his infancy where everything's always gold cast. From what he plays now, however, he wouldn't be a better connoisseur than most xbox live users afraid of anything but the main cashcow franchises.

Personally I believe that you've got to take a break from the onslaught of US gaming clones once in a while and take a dive in the japanese market. There's plenty of cloning in there too, on second thought , but the batch's different at least. Shortcomings of recent Zeldas or JRPGs fall into context like that and broad generalizations lose meaning (so many jokes about JRPGs cliches, but no raised eyebrow for the western market being 90% about shooting people).

 

[Kaitengiri]

I refer you to a post I made on the original video. Namely:

"I swing my Wiimote and I get blocked. Link's arm ricochets. Mine doesn't. Mine keeps going. So I have to move my arm back to the starting position before I can re-position my arm for try #2. In doing so, I end up swinging the sword again from the wrong location.

Why would you do that instead of trying to slash from the opposite direction right away? Sure, you might get blocked, but it feels more natural.

The flying controls are painful. In the default hand position, it's very difficult to tilt down enough to dive. Wrists don't bend that way. The same goes for bomb rolling. If I want to roll a bomb, I have to move my hand position, point the Wiimote down, then flick and hope the system actually registers it as a flick, not an "I'm returning to neutral position", as it often does.

You move your whole arm down, not the wrist. Jeez, that's just plain painful to think about.

Then there's the harp. I swear I must've played the harp performance about THIRTY times. Every time I started, my hand's position was in a different place... and no matter how carefully I moved my Wiimote, Link's hand would always slide half-way back in the other direction. To clarify:

I swing right -> Link strums right
I hold my arm steady and still at the right -> Link starts strumming BACK TO THE LEFT.
My arm hasn't moved. AT ALL.

Wait, did you actually move your arm across the T.V.? Why didn't you try strumming back and forth like you really would with a harp? Or were you too busy harping about learning a new control set to notice?

How am I supposed to control a game accurately when the controls don't respond to my inputs? It's like playing DDR with a steering wheel!

That doesn't work. I've tried it. The wheel just doesn't register the same motions.

Oh yes, and the recalibration. EVERY TIME I use a B-button item (that blowing vase thing, the slingshot, flying scarab thing, etc.), when I press the B-button, the controls orient by where my Wiimote was pointing when I pressed the button... which often means Link's going to be spinning around in circles until I press Down on the D-Pad.

So you knew what the cause of it was, pointing away from the screen. . .and you never once, not once in the whole 40-60 hours of gameplay, thought to point your wiimote at the screen FIRST?

Would ANY of this happen on a traditional controller?

NO. And that's why motion controls SUCK. The End."

I think that's why you just don't even want to try. See, the problem with motion controls is that they take a little bit of this magical thing called "effort" and "care". You may not be familiar with these notions from the confines of your happy place where you've adamantly locked yourself up in. Come, venture forth into the outside world with us. It's fun. I promise.

Actually, that's not a fetch quest. That's grinding. A fetch quest IS:

"any quest where someone has told you what you need to find"

That. Go there, grab that, and bring it here. I'll give you some sort of compensation for doing so. A fetch quest: defined. How you've gotten it confused with grinding for loot drops is beyond me.

I like how you arbitrarily skipped over the one spot where I mentioned that calling these fetch quests was like calling Mario an RPG because technically you couldn't say I'm wrong under the same justification. That was my favorite part.

It's not even really padding

Yes it is. It's arbitrarily extending the length of a quest by adding busywork to it. Busywork, might I add, that adds no depth or comparable reward to the quest. Take the Hero's song bit where you have to swim around for the notes. Why? I've got the fully powered up Master Sword already. Why do I have to prove myself AGAIN? It's not like I had to find lost items. The Water Dragon specifically scatters the notes ON PURPOSE just to waste your time. PADDING. Because the game has nothing else to do but make you faff about, to borrow a phrase...

Oh no! A quest is arbitrarily extending the length of gameplay with actual WORK!? Why would I want this? Why can't the puzzle just be solved FOR me? Why do I have to PLAY the game? You know what else is bullshit in this game? DOORS. Why are all the damn doors locked. Why can't they just be UNLOCKED for me? I mean, it's just arbitrary and extending the length of gameplay superficially. Grrrr, Nintendo! How dare you make me solve things!

Nope. See above. Drastic change? Yes. New baddies? No. New areas? No. This game is an exercise in retreading.

Metroid is an example of retreading. And I love every second of it because I get to find the things I missed out on earlier and I get new enemies and I have fun. What's your excuse?

Utterly useless that it is...

Now WAIT just a sec-

...Oh, I'm not saying it's not functional. It is.

. . .Then why are you even still talking about it?

Having to hike all the way back to another area for one minor item that I won't ever use again IS padding. It adds no fun to the game. Most egregiously, if I come across an item I know I'm going to need later, I often CAN'T pick it up until the game tells me I have to go ALL THE WAY BACK to pick it up[. . .skiiiiiiiiiiiiip. . .]hoose my landing area, Fi, Thank you, sit through the falling animation, walk to the area I left five minutes ago, and complete the quest. No reward beyond being allowed to continue going forward.

five minutes

five

You DO understand the point of padding is generally to add in meaningful game time, like five HOURS right? Anyone remember the upside down portion of Castlevania Symphony of the Night? Or even Castlevania 2 where you had to grind hearts to purchase equipment? Anyone?

Zelda is abound as the game masterfully places you at the start of the maze you need to be at

I just love this quote. It's ridiculous and nonsensical. Zelda is abound... with what? As? That doesn't follow "abound". And the game is masterful at putting you at the beginning of mazes? Woo-hoo! What a triumph! They can put you at "START". How clever of them!

I love how you misquoted me purposefully and then made a fuss about it. This is what I said.

where it is AND IN THIS ASPECT ZELDA IS ABOUND as the game masterfully places you at the start of the maze you need to be at with subtle clues

I will however give to you the fact that it is indeed missing a comma due to a style I implemented explained a point further down.

Oh, wait, there was something else in there, wasn't there? Right right.

Yes, Zelda IS deceptively creative at placing you at the beginning of long winding labyrinths without most people noticing. I've noticed often that people praise A Link to the Past for being so exploration based, but if you start up a game, you'll notice that it's actually just a really long linear path that has many branching elements in it that gives the illusion of freedom where there is none. Take for example the middle of the game, the start of the Dark World section. You start on top of the Pyramid of Power and must explore from there. If you go north, you'll find your path is blocked by a giant rock, and a hookshot puzzle. If you go to the south, your path is blocked by the mallet pegs that prevent you from traveling to the next area. So your ONLY option is to go up to the East Palace counterpart and solve the dungeon. When you get out, the area to the South is open up to you, but Kakariko is blocked off, and so is the desert, so you only have the option of exploring the area around your house, the lake, and of course, going to the next dungeon, cause dungeon 5 in the lake is off limits, and most people on their first try probably haven't found the flippers yet. Then when you beat THAT dungeon and get the hookshot, your choices no include solving the hookshot puzzle, you can not jettison yourself across the formerly inaccessible hookshot puzzle and continue on to. . .the Lost woods and Kakariko village. And at that point, you have the ability to do a minor sequence break by skipping the Lost Woods and going straight for dungeon 4, but then what's the point? All you've done is skipped ONE dungeon. And you might be able to grab the flute and skip over dungeon five, but all you've done is a minor sequence break because once you get to Kakariko village, every area save death mountain is explored. Twice.

Really, it's not so much different from Skyward Sword, because you're exploring areas to find dungeons and items, but the difference is, they separated the areas cleanly so now you can't spend 10 hours. . .oh, wait, I already MADE this metaphor. Wow, looks like everything kinda makes sense doesn't it?

Quote: You, in the future. You said:

No! It DOESN'T MAKE SENSE HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

In the words of Geese, "PREDICTABRE"

Are you still defending Zelda? So it's masterfully linear... which is a negative holdover... from another unrelated genre? Whaaa?

Sorry, I ACTUALLY meant that the word "Linear" is a hold over from gaming critic's arsenal of made up marketing buzz words on loan from the FPS industry, not that ZELDA is bad for being linear. Because honestly, it isn't. Some of the best games are completely one direction, no branching at all. Some gameplay design is actually created around the idea of a player pushing through from one direction and one direction only. It's actually pretty masterful when witnessed in action. Example: Castlevania III, Mega Man X, Contra 3, etc.

I don't know anyone who's made this complaint. Really. Who are you arguing against here? Yourself, apparently...

Metaphor isn't your strong suit, is it?

Ok, I've been nice about this so far, but GRAMMAR. Are you six years old? Do you know what a run-on sentence is? Jesus...

Okay, I apologize deeply for this. See, when I wrote this, I decided to do it in Zero punctuation style and try to make as many sentences run on as long as I possibly could without anybody noticing or being none-the-wise. But sadly, I cannot compete with Yahtzee as I'm sure his punctuation-deleting skills are so far advanced he doesn't even capitalize or use apostrophes, and that has nothing to do with run on sentences!

I'll leave the clever grammar and snarky wit to the professional from now on, I promise! And I might be willing to cut Yahtzee a little bit of slack too.

Anyway: So it's a rare moment when she interrupts... except when it happens entering a new area? So either you're admitting that it happens a lot or that there aren't that many new areas. Either way, your statement is backfiring again.

Fi is a horrible, unnecessary character. She adds nothing to the game. In fact, the game would be VASTLY improved if she were removed. Instead of her doing the exposition when you get a new powerup (that I always ignore anyway), just have some mystical voice of the sacred flame or whatever do the explaining. Let the rest of the game do the explaining naturally through character dialogue... WHICH IT DOES ANYWAY. Fi just REPEATS everything you just heard. She provides NO new information.

Oh, she does talk often, but what I meant with the entering room comment is that she often only pops up when you're otherwise not engaged with the game, like when you enter a room and there's that cutscene where it pans over the entire room? Or at the end of conversations with other characters. And yeah, she repeats other people's conversations. . .in summery. And then she adds new info on top of that. It rarely even takes more than one text box, maybe even two, to summarize everything.

Master, we have to do what this guy said and FIND THE KEY.

I hope you don't mind, but I believe the keys will be easier to find with this ability I've just now given you to make your quest easier. If you want it that is. And also, you should search the area over there, because that's where they most likely are.

Oh no, 2, 3 more text boxes, one a summery and two are new info about abilities I've just gained, on top of a dialogue heavy game in the middle of a cutscene with a character whom I've been talking with? What. Ever. Shall. I. Do.

Five unnecessary, game-interrupting seconds. EVERY TIME.

game-interrupting seconds.

game-interrupting

You literally don't even stop moving. Not only is that statement a lie, it also shows that you're stretching for things.

Because you can just hit A and *poof* there goes the text with Navi. It doesn't gradually scroll across the screen at glacial speed like it does with Fi.

I actually meant that Fi is a gentle sounding tone that can be quite easily ignored especially if you turn off the visual for the wiimote symbol on the gamescreen. Navi makes loud annoying sounds that force your attention to her, has a BIG flashing button, and literally kidnaps your C^ button, which you use to look around the room with and is actually a big fucking deal considering, and essentially forces you, at some point in time, to listen to her.

I can ignore Fi if I want to because I don't have to press her button except when absolutely necessary.

Except he hit the nail on the head with this one. You can't write off his points because you can overlook them or because you don't want to acknowledge them. He's not raging at Zelda without warrant. He's giving it the thrashing it DESERVES. This game is just not very good. Get over it. If you can and you still enjoy it, more power to you.

No, he didn't. All he did was take some MINOR and NONEXISTENT grievances with the game, then exaggerated them for a very poor comedic effect. I mean, look, there's problems with the game that CAN'T be overlooked. Real legitimate problems in design choice on the creators part and should be improved upon in sequels and even other games. For example:

--The Bird never gets a name, and in fact, and entire early portion of the story is devoted to the game telling you how special this bird is. The central mechanic for which this game is named after all stems from the bird and the theme of the sky and flying, but it plays such a minor part once you get to the land that it's completely forgotten about and ignored in favor for the story of genesis in the land of Hyrule. The only reason the bird was special and marked as such was to shoehorn in the design of the Hylian Shield as a sort of beginning tale.
--Half of the items are never utilized properly in a setting I've come to expect from a Zelda game and it's a huge issue. The whip is never used outside of the dungeon it's found except in one or two minor puzzles designed to make you remember it was "there", and doesn't even stun enemies, let alone do any damage to them. It could have been combined with the Clawshots and made one GOOD item instead of one mediocre item and one "I WISH THIS WAS SO MUCH BETTER" item. The same problem was had all over as the only useful items were the bombs and arrows. There was no need for the slingshot except as a tool for situations revolving around "I don't wanna give the players the bow and arrows yet cause it's too powerful. . .but I really want a ranged-attack weapon puzzle here. So let's give them this." Everything was designed around the Sword play which made for a fun time, yeah, but the items could have all just been upgrades in power and nobody would have noticed.
--Time traveling plots confuse and confound many players and upset an already delicate timeline issue within the series, and doesn't established set rules, as for some reason, this game wasn't using the 4th and 5th dimensions like the timeline of Ocarina of Time was using.
--Two of the hearts were only obtainable by holding onto items, which creates a very poorly executed illusion of "Power for trading something useful" (in this case, pouch slots).
--The end game felt like it was going to continue on more, but by the time I got there, all the sidequests were done, and I felt like there was so much more that could have been done with that. They left a lot of potential space unused in the endgame, and so many more things could have been created and resolved by the time I started the last temple to the Point of No Return before the last boss.

Really, I mean, this is all off the top of my head, and I'd easily give this game an A grade.

But this review?

--"Oh, I hate the controls, so therefore they suck."
--"Man, I hate having to read in this game."
--"What? Why do I have to PLAY this game? This sucks."
--"Aw, c'mon, man, I NEED those precious five minutes back! ARGH!"

I don't mind critizism to my new favorite game, but at least come up with something that actually have value other then telling the creators of the game "I don't want to have to apply myself to anything".

First of all, "childish antiques"? Ha.

Obviously, I refer to the the classic masterpieces of youth, such as "Scribble-on-the-fridge" -Age 3, and other such works as "Other scribble marking a slight increase in the hand-eye-coordination skill" -Age 3 again.

Second, he didn't turn it into a debate: the fanboys (and girls, as the case may be) did. He gave Skyward Sword no special treatment and treated it the same as every other game he reviews. And that'll always set off the fanboys...

If by same treatment, you mean how he didn't even try playing the game and just nitpicked at anything that caught his immediate eye, then yes, probably. If you mean that he applied himself and tried his best to match what the game was expecting out of him, then I have some bad news for you.

That's just not true. You know how I know? I felt the same way about Skyward Sword five hours in. And I paid full price for the game. I have nothing to gain from "hating on" the game. I expected a joyous romp through Hyrule... instead, I got this bland, samey mess. Go ahead and disagree with Yahtzee if you feel you must... but don't call him a liar. You've not disproved a single one of his points. You attempted to spin them in a more positive light, yes... but you've not proven he fabricated their existence. Your entire post, like Skyward Sword, has been a massive waste of time for everyone who has had to slog their way through it. And also like Skyward Sword, it could've been done better and shorter, too...

Well excuuuuuuuse me, princess.

 

[Snotnarok]

I really don't get the craze over Zelda either. I grew up when Ocarina of Time came out and I watched my cousin play it and I tried and got decently far and honestly I wasn't enjoying any of it. To this very day I hear fans say how amazing it is, I just don't see it.

You're a hero questing to save the world, okay great, but take one look at the residents of Hyrule and tell me they're worth saving in the game. They're all goofy, mindless or just plain dumb besides Malon (farm girl), and a few select others. The world isn't WORTH saving, I wanted to see the lands cleansed, take the farm girl join Gannon and rule. Even at the time I felt no connection with the game.

Twilight Princess was a WHOLE different story, the characters had feelings, had character and you felt connected and real progress in Link becoming stronger and Midna just being a good support character.

Other Zelda games besides TP I just never got behind, I hear lots of praise, I played them when they came out and just, nothing. Though Windwaker did have a really pretty style to it.

 

[DarthSka]

Skyward Sword

Prove me wrong, fans.

Read Full Article

I shall!

*Big Inhale

I can't because it's your opinion which you're completely entitled to as anyone else is and I absolutely loved the game and it has become my new favorite game of all time which isn't really that surprising since the Zelda series is my favorite game series of all time not saying that others aren't good god forbid as I have enjoyed many hours on other games but I really felt that this one blew me away with almost everything especially the art style and the motion controls which I really don't see why some have been saying they're unresponsive as they have worked perfectly for me and the art style just really clicked with me and while I almost completely disagree with you except for the concept of Fi being annoying I still greatly enjoy you and your show and look forward to future episodes as well as enjoying past ones.

Whoo, hold on, gotta catch my breath...............so did you get all that?

 

[DarthFennec]

So the controls worked properly MOST of the time. If you had been using a standard controller, they would have worked ALL of the time.

I was never comparing it to a standard controller. All I said was that they worked great 90% of the time, which is pretty much unheard of for a Wii game. Even though they didn't work as well as they might have if we were using something other than a Wiimote, Skyward Sword is still some of the best and most fluid use of the Wiimote I've ever seen. And I think that's a positive.

Ok, well people who are complaining about the controls probably are comparing it to standard controllers and let's face it, the Wii Mote is inferior to standard controllers. Ever try playing with the sun shining in?

I'm not necessarily saying it isn't inferior. I'm just saying Nintendo did a hell of a good job given the restrictions they had previously put on themselves.

 

[Steampunk Viking]

You're pretty much spot on with Skyward Sword Yahtzee, but I still insist that it's one of the best Zelda games, and the exploration is no where near as bad as you make it out to be... granted I would have liked a more immersive world though. Plus I actually enjoyed the motion controls, made me feel more a part of the game and it's not as irresponsive as you say (at least, not for me).

Fi is annoying, yes, I can't defend that, I did want to stab her in the face every 5 minutes for telling me how to dowse for items for the 50th time, telling me I'm low on hearts, that the obvious is occuring etc.

But hang on... one thing about this article does make me wonder!

I too loved Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, but to say you like them and then slam into Skyward Sword for pointless repition? Did your versions miss out the Tingle Quest in WW, where you had to have more rupees than you could physically carry to buy mandatory maps, causing you to hunt for 200 rupess after each map? Or the Wolf Sections in TP, where you had to collect tears just to continue the game? If not, isn't slamming Skyward Sword for pointless repitition just a little hypocritical?

And if your versions did miss them out... can I borrow them?

 

[Stavros Dimou]

While it is impossible for the controls to be as bad as Yahtzee/GameSpot/etc claim and still have the majority of players/reviewers say they work near flawlessly, it's entirely possible for the controls to work near flawlessly but have a handful of players that merely suck at using them and blame the controls and not the operator. I don't think it's impossible to believe that there are a number of gamers who lack the physical reflexes/hand-eye coordination to be successful with motion controls.

Yes, that's right, I'm going there. It's the only explanation that reconciles the differences other than claiming that the majority is simply lying about their experiences.

Wow. So people that have played shooters and platforms successfully on other systems now "lack the physical reflexes/hand-eye coordination" to play wii games. That is probably the most absurd explaination I've ever heard.

I have a different theory: You have cognitive disonance and are ready to excuse and ignore any flaw because it's easier than admitting your tribe is not the best that's out there.

I'm not just talking out of my ass. I bought into the excitement for Master of Orion 3, a game now universally considered so bad it killed the franchise. I bought the game on release and for 2-3 weeks I was convinced that it was the greatest game of all time. Eventually, the flaws were so obvious I just couldn't ignore them (or more accurately, I stopped playing for a while and realized I had absolutely no desire to start playing again).

Now, MoO3 is an undead fetus next to Skyward Sword, so that's not the comparison I'm trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is that the human brain will go to great lengths to justify, excuse, and ignore any fact that contradicts what it has beforehand established as a fundamental truth.

Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolution," explores the phenomenon in greater detail, but it's the basis for why people hold onto opinions that in hindsight seem irrational. It's why a man as brilliant as Einstein could refuse to accept Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle because "God does not play dice."

You've missed the point by a wide margin. My point is that it's impossible for the controls to work (as claimed by about 90% of reviews) and to also not work as claimed by the others. There are only two two explanations 1) one of the groups is lying (tinfoil hat) or 2) that they do work but some subset of players will fail at using them. It's perfectly reasonable to criticize the decision to use controls that some won't excel at, but to claim they don't work or are laggy is dishonest. There's no feasible explanation to how I (or IGN, or Edge, or Eurogamer, etc) played for 40 hours and believe the controls work if that is truly not the case.

I think you fail to understand that the criteria for "working" will very case by case. Some people are just more demanding. For example, when something calls itself and claims to give you "control" I do not expect it to make me compromise on what was supposed to already be established. If a device is designed to let me control something, I expect it be effective at giving me the maximum amount of control possible. If however, it does not give me 100% control, it is defective and has failed in it's only purpose.

I suppose a lot of people are not as stringent as me in their demands of a controller, yet I suspect it is in part due to their familiarity to previous incarnations of faulty controlling devices

And I agree with what that other guy said. Cognitive dissonance, you have it.

Gamecube controller faulty ?
No man,it's been my best controller ever, and believe me I have grabbed many on my hands.
Nintendo64's controller was good when I was a kid,but now that I'm a grown up my hands doesn't fit in the narrow spaces between the 3 elongated parts of it.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

Without exaggerating I can name about 20 or 30 flaws in Skyward Sword including some and even more of what Yahtzee mentioned.

Name them.

The "flaws" that Mr. Crosshaw mentioned aren't flaws at all, because I did not notice them and they did not hinder my enjoyment in any way whatsoever.

If you didn't notice them, that doesn't mean that they don't exist. It just means you didn't notice them, or didn't consider them to be flaws. Because you're a different person. Who has different opinions. That are different from Yahtzee's. Which are also different. Because you're different people.

Having a different opinion is one thing, but saying nothing but the meanest and cruelest insults imaginable is another.

There's a common saying where I come from, it goes something like: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." Constructive criticism is one thing, but spewing hatred and bile is another thing entirely, and it certainly isn't comedy.

Imagine that I verbally ripped everything you hold dear to shreds. How exactly would anyone in their right mind find that funny?

Um, he's a critic and a comedian, it's kind of his job. Also, is he not allowed to dislike certain things in games just because you don't dislike them?

 

[lord.jeff]

Isn't the fact that you can point out all these differences to explain why Wind Waker is a better game then Skyward Sword proof that the formula is changing from you game to the next?

 

[Dragon_Nexus]

I agreed with the review.
I love Zelda and I count Twilight Princess as my favourite (And I played it well after OoT which I believe was my first Zelda game. My fave 2D Zelda game is Link's Awakening because there hasn't been a Zelda game with an ending so bittersweet since.)

I could stand the "Here we go again" style gameplay quite easilly because Nintendo always managed to find ways to make it interesting - usually involving an engaging story with a plot that carried some weight to it. It felt like you were chipping away at the evil plans of a villain just to find the villain hadn't even noticed you. Oh but now he has and he's gonna fuck yo shit up, dawg.
Skyward Sword didn't seem to have that, it was just you running after Zelda blindly not really knowing what was going on and just waiting for the game to bloody well explain it. It felt like I should have been playing as Zelda most of the way through.

And my god Fi is pointless. I knew right from the beginning that regardless of who you got as an assistant, it wouldn't top Midna. She had a brilliant character arc that helped you really connect with her and you enjoyed having her with you by the end. And saying goodbye felt very much like a loss. Nintendo wasn't going to beat that so I didn't go in expecting them to manage it. What I didn't anticipate was that they weren't even going to bloody try. People say Navi's annoying, but she at least had a personality. She was plucky and was always there to help you (vocally). Fi is just a robot. A completely boring, pointless and redundant buzzing in your ear and it was so disappointing. I expected nothing and I got less. I thought "Ah, they'll do the typical character arc where she slowly wakes up to emotions then becomes a formidible companion, yeah?" but after 3 dungeons she was still spouting the same pathetic bland dialogue so I just gave up on her.

On a far more personal note, I didn't enjoy Wind Waker at first. I sort of bought into the "Where are the green fields?" argument until it clicked. I got it. You got a sense of freedom they you hadn't had before. You go and sail places, you go exploring. Hey there's an island over there! Let's see what's on it! The only thing I thought they could do to improve on that was set it in my favourite place - the sky. I thought that's what we were going to get. Wind Waker in the sky. But...what the hell, Nintendo? You give us a huge sky full of, well, fuck all! I spent 20 minutes flying around (on a bird who is given all the hype of an important character but is simply a little go kart to ride on - at least Link's boat had a chat with you.) visiting this island and that island only to find rocks and grass and gave up on the whole idea of exploration.

On relfection though, Skyward Sword managed to do something that no other Zelda game has done to date.
It disappointed me.

 

[Mahoshonen]

While it is impossible for the controls to be as bad as Yahtzee/GameSpot/etc claim and still have the majority of players/reviewers say they work near flawlessly, it's entirely possible for the controls to work near flawlessly but have a handful of players that merely suck at using them and blame the controls and not the operator. I don't think it's impossible to believe that there are a number of gamers who lack the physical reflexes/hand-eye coordination to be successful with motion controls.

Yes, that's right, I'm going there. It's the only explanation that reconciles the differences other than claiming that the majority is simply lying about their experiences.

Wow. So people that have played shooters and platforms successfully on other systems now "lack the physical reflexes/hand-eye coordination" to play wii games. That is probably the most absurd explaination I've ever heard.

I have a different theory: You have cognitive disonance and are ready to excuse and ignore any flaw because it's easier than admitting your tribe is not the best that's out there.

I'm not just talking out of my ass. I bought into the excitement for Master of Orion 3, a game now universally considered so bad it killed the franchise. I bought the game on release and for 2-3 weeks I was convinced that it was the greatest game of all time. Eventually, the flaws were so obvious I just couldn't ignore them (or more accurately, I stopped playing for a while and realized I had absolutely no desire to start playing again).

Now, MoO3 is an undead fetus next to Skyward Sword, so that's not the comparison I'm trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is that the human brain will go to great lengths to justify, excuse, and ignore any fact that contradicts what it has beforehand established as a fundamental truth.

Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolution," explores the phenomenon in greater detail, but it's the basis for why people hold onto opinions that in hindsight seem irrational. It's why a man as brilliant as Einstein could refuse to accept Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle because "God does not play dice."

You've missed the point by a wide margin. My point is that it's impossible for the controls to work (as claimed by about 90% of reviews) and to also not work as claimed by the others. There are only two two explanations 1) one of the groups is lying (tinfoil hat) or 2) that they do work but some subset of players will fail at using them. It's perfectly reasonable to criticize the decision to use controls that some won't excel at, but to claim they don't work or are laggy is dishonest. There's no feasible explanation to how I (or IGN, or Edge, or Eurogamer, etc) played for 40 hours and believe the controls work if that is truly not the case.

You actually believe that most magazine or e-site reviewers are anything besides shills for large publishers and will almost never give their games a less-than-great review unless the game is truely awful?

If you answer yes, I would like to remind you that there is a Game Of The Year edition of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.

 

[Mahoshonen]

As for why "9/10" players think the controls work fine, you do realize that number was pulled out of your ass. The internet is a wonderful thing, but it has a tendency to isolate people into like-minded groups. But let's assume that your "9/10" is correct. That doesn't correlate to the controls being good, because the sample population are people who bought this game and played it. Given that it has been 5 years since the wii was release, that means a lot of people aren't playing the game because they've already decided that the wii isn't a good system or have no interest in playing a Zelda game (I know that must rock your world view).

But even setting all that aside, saying "Most people believe X is true, ergo X is true" is a terrible arguement. See: Nazi Germany.

/godwin.

FAKE EDIT: If that example so offends you, then the notion that Jerry Sandusky is a saint. Up until this November, almost everyone who knew about Sandusky believed that (or convinced themselves enough to ignore evidence to the contrary).