'Slut' Parade

SillyBear

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WolfThomas said:
Yes, I'm aware how naive my post sounds, but I truly believe that the only only society will progress is through idealism rather than realism.
That is just difference of opinion and that's fair enough.

WolfThomas said:
Telling women what to wear is letting the rapists win in my book, a small minority has got all women scared how to act. We need to improve society not just learn to live with it.
Be careful not to let the fact this is rape and such a social taboo skew reality though. I think my argument applies for all crimes. Let's take muggings. If I was a police officer, I should be able to tell people not to walk alone at night in dangerous areas whilst displaying wealth because you are more likely to be mugged. This is fine, but once someone suggests something similar to this in regard to rape they are automatically disregarded and called insensitive.

WolfThomas said:
But if we have to be pragmatic and of course I'd want my own mother/sister/wife/daughter to be safe, but telling them how to dress I feel isn't the right approach.
There is a time and a place for freedom of expression. That time isn't at 2 o'clock in the morning and that place isn't at the most dangerous bar in town.

I think you are slightly misunderstanding my argument. I'm not in favour of a fascist "wear this and don't wear that" mentality. I'm in favour of preaching common sense. Teaching girls that if they go out to the sleaziest bar in town and start talking to dangerous men whilst wearing next to nothing it will increase their chances of rape. This is objectively true, and I don't understand why your idealism and the idealism of the girls who are protesting seeks to get in the way of this.

If they want to be careful, they shouldn't do it. Especially not in areas that are prone to violence.

WolfThomas said:
Most rape is power based and it doesn't matter if you look like a prostitute or a nun, a scared woman will be a target. Better advice would be to suggest self defense, carrying and knowing how to use weapon if it's legal, having situational awareness and knowing what places to avoid at certain times.
This isn't necessarily true. Most rape is committed by someone the victim has been acquainted with previously and has spent the night with them. A typical rape scenario goes like this:

Girl goes out with friends. Girl leaves from her group of friends to talk to boy. Girl and boy flirt. Boy takes girl home. Boy and girl flirt some more. Boy goes to have sex with girl. Girl declines. Boy rapes girl.

The incidents of sexual assault that are completely out of the blue where strong men jump out of the bushes at 2am and ponce on a women are far less common. This particular police officer probably saw a string of 100 sexual assaults, and 80 of them involved the victim dressing promiscuously. Is he not allowed to comment on this, and to warn people about it?

To reinforce my point, I think there is a time and a place for dressing how you want. Sometimes I wear clothing that certainly wouldn't please 19th Century views on feminine etiquette. If I know I am going out to a relatively nice area with a large group of friends who I will not split up with halfway through the night, I will dress very differently to how I would if I was about to go down town to a seedy district with different circumstances.

It's about common sense. Yes, I agree with you, it's awful that we have to say this and in a perfect world females could express themselves however they want. Unfortunately this world doesn't exist and we should be allowed to freely comment on this and be realistic. Instead, all we have are a group of young women who completely misconstrue the message and go on a protest.

edit: Yikes, I'm in an internet debate. I feel unclean!
 

WolfThomas

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Dec 21, 2007
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SillyBear said:
edit: Yikes, I'm in an internet debate. I feel unclean!
Well then lets call it a day then. We've obviously got two different but still perfectly valid oppinions. Heck it's not like either of us is that arguing that rape isn't wrong.
 

brimstone1392

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So, given the number of posts here, I doubt my opinion will matter; yesterday's news, as it were. However, to those women out there reading this who are proud to be "sluts," I have only one thing to say to you - YOU ARE SELLING YOURSELF AND ANY MAN YOU CHOOSE (edit: emphasis on the choose part) TO BE WITH SHORT!!

Now, I'm about to give away (like a slut, if you will) the best kept secret of the man-play-book to pretty much any woman who is willing to listen to it. Pay attention and really let it sink in, as this is far more complex a topic than a drunken ME can do justice. To highlight this, I'm going to continue in CAPS. If you feel this means I'm yelling at you... Go with that, you idiot!


THERE IS NOTHING I, OR ANY MAN, CAN BE GIVEN THAT ISN'T INSTANTLY MADE BETTER BY SIMPLY KNOWING THAT WE'VE EARNED IT - INCLUDING (IF NOT SURPASSING ANYTHING ELSE) SEX!!!!


Let me clarify:
1. Nothing - the absence of anything/anything else... DUH!
2. Knowing - not thinking, not having convinced oneself, but truly understanding it from the depths of your soul.
3. Earned - this is where it gets tricky, and will require a more sober man to explain it in detail. That being said, I'm gonna try anyway.

To earn something is to put the necessary work into it, in order to claim it as your own. Now, this is not a given in any situation, but rather an agreement between two parties - when the "giving" party is convinced the "acquiring" has met his end of the arrangement, then it is only right to "give" what has been rightfully "aquired." This, however biased it may seem to the giving party, is actually based on a mutual understanding of its value by both parties form the start.

In short, IF YOU DEVALUE YOURSELF TO THE POINT THAT YOU CONSIDER "SLUT" TO BE A GOOD THING, DON'T BE UPSET WHEN YOU FIND OUT IT ISN'T... And the "Acquiring Party / Man" has moved the hell on to something more worthwhile.

Really... Isn't there anyone who can explain that simple concept better that my drunken self?
 

CommanderKirov

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Oct 3, 2010
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Woooah. This is so out of context.

I believe it's only fair for a woman to dress as promisciouly as she wants without worry of sexual assault happening.

As far as I can tell the whole march was about women wanting the police to do their bloody job instead of sidetracking and blaming the whole rape issue on something else.

EDIT:
Kathinka said:
as my boyfriend once remarked: "a key that opens a lot of locks is a master key and very valuable. a lock that opens for a lot of keys is just a shitty lock"
My good woman. You made this my new quote of the day! :]
 

binvjoh

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Sep 27, 2010
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tanis1lionheart said:
binvjoh said:
You completely missed the point. The parade was to support rape victims and tear down the whole "she dressed like a slut, she was asking for it" stance.
"Just because I look hungry doesn't mean I want random people showing sausages down my throat".
Hahaha...love the analogy.
I must confess I stole it.
 

Valdus

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Apr 7, 2011
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So basically they're marching because they don't like that a derogatory word exists for woman who sleep around or dress a certain way?

Alright, what about words like "womanizer" or "misoganist"?

I can understand getting pissed off at the police for saying "Don't dress this way" since it's close to saying "it's almost your fault" but it seems a little far to hold parades against one word (which, in case many of the woman there seem to forget, has been applied to men recently as well).
 

brimstone1392

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Actually, CommanderKirov, that's the way much of the media has portrayed it, but given the interviews conducted on the scene, it really doesn't seem that way. Those involved were more interested in preserving "feminist" rights than the right of the individual woman.

Basically, their goal was "Men Bad. Woman Saint... And we'll coerce any public attention from IMPORTANT issues of rape or injustice to further that idea."

Anyway, that's what I got from the interviews. It's the reason I posted my own little diatribe.
 

Treblaine

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Jul 25, 2008
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evilthecat said:
Guy Jackson said:
Defense mechanism. Interesting. Then explain why some male rape victims said they got an erection during the rape. Exactly how does an erection serve as any kind of defense mechanism?
Assuming that's remotely the same thing. Are you going to claim 25% of male rape victims get erections now, and that men fantasize about rape?
It's the prostate, very sensitive to stimulation is directly adjacent to the rectum and when palpated can causes an AUTONOMOUS sexual response that one has diminished willpower to prevent.

No need to look into psychology, this is basic nerve mechanics things like "arousal" and ejaculation/orgasm don't come from emotions of your psyche, they are response to stimulus like shivering when you get cold you can try to will yourself to stop it but often you can't.

Also people fantasise about lots of things from murder to theft to racism to suicide.

That doesn't mean they ACTUALLY want those to ACTUALLY happen, they may not even really want the fantasies themselves they just pop into their head and indulge in them because they are private as private as anything could possibly be inside their own head. It does NOT translate as representative of their true actual desires.
 

Bobbity

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Seems utterly reasonable to me. The argument that women should dress modestly to avoid being raped is utter crap, and I'm glad that they're fighting it, as well as the pressure from society.
 

maninahat

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sethzard said:
I think you've totally missed the point of the article, I support them on this. They should be able to choose how they dress without the worry of being raped.
Seems like you have too. The protests are more about dealing with the double standard regarding promiscuity, than it is concerned with rape. It argues that whereas for men, losing your virginity and sleeping around is encouraged, women are supposed to retain their virginity and not enjoy casual sex. "Slut" as a prejorative is used exclusively against women to suggest that they just plain shouldn't be sleeping around. The protest hopes to make casual sex for women more socially acceptable (or at least tolerable).
 

Adremmalech

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Mar 1, 2009
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Hmm. This is interesting. I know I don't like rape, but I also don't like women dressing like sluts all the time. There's certainly a time and place for dressing like a slut though, and I love those times and places. As far as public dress code, as long as you belong in those clothes (I'm looking at you, muffin-tops), go ahead.

On the topic at hand, wether clothing can attract rapists?
I think it makes sense that a woman who looks good is at higher risk than a less attractive woman of being assaulted. Is that bad to point out? Wearing clothing that shows off a nice body may therefor attract people who would like to take advantage of that body. Body Language also attracts predators. They can somehow detect a good victim by the way they act. It all matters. It's not wrong to be aware of it.

After all, it was just a suggestion.
 

Labyrinth

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Oct 14, 2007
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Guy Jackson said:
My explanation involves one assumption: that on some level women enjoy, if only in part, being raped.
Physical stimulation does not equate to 'enjoyment', nor to psychological desire. Ravishment fantasies are very different to rape fantasies. Fantasies do not equate to desires for something to happen. Your comments are as insensitive to survivors of rape and abuse as they are baseless.
 

Hive Mind

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Apr 30, 2011
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Bobbity said:
Seems utterly reasonable to me. The argument that women should dress modestly to avoid being raped is utter crap, and I'm glad that they're fighting it, as well as the pressure from society.
Every thread I go to - BAM - Bobbity is there, making points I agree with. Are you... Are you me, like five minutes in the future?

Adremmalech said:
Hmm. This is interesting. I know I don't like rape, but I also don't like women dressing like sluts all the time. There's certainly a time and place for dressing like a slut though, and I love those times and places. As far as public dress code, as long as you belong in those clothes (I'm looking at you, muffin-tops), go ahead.
Cool story. What's it like to be so shallow people can see straight through you?
 

Jimbo1212

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dogstile said:
Actually, they pretty much are the most subjective thing ever. What you find attractive may not be what I find attractive after all. That's subjective enough for me. What you like depends on your race, your background, your upbringing, your own moral code, etc.

And the officers comment was stupid because it's dangerously close to blaming the victim. He should have worded it better rather than said a statement that sounds annoyingly close to "well, obviously its the clothes you wear, thats why you get raped!"
Please don't argue this point when you have clearly not checked google scholar like I suggested as attraction between humans is anything but subjective - and this has been proven.

The thing is, the officer did not blame the clothes, he just said it was one of many factors and that you should try to do everything possible to help yourself. The fact that so many women are screaming about it makes me wonder how self destructive women have become in our society. If you are given advice, then ignore it for no reason, it normally shows that the person is sitting on a bag load of issues.

Xisin said:
TB_Infidel said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13333013

So these women are proud of being sluts, think that there is nothing wrong with acting in that way, and rather then listening to advice on how to avoid rape, they want to protest?

Does anyone else find this type of behavior ridiculous and shows how warped/hedonistic parts of Western society is becoming?
...Did you read the article? A police officer said that women shouldn't dress like sluts and not that people should not rape them. They are attempting to take the word back, not saying something like: having unsafe sex with everyone is great fun.

Have you ever been to the beach or a pool? Should we cover everyone up when they are there, for their own protection? Blaming the victim is silly, always.
Well we have been telling people not to rape for how many years and yet they do not listen, so the only solution is to tell the women what to do and not do. What is sad is how insecure they have been over it and think that advice is somehow an attack on their rights.

They can not 'take the word back' as it has never been good or positive. They also have little understanding of biology because they would realise that yes, men and women are different when it comes to sex.....which I think is pretty obvious when you look at a man and a woman.

Beaches etc comes down to practicality. Wearing a miniskirt and the shortest, tightest top on a night out when it is snowing is ridiculous and dangerous.
 

Xanian

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Oct 19, 2009
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Right idea, wrong approach. I don't think you can reclaim "slut" and it undermines the real reasons for rape...which has less to do with unbridled lust and more to do with domination. Yes, we should wear what we want...but wearing anything but a spiked insert in your va-jay-jay won't keep you from being raped.
 

Hive Mind

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SillyBear said:
Most rape is committed by someone the victim has been acquainted with previously and has spent the night with them.
Incorrect. The majority of rapes (50%+) are committed upon children.
 

Adremmalech

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Hive Mind said:
Adremmalech said:
Hmm. This is interesting. I know I don't like rape, but I also don't like women dressing like sluts all the time. There's certainly a time and place for dressing like a slut though, and I love those times and places. As far as public dress code, as long as you belong in those clothes (I'm looking at you, muffin-tops), go ahead.
Cool story. What's it like to be so shallow people can see straight through you?
I'm not sure what you mean.
I'd prefer it if people all people dressed more modestly, however I respect people's right to dress however they wish. It's not my place to dictate what people should do, but since it is a forum, I thought I'd post my opinion. It could be that you are calling me shallow for the muffin-top comment. I apologize if you are part of that group, but it's not a good look.