WolfThomas said:
Yes, I'm aware how naive my post sounds, but I truly believe that the only only society will progress is through idealism rather than realism.
That is just difference of opinion and that's fair enough.
WolfThomas said:
Telling women what to wear is letting the rapists win in my book, a small minority has got all women scared how to act. We need to improve society not just learn to live with it.
Be careful not to let the fact this is rape and such a social taboo skew reality though. I think my argument applies for all crimes. Let's take muggings. If I was a police officer, I should be able to tell people not to walk alone at night in dangerous areas whilst displaying wealth because you are more likely to be mugged. This is fine, but once someone suggests something similar to this in regard to rape they are automatically disregarded and called insensitive.
WolfThomas said:
But if we have to be pragmatic and of course I'd want my own mother/sister/wife/daughter to be safe, but telling them how to dress I feel isn't the right approach.
There is a time and a place for freedom of expression. That time isn't at 2 o'clock in the morning and that place isn't at the most dangerous bar in town.
I think you are slightly misunderstanding my argument. I'm not in favour of a fascist "wear this and don't wear that" mentality. I'm in favour of preaching common sense. Teaching girls that if they go out to the sleaziest bar in town and start talking to dangerous men whilst wearing next to nothing it will increase their chances of rape. This is objectively true, and I don't understand why your idealism and the idealism of the girls who are protesting seeks to get in the way of this.
If they want to be careful, they shouldn't do it. Especially not in areas that are prone to violence.
WolfThomas said:
Most rape is power based and it doesn't matter if you look like a prostitute or a nun, a scared woman will be a target. Better advice would be to suggest self defense, carrying and knowing how to use weapon if it's legal, having situational awareness and knowing what places to avoid at certain times.
This isn't necessarily true. Most rape is committed by someone the victim has been acquainted with previously and has spent the night with them. A typical rape scenario goes like this:
Girl goes out with friends. Girl leaves from her group of friends to talk to boy. Girl and boy flirt. Boy takes girl home. Boy and girl flirt some more. Boy goes to have sex with girl. Girl declines. Boy rapes girl.
The incidents of sexual assault that are completely out of the blue where strong men jump out of the bushes at 2am and ponce on a women are far less common. This particular police officer probably saw a string of 100 sexual assaults, and 80 of them involved the victim dressing promiscuously. Is he not allowed to comment on this, and to warn people about it?
To reinforce my point, I think there is a time and a place for dressing how you want. Sometimes I wear clothing that certainly wouldn't please 19th Century views on feminine etiquette. If I know I am going out to a relatively nice area with a large group of friends who I will not split up with halfway through the night, I will dress very differently to how I would if I was about to go down town to a seedy district with different circumstances.
It's about common sense. Yes, I agree with you, it's awful that we have to say this and in a perfect world females could express themselves however they want. Unfortunately this world doesn't exist and we should be allowed to freely comment on this and be realistic. Instead, all we have are a group of young women who completely misconstrue the message and go on a protest.
edit: Yikes, I'm in an internet debate. I feel unclean!