So a black actor is considering role of Johnny Storm and nerdrage has turned racist again.

[Strain42]

I wouldn't consider it racist.

There's a huge difference between turning a character black and replacing them with a similar, black character (like Miles Morales).

Personally, changing the race of a character just seems... disrespectful to that character. I mean, if the Human Torch had been black to begin with and they were considering a white actor to play him, well that would just be racist as hell wouldn't it? Why isn't it the same the other way around?

So I'm just sat here waiting to be offended? So when people cry for a man to never even be considered for a role based on the fact that he has one physical feature that differs from the original character, nobody should get angry about that? sorry, mate, but it IS offensive, and it IS racist.

So are you saying if there were a movie centered around the bushmen tribes of Africa, that it would be acceptable to consider a white or Asian actor for the role of the tribe leader?

Ever heard of white-washing? Because it's vastly different to having a black guy play the part of one of the millions of white characters who could be any race.

It's not white washing if you don't get a white actor. If there was an Asian Luke Cage, or a Latin John Stewart it would still cause the same discussion. It's still needlessly changing the race of an established character. I'm not saying that it's automatically a bad thing. Just that it's needless. And I think it's a bit unfair that someone should be considered a racist just because they feel it would be equally needless to change a white character as much as a character of any other race.

 

[Edguy]

How sheltered are you? Seriously, you're either trolling or your idea of a family unit hasn't managed to go past the 50's. Does it matter if they're supposed to be related? Does the sibling dynamic somehow dwindle in your mind because they won't be related? What's silly and unneeded about a quick backstory change that won't effect the rest of the story in any conceivably remarkable way in the slightest?

What's wrong with adoption?

Someone's missing the point here..

No-one's saying those changes are impossible or that they can't be done well. They're saying there's no valid reasons to make those changes. Making a character adopted would change the dynamic, and begs the question that it's plot related. If it ends up just being a change for the sake of having different ethicity of two siblings, then audiences, in most cases, would be left wondering why they made a point of that in the first place. That's a rule of writing; if something stands out from what you would expect, then the audience will expect that it's relevant to the plot somehow.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Then why not CREATE good, well-written, non-white, superheroes? They are just lazy shmucks.

You know, the funny thing is that they try. Like Icon, Victor Mancha, John Stewart the Green Lantern, Aqualad, Sunfire, Sunspot (new Mutants), M (Monet Yvette Clarisse Maria Therese St. Croix from Generation X) Moonstar (new Mutants), Wind Dancer (New X-men), Synch (Generation X) and a personal favorite... and what do you know, they killed him off to create tension. Way to be original writers... Anyway, Karma (new Mutants), Cyborg of the teen titans was at once at Amazo's levels of Robotic ass kickery... and a lot of people don't take to it. A lot of people see it as pandering. "Oh. He's a minority AND Powerful?! Right, they are just trying to be PC."

It's very odd. A powerful shape shifting alien who takes the guise of a black man (J'onn J'onzz) is acceptable. A power alien super hero that happens to look like a black man... such a PC reach that it's unforgivable.

Though my fondness for being the Devils Advocate would ask those defending it what they'd say if a white guy played Luke Cage or Black Panther.

1) For those characters, their race (or skin colour, or ethnicity) is an important part of their character.
2) There are far less black superheroes than there are white ones, so changing white to black is a step towards diversity, other way around it's not.

So it wouldn't be the same thing.

There's a point to this here. I'm not really behind changing a story just to change it. I wasn't and am still not a fan of the Dante redesign. I feel like if you want to do the story, then do it. don't change it to give your own unique flavor.

But to the point, you don't look at the Have-nots and say 'so, what about me?' A person rich in resources should not find himself without a dollar and look to a poor man and ask to borrow one.

 

[direkiller]

Wait, Michael Jordan has an acting career? Isn't he that basketball guy?

was space jam so bad you blocked it from your memory

Hi does any one have access to a statistical breakdown of the ethnicity In marvel comics?
I found one for DC, and the justice league has more Aliens then black members.
You might say it's not relevant but if this is about race preservation in source material, then that only counts as long as the source
isn't it's self racist. If marvel universe is 90% white then you can't argue for race preservation without arguing for white superiority.
If it's a fairer split 70% white fair enough race preservation is purely about source material

depends on the run the JL has never been just one set of superheroes.
Just as an example:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/JLA1_turner.jpg
20%Black(Vixen,Black Lightning)
50%white(Wonderwoman,Green Lantern,Black Cannary,Red Arrow,batman)
20%Alien(Superman, Hawk girl)
10%Android(Red Tornado)

 

[gibboss28]

I'm not sure if this kid should play the Human Torch (he was honestly forgettable in Chronicle), but I do know that Donald Glover totally deserves a crack at Spider-Man.

that just reminds me of his stand up set where he talked about that

"And the other half of the internet were like 'He's black kill him!'"

But anywho, I really couldn't care. More power to the guy.

 

[Sepko]

It's not white washing if you don't get a white actor. If there was an Asian Luke Cage, or a Latin John Stewart it would still cause the same discussion. It's still needlessly changing the race of an established character. I'm not saying that it's automatically a bad thing. Just that it's needless. And I think it's a bit unfair that someone should be considered a racist just because they feel it would be equally needless to change a white character as much as a character of any other race.

As much as we'd like to live in a perfect world of perfect equality and happiness, that's not the case. There are more white characters in western media than there are any other races combined. Does it have to be needless to try something new with a character, who's skin colour is about as interchangeable as their costume? Does it matter if it's needless? Is it going to dramatically change anything? It doesn't matter. At all. And that's fine. It's not the end of the world. It doesn't mean they shouldn't do it in the first place as well. Because it doesn't matter, allegedly.

Someone's missing the point here..

No-one's saying those changes are impossible or that they can't be done well. They're saying there's no valid reasons to make those changes. Making a character adopted would change the dynamic, and begs the question that it's plot related. If it ends up just being a change for the sake of having different ethicity of two siblings, then audiences, in most cases, would be left wondering why they made a point of that in the first place. That's a rule of writing; if something is out of what you would expect, then the audience will expect that it's relevant to the plot somehow.

What dynamic are we speaking of here? Is their relationship as siblings somehow going to be a lesser one if it ends up that one of them's adopted? Why does it have to be important to the plot?
So if the movie ends up with a black Johnny and a white Sue, the notion is going to be so radical that it's just going to have to be an important plot point?

Again, why does it matter if the race change is needless? If it's seemingly not impossible to do it then why get up in arms because "there's no valid reasons" for it?

 

[Sherokain]

Shouldn't it depend on encapsulating both characters within their roles? What i mean to say if a female actor really steals the show as sue it should also depend on her ethnicity as well, be her black, white, asian or what ever else?

 

[ninjaRiv]

This whole "black guy portraying a white character" shit gets on my nerves. Adapt a book with a black character. That is the better idea. No shouts of racism or PC gone mad anywhere! They're thinking about doing Black panther and Blade; there ya go! Now you're getting it! Not enough black comic book characters? Great, best make some new ones! What is using a black actor for a white character supposed to achieve?

I mean, it's as stupid as when people went nuts over Ryan Reynolds being cast as Green Lantern. That's the level of stupid this whole thing is. The highest level of stupid. Top level.

 

[Zeldias]

"OMG shut up, it's fine for Cumberbatch to be Khan even though it was a big deal that Khan wasn't a white guy."
"OMG shut up, it's fine that all the characters in Avatar: The Last Airbender movie are cast as white."
"OMG shut up, it's not realistic for there to be minorities here/it's just normal/deal with it/etc etc."

"OMG WTF, A MINORITY IS GONNA BE CAST AS A CHARACTER THAT WAS ORIGINALLY WHITE? HOW DARE YOU!?"

I love the smell of racist, white supremacist hypocrisy in the morning.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Also, I feel like I should be "that guy" and point out that there's a difference between being racist and just not wanting a black guy playing a white character.

 

[Sherokain]

I think Brad Pitt should play Luke Cage. What? It will "add new depth to the character", or some other bull****.

how would that add new depth?
just curious how this works in your head.

He's being sarcastic my friend. Atleast i think he is.
Captcha: i love deadlines. yes captcha i know i have an exam tomorrow and im wasting my time on these forums but i need an hour to unwind after work. -_-

 

[lunam-kardas]

Hey if the guy is a good actor then what's the problem?

 

[Sepko]

"OMG shut up, it's fine for Cumberbatch to be Khan even though it was a big deal that Khan wasn't a white guy."
"OMG shut up, it's fine that all the characters in Avatar: The Last Airbender movie are cast as white."
"OMG shut up, it's not realistic for there to be minorities here/it's just normal/deal with it/etc etc."

"OMG WTF, A MINORITY IS GONNA BE CAST AS A CHARACTER THAT WAS ORIGINALLY WHITE? HOW DARE YOU!?"

I love the smell of racist, white supremacist hypocrisy in the morning.

I think it's coming from your straw man.

Pretty sure that's not a straw man.

 

[Sepko]

Also, I feel like I should be "that guy" and point out that there's a difference between being racist and just not wanting a black guy playing a white character.

Unless your argument is one of these points then I suppose there is a difference.
http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/the-5-most-insulting-defenses-nerd-racism/

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Am I the only one too distracted by the fact the Fantastic Four suck to even start caring about their casting?

 

[ninjaRiv]

"OMG shut up, it's fine for Cumberbatch to be Khan even though it was a big deal that Khan wasn't a white guy."
"OMG shut up, it's fine that all the characters in Avatar: The Last Airbender movie are cast as white."
"OMG shut up, it's not realistic for there to be minorities here/it's just normal/deal with it/etc etc."

"OMG WTF, A MINORITY IS GONNA BE CAST AS A CHARACTER THAT WAS ORIGINALLY WHITE? HOW DARE YOU!?"

I love the smell of racist, white supremacist hypocrisy in the morning.

I think it's coming from your straw man.

Pretty sure that's not a straw man.

Zeldia is assuming everyone's the same and we're all racist so, at the very least, it's fucking stupid and a terrible argument/point

 

[Sepko]

Edit: Seriously if the best you can do is "I'm going to assume everyone arguing this also believes these other things, that way I can call them hypocrites instead of addressing their points", you should just go.

Because 2 can play that game.

"How dare you make the people in the last airbender white, that's racist"
"ZOMG stop complaining about this white guy being played by a black guy, racists"

Oh, you added more.
And this is bad because....

 

[ninjaRiv]

Also, I feel like I should be "that guy" and point out that there's a difference between being racist and just not wanting a black guy playing a white character.

Unless your argument is one of these points then I suppose there is a difference.
http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/the-5-most-insulting-defenses-nerd-racism/

Mine is not. At all.

 

[Sepko]

Also, I feel like I should be "that guy" and point out that there's a difference between being racist and just not wanting a black guy playing a white character.

Unless your argument is one of these points then I suppose there is a difference.
http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/the-5-most-insulting-defenses-nerd-racism/

Mine is not. At all.

Are you suuuuuuuuuuuuuure?

 

[Strain42]

It's not white washing if you don't get a white actor. If there was an Asian Luke Cage, or a Latin John Stewart it would still cause the same discussion. It's still needlessly changing the race of an established character. I'm not saying that it's automatically a bad thing. Just that it's needless. And I think it's a bit unfair that someone should be considered a racist just because they feel it would be equally needless to change a white character as much as a character of any other race.

As much as we'd like to live in a perfect world of perfect equality and happiness, that's not the case. There are more white characters in western media than there are any other races combined. Does it have to be needless to try something new with a character, who's skin colour is about as interchangeable as their costume? Does it matter if it's needless? Is it going to dramatically change anything? It doesn't matter. At all. And that's fine. It's not the end of the world. It doesn't mean they shouldn't do it in the first place as well. Because it doesn't matter, allegedly.

That's sort of my point. It doesn't matter, therefore it is needless. It's true there is little reason why they "shouldn't do it in the first place" but you can just as easily say there isn't really any reason why they should. The only argument I've heard for why they "should" would be to add diversity to Hollywood, but Hollywood could easily do that without changing existing characters.

How many popcorn action movies come out every single year that have new and original characters that could have easily been non-white from the start? How about we work on these rather than changing existing characters?

I'm not going to deny for a second that there aren't more white characters than any other race out there in most western media, but that doesn't mean the solution to this is to take established characters and change them.

But like you said, and I agree with you, it's basically pointless.

In my eyes if an actor does a good job with the role, it's fine.

I'm sure when auditions were held for Heimdall, they hired Idris Elba because he did the best job, and it showed in the film because he was awesome.

I'm hoping if Michael B. Jordan gets cast as Human Torch, it'll be because he auditioned fairly and was the best choice for the part. Not because the director is already his friend and certainly not for the sole purpose of trying to add some diversity.

And if he turns out to do a good job, I will come out of that theater opening day saying he did a good job. If he does a good job I'm not gonna walk out of the theater going "but why was he black?"