So! Avengers: Endgame
- Thread starter bastardofmelbourne
- Start date
Yep, we're now in an age where people not being self-centered, mindless, braying jackasses in the theater is considered the sign of a bad movie.trunkage said:
I'll take a "bad" movie and a "bored" audience any day or night of the week over "I RECOGNIZED THAT REFERENCE AND I CLAAAAAAPED OH MY GOD THAT CHARACTER QUIPPED AND I LAAAAAAAFFFED THERE WAS MORE CGI AND I CHEEEEEERED THIS MOVIE HAD BLUE IN IT IT BROKE NEW GROUND CONSUME PRODUCT GET HYPE FOR MORE PRODUCT AND BUY MORE TICKETS TO CONSUME SAME PRODUCT SO I CLAAAAAAP".
Speak for yourself. The theater I was in, and the one I usually go to, people are respectful regardless of quality. When I went to see Avengers: End Game in the morning, people laughed when appropriate without going overboard, clapped when appropriate, and were silent and respectful to each other. That goes double for the kids.Eacaraxe said:
End Game was the greatest 3 hours of life. The movie gets an S Rank. A Better Than Sex rating. 11/10 FTW!!
Would that have done anything? The price was paid and you can't backtrack.Johnny Novgorod said:
He already been given a lethal dosage. Her input was no longer needed. And while she wasn't taken out, she didn't get the upper hand either
But, as I've said, Endgame is style over story,
I did see Infinity War on opening day last year. While there wasn't call outs of references, there was definitely cheering. It creates a very different environment. But I didn't want that experience for Endgame, chose a different day.Eacaraxe said:
Thanos is REALLY fucking strong. Watch Infinity War and actually pay attention to when he uses the gems during a fight. He barely uses them at all. He tends towards not using them in fights unless he has to like fighting against Dr Strange and magic.Johnny Novgorod said:
Also like everyone else in the MCU Captain Marvel has very poorly defined powers.
Also, it's funny to me that there were kids at the cinema who weren't even born when Marvel started down this road. I remember going to see Raimi's Spider-man and Bryan Singers X-Men at the cinema.
I thought it was good. Not as good as Infinity War. I spoilered myself and I don't think it effected how I saw the film since it's a Marvel film, we know how it goes. I am glad they didn't fuck it up though as it would have been so easy to.
I get that this is a movie about the core Avengers but I would have liked more character moments since it was more of a heist film than a whiz-bang action film. I do wish Marvel gave its directors more freedom as several shots before the big battle have amazing cinematography. It's like how Harry Potter And The Half Blood Prince stands out from the other films. I think people don't really get that these films can look like more than just blobs of CGI wailing on each other. I feel like the Russo lead films all skirt some heavy themes but Disney pulls them back. At several points the film strays into deconstructivist territory and wants to discuss the effects war and fighting has on people then it pulls back from getting too heavy, which is kind of a shame. It's most obvious in Thor's story arc.
I liked that the non-snap deaths stayed dead.
Now questions and complaints: They have everyone together at the end of the film for the battle but almost no one interacts. Also why does Black Widow not get a funeral? Why does no one seem concerned that Red Skull is a floaty man on an alien planet? Clint and Natasha don't seem to recognize him despite probably being briefed on him in regards to the tesseract. I was expecting him to make a douchey comment about Nat's dad though. The final battle felt a too short. Captain Marvel's haircut looks awful. Paul Rudd was under used, I feel like he should have gotten a scene where he plans out the time heist since that's his thing. Nebula's arc was weirdly stunted, I don't think they really knew what her character was supposed to be. I feel like they invested too heavily into the Spider-Man/Stark relationship but they've not had enough time together on screen to make it work. No big Guardians reunion. They come back and don't speak to each other at all until after the battle. Not enough Strange doing cool magic stuff.
I liked that the non-snap deaths stayed dead.
Now questions and complaints: They have everyone together at the end of the film for the battle but almost no one interacts. Also why does Black Widow not get a funeral? Why does no one seem concerned that Red Skull is a floaty man on an alien planet? Clint and Natasha don't seem to recognize him despite probably being briefed on him in regards to the tesseract. I was expecting him to make a douchey comment about Nat's dad though. The final battle felt a too short. Captain Marvel's haircut looks awful. Paul Rudd was under used, I feel like he should have gotten a scene where he plans out the time heist since that's his thing. Nebula's arc was weirdly stunted, I don't think they really knew what her character was supposed to be. I feel like they invested too heavily into the Spider-Man/Stark relationship but they've not had enough time together on screen to make it work. No big Guardians reunion. They come back and don't speak to each other at all until after the battle. Not enough Strange doing cool magic stuff.
Really though there was more I liked than I disliked.
Thanos is REALLY fucking strong. Watch Infinity War and actually pay attention to when he uses the gems during a fight. He barely uses them at all. He tends towards not using them in fights unless he has to like fighting against Dr Strange and magic.Johnny Novgorod said:
Also like everyone else in the MCU Captain Marvel has very poorly defined powers.
Also, it's funny to me that there were kids at the cinema who weren't even born when Marvel started down this road. I remember going to see Raimi's Spider-man and Bryan Singers X-Men at the cinema.
I thought it was good. Not as good as Infinity War. I spoilered myself and I don't think it effected how I saw the film since it's a Marvel film, we know how it goes. I am glad they didn't fuck it up though as it would have been so easy to.
I get that this is a movie about the core Avengers but I would have liked more character moments since it was more of a heist film than a whiz-bang action film. I do wish Marvel gave its directors more freedom as several shots before the big battle have amazing cinematography. It's like how Harry Potter And The Half Blood Prince stands out from the other films. I think people don't really get that these films can look like more than just blobs of CGI wailing on each other. I feel like the Russo lead films all skirt some heavy themes but Disney pulls them back. At several points the film strays into deconstructivist territory and wants to discuss the effects war and fighting has on people then it pulls back from getting too heavy, which is kind of a shame. It's most obvious in Thor's story arc.
I liked that the non-snap deaths stayed dead.
Now questions and complaints: They have everyone together at the end of the film for the battle but almost no one interacts. Also why does Black Widow not get a funeral? Why does no one seem concerned that Red Skull is a floaty man on an alien planet? Clint and Natasha don't seem to recognize him despite probably being briefed on him in regards to the tesseract. I was expecting him to make a douchey comment about Nat's dad though. The final battle felt a too short. Captain Marvel's haircut looks awful. Paul Rudd was under used, I feel like he should have gotten a scene where he plans out the time heist since that's his thing. Nebula's arc was weirdly stunted, I don't think they really knew what her character was supposed to be. I feel like they invested too heavily into the Spider-Man/Stark relationship but they've not had enough time together on screen to make it work. No big Guardians reunion. They come back and don't speak to each other at all until after the battle. Not enough Strange doing cool magic stuff.
I liked that the non-snap deaths stayed dead.
Now questions and complaints: They have everyone together at the end of the film for the battle but almost no one interacts. Also why does Black Widow not get a funeral? Why does no one seem concerned that Red Skull is a floaty man on an alien planet? Clint and Natasha don't seem to recognize him despite probably being briefed on him in regards to the tesseract. I was expecting him to make a douchey comment about Nat's dad though. The final battle felt a too short. Captain Marvel's haircut looks awful. Paul Rudd was under used, I feel like he should have gotten a scene where he plans out the time heist since that's his thing. Nebula's arc was weirdly stunted, I don't think they really knew what her character was supposed to be. I feel like they invested too heavily into the Spider-Man/Stark relationship but they've not had enough time together on screen to make it work. No big Guardians reunion. They come back and don't speak to each other at all until after the battle. Not enough Strange doing cool magic stuff.
Trigger warning for people that like Captain Marvel.
Why was she even in this movie? Like at all? It would have been a good idea to show her trying to find out if the Rambeau's, her so called best friend, survived the snap. But no, she's just all "see ya later losers I'm going to space" and fucks off. If they'd actually humanized her a bit in this movie it would have helped her a lot, like how Civil War was a better Black Panther movie than Black Panther. Couple of shots of her grieving at her friends house? Maybe looking for Fury? Her family? But they did the opposite and reduced her to a glorified cameo who doesn't appear to feel emotions. She just has that stupid fucking look on her face the whole time. I'm fairly sure the problem is Larson rather than the writing. She just cannot emote. She's like a T-1000 whose personality chip is permanently set to aloof smugness. It probably would have been a good idea to have Thanos destroy her with the gauntlet or use it to nerf her powers so that her next movie actually has a problem she can't just brute force away and actually give her a character arc. I sincerely hope that Captain Marvel 2 gets its focus shifted to a grown up Monica Rambeau, and Larson is just permanently off in space helping aliens. I won't reply to anyone arguing with me about this as it'll just derail the thread.
Also, thinking back, if they really wanted a powerful female hero why not give Scarlet Witch her own film? She kicked Thanos's ass so badly he had to call in an artillery strike on his own army to save himself. She has an origin story done, she has a decent character and she's actually likeable and relatable despite falling in love with a robot and possible having electro gonorrhoea (the noisy killer)
Also, thinking back, if they really wanted a powerful female hero why not give Scarlet Witch her own film? She kicked Thanos's ass so badly he had to call in an artillery strike on his own army to save himself. She has an origin story done, she has a decent character and she's actually likeable and relatable despite falling in love with a robot and possible having electro gonorrhoea (the noisy killer)
Really though there was more I liked than I disliked.
Here Comes Tomorrow said:
I don't expect consistency in my comic books but still, in that final fight Marvel stands up no problem to Thanos except for when he uses the purple stone. Tony takes them away, why can't she give it another go? What's going to stop her now?
Here Comes Tomorrow said:
I actually largely agree with you here. I?m nowhere near as versed in the nuances of the characters or their stories, but even in my ignorance, I ultimately felt Captain Marvel was superfluous. This film was the first I?d seen of her, and given the reverence with which the other heroes all regarded her coupled with her smugness, I figured she was kinda like an all-powerful ?Superman? type of hero. This was further enforced when the story found a reason for her NOT to be there at every turn (i.e.: like they didn?t want the ?I win? button always there to mitigate 3-hours? worth of impending doom.) Then they introduced Thanos? insurmountable army; seems the day is lost, and ta-dah, from space, Marvel shoots in at the last moment, brings down a spacecraft in two seconds by herself, then lands to face Thanos; she was built up to be the game changer, then Thanos smacks her a couple times, and tosses her aside. I don?t recall seeing her for the remainder of the battle when the [male] Avengers rallied to win the day. So yeah, why WAS Captain Marvel even in this movie? I guess they needed someone to bring down that carrier, but for one of the heros with a stand-alone movie to be relegated to minimal-if-timely ?back up? in THE movie to end all movies seems? I dunno.
Xprimentyl said:
The kicker is that killing a giant space ship by flying through it is the same thing she does in the climax of her own movie.
Xprimentyl said:
This comment is under the proviso that we don't know what's happening in the future with these movies.... I would gather that Captain Marvel has been winning battle all over the place. This was her being taken down a peg. So, in effect, she was like a stinger we normally see at the end of the movie, but actually in the middle of the battle. I do hope that this gives her reason to reconsider her negligence of Earth (hence the proviso)
But then, why were most of the characters in the movie? Spiderman and Black Panther pushed the football down the road, and they were out. Strange teleported everyone and held back some water. So he was a glorified taxi service. Also, why not teleport the water away. I cant remember most of the Guardians doing anything substantial. Falcon flew a bit and Bucky shot his gun.
If you're asking why Captain Marvel was in the movie, it makes as much sense as any character.
But then, why were most of the characters in the movie? Spiderman and Black Panther pushed the football down the road, and they were out. Strange teleported everyone and held back some water. So he was a glorified taxi service. Also, why not teleport the water away. I cant remember most of the Guardians doing anything substantial. Falcon flew a bit and Bucky shot his gun.
If you're asking why Captain Marvel was in the movie, it makes as much sense as any character.
No, I'm saying that you're using a verb as if it were an adjective and that it's wrong to do so.Samtemdo8 said:
Correct usage;
I cringed when he told me that he watched My Little Pony.
The news of the new Netflix show made me cringe.
Incorrect usage;
I don't like that show, it's totally cringe!
Damned youngsters nowadays and their internet speak, can't even use verbs correctly! We're all heading towards Idiocracy at this point, rabble rabble rabble.
Not using spoiler tags because I don't see a point as I'm not actually discussing the film's plot at this point, but I get the feeling the "less Larson alternate cut" leak/rumor is actually true. There were still reshoots right up until Captain Marvel's premiere, and a healthy number of those were apparently scheduled after the controversies over Larson's Crystal Award speech and press junket statements. Don't forget tracking for Captain Marvel's opening weekend took a massive shit in February from $160-180 million, to $100 million, before course-correcting to $140-160 million right before its premiere.trunkage said:
My opinion of Larson's professional conduct aside, especially since I fundamentally and completely agree with what she said about diversity in film criticism, I don't believe it's out of line to say the controversies likely inspired some degree of panic to which Disney as a corporation likely overreacted. Especially since
A. Disney as a corporation is ludicrously risk-averse, even by Hollywood standards, about its fiscal bottom line and notoriously opaque, even by Hollywood standards, about boardroom and other behind-closed-doors activities;
B. Disney is rabidly protective of its family-friendly and controversy-averse image;
C. following from points A and B, Disney has well-documented and exceedingly well-known standards of conduct and codes of behavior that could be described as borderline fascist, except there's no "borderline" about it. Much ink's been spilled already about MCU actors' contractual dietary requirements, social media restrictions, non-compete clauses, and the like so there's not much point in going off about it here.
Which makes one wonder precisely how much of the James Gunn controversy was stagecraft for the sake of damage control, being his exit negotiations were said to be ongoing but never apparently concluded, during which time he retained EP credit on Endgame but is still slated to write and direct the Suicide Squad sequel. I guess if Gunn quietly backs out of Suicide Squad once media attention dies down, we'll know. I suspect he will.
and last;
D. Disney's already under fire and facing an uncomfortably high level of scrutiny over the fan backlash over TLJ and Solo, the latter's box office failure being a clear indicator controversy is damaging to Disney's bottom line. At the end of the day, regardless of intent of any involved party, Disney's a publicly-traded corporation which means its ultimate responsibility is to its shareholders and its ultimate goal is to maximize profit. Grouch about sexist fans all you like, it's certainly your prerogative should you wish to do so, but systemic sexism in Hollywood begins and ends in corporate offices and boardrooms. Full stop.
trunkage said:
I mean neither Captain or Carter knew, so its kinda a Luke/Leia thing. Awkward in retrospective, but no parties knew at the time, so give it a pass, maybe pour an extra drink during Thanksgiving.
Silentpony said:
Okay, Steve couldn't have known and that's okay. But, Sharon? Steve would have been her uncle by marriage; unless they managed to keep Peggy's marriage and Steve's identity one of the closest-guarded secrets in the world, even from Peggy's own immediate family, that raises some questions. Like, you know Sharon wondering how Steve Rogers looks so much like her Uncle Chuck or whatever.
And making out with him anyway.
Or bare minimum, the most awkward briefing and conversation about the importance of preserving one's cover, and the integrity of the timeline. Ever.
We're not talking about a Phillip J. Fry situation where he's his own grandfather here. Or a Marty McFly where he goes back in time and his mom wants to bang him. We're talking about Steve going back in time after the fact, and being the uncle of the chick who grows up to want to bang him.
And making out with him anyway.
Or bare minimum, the most awkward briefing and conversation about the importance of preserving one's cover, and the integrity of the timeline. Ever.
We're not talking about a Phillip J. Fry situation where he's his own grandfather here. Or a Marty McFly where he goes back in time and his mom wants to bang him. We're talking about Steve going back in time after the fact, and being the uncle of the chick who grows up to want to bang him.
Eacaraxe said:
I suppose maybe he changed his look, ala Thor? Not like fat, buy maybe grew a beard and changed his hair color and name? I'm not saying it makes perfect sense, but I think from Sharon's perspective it'd be easier to think Uncle Chuck kinda looks like the propaganda posters of Captain America rather than Captain America is thawed out, I'm assigned to shadow him, I fall for him and we hook up, and then he goes back in time to marry my aunt and become Uncle Chuck.
And I know its awkward to say, but maybe Steve thinks its for the best? Like let Sharon flirt with his younger self, neither knowing the truth, so she'll ultimately help stop Hydra, and steal his and falcon's suits to help fight Iron Man, and all it cost was his niece to kiss a guy she's hot for, neither knowing their is a familial, but no biological, relationship 10+ years and 30 years earlier, respectively.
Also Cap is what, 90 in the end and sharon is like 30? 35? Its fair to say Steve will look different enough at 60 that she won't immediately recognize him again at like 28-29, especially as she wont be considering time travel
And I know its awkward to say, but maybe Steve thinks its for the best? Like let Sharon flirt with his younger self, neither knowing the truth, so she'll ultimately help stop Hydra, and steal his and falcon's suits to help fight Iron Man, and all it cost was his niece to kiss a guy she's hot for, neither knowing their is a familial, but no biological, relationship 10+ years and 30 years earlier, respectively.
Also Cap is what, 90 in the end and sharon is like 30? 35? Its fair to say Steve will look different enough at 60 that she won't immediately recognize him again at like 28-29, especially as she wont be considering time travel
I have said for many years that Obi-wan is the absolute worst. Luke and Leia didn't know (and I do understand this more than someone going back in time.) It wasn't their fault they didn't know, it was Obi-wan's. He came back as a ghost in Empire and told Yoda about the second Skywalker BUT DIDNT WARN LUKE ABOUT THAT KISS. But then Obi-wan hid the child of Anakin Skywalker becuase he was a target BUT KEPT THE LAST NAME. Excellent job, Obi. Also, don't hide your target with the uncle of the person wanting to track him down. That would be the first place someone would look. Obi-Wan has shown that he's a complete idiot.Silentpony said:
I don't think I wanted much more of Captain Marvel in the movie, unless it was a background shot, helping kill more minions. It was the perfect amount as she isn't really an Avenger yet. But, as with everyone else, she needed to do some part so she could eventually become a member of the team.Eacaraxe said:
And yes, I'd agree. The whole James Gunn things was orchestrated so he could be reinstated after the noise wound down. I also think Disney expect to create a cinematic universe with Star Wars and that hasn't panned out. They'd probably be looking for something else ramp up now. Also, a lot these love action remakes are being mainly done to up the number of movies on Disney plus next year.
Skipping the background nonsense and the struggle to coherently elucidate it, to me it represents a missed opportunity on Marvel's part to meaningfully kickstart Carol Danvers' personal story arc, while also providing tonal and thematic maturation to the MCU now that the Russo brothers and their favored vehicle for exploring mature themes are out, and course-correcting after bowlderizing Tony Stark's alcoholism to hell and back.trunkage said: