so....Not having children=Selfish?

[Tuesday Night Fever]

Hardly an agreement at all. I presented an alternate viewpoint. You presented what you claimed to be a universal fact that supposedly made the alternate viewpoint invalid. I've been asking you to give some evidence as to why your claim is supposedly a fact, and you haven't.

There's zero agreement.

And it's for that reason that I'm done with this. The evidence to support your claim is never going to materialize, because you don't have any. Something which I think it's safe to say everyone here in this topic can see clear as day. Next time if you're going to make a fear-mongering claim against people who choose to live their lives differently than you, at least be prepared when someone decides to question you. Which is to say this line of discussion is over on my end, because it's not worth it to try to have an intelligent discussion with someone so zealously attached to their ideals that they consider a lack of evidence to be evidence.

 

[El Dwarfio]

discussion value, have you or somone you know ever encountered this kind of attitude? can you explain why not having kids is somhow selfish/non-selfish? and what do you think about it in general? [/B]

Wait what? Where did you hear this from? The current trend I'm getting is that it's selfish to have children, on account of them using all the globes resources, over populating, causing Armageddon, yadda yadda yadda.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

I think that having more than one child is very selfish. The planet is already overpopulated and that's just you, who already had a child then gets another one for no real reason. It's not beneficial to anyone, except you and not really that either.

Adopting is kind of good I guess, but I wouldn't do it.

 

[dobahci]

If anything, a selfish person would want to reproduce. They would feel the need to ensure that their genetic line, heritage, and family name don't die out. It's the ultimate selfish act -- that last desperate attempt at immortality, at cheating death, by ensuring that a part of you (in the form of your progeny) continues to survive.

That said, I don't look at it as a bad thing to be selfish in that manner. After all, it's that sort of selfish impulse which is the reason why you are here. You are the product of countless generations of humans (and other creatures) surviving long enough to act upon that selfish impulse, and reproduce. You are part of an unbroken line of thousands of survivors, selfish beings all of them, where so many others have died out.

But then, I think in today's world, with everyone having the ability to think for themselves and make their own lifestyle choices, everyone's free to decide whether or not they want to have kids. We have comfortable enough lives that that is the case, and in some ways, it is better not to reproduce due to the fact that resources on the planet are finite and the population is always growing.

If some sort of worldwide pandemic were to hit that wiped out 99.9% of the world's population and you happened to be one of the survivors... then I'd say there is something very wrong with you if you don't want to have kids. But until that situation happens, to each his own.

 

[twohundredpercent]

yes, I know this is kind of the wrong kind of topic for....well a gaming site (full of people probably less inclined to get excited about babies), but hey Im bored and Ive been thinking of this

now Im going to go out on a limb here and say this gets labelled on you more if you are female, obviously because child rearing has always been "our" thing..but anyway

Ya you got that right.

There's groups that whine about it on reddit. I figure if you don't really, you know, give an idea of what brought this about, this discussion just doesn't seem to go anywhere.

 

[SwagLordYoloson]

It is pretty selfish.

Usually I have as many children as I can to ensure my Dynasty line continues, then as they reach majority I ship as many off to Sweden and Norway as possible as a back up plan encase England invade Ireland later in the century. The only children of mine that I don't send overseas to marry into royal families are my first three children, the first will inherit my titles, the second I usually send off to invade Wales, the third I will send on a crusade to Iberia to prevent them from destroying France and going all Golden Horde on Europe. If I abdicate I help my oldest in my line hunt down and slay my third born to prevent him from propagating and being able to claim my son's land. If I survive to my grandchildren's majority, then I help my son Invade Wales to seize the land from my son and give it to my grand child. My second born then rots in my oubliette.

 

[skeliton112]

1. there are other (better) ways to contribute to society rather than reproducing
2. theres nothing wrong with my country population
3. unless ALOT of people become homosexual, thats a non-issue
4. Is me not having any children really going to affect things all that much?
5. who says I have THAT kind of responsibility to my country?

1. I find that breathing is a more effective way at staying alive than eating food, we should probably stop caring about eating food.

2. This doesn't mean Australia will not fall victim to the same problem currently plaguing other countries.

3. As much as 10% of the population is homosexual, most gay people don't find long term partners and adopt or otherwise sponsor the production of children. That's effectively an extra 10% to the infertility rate.

4. We should stop voting, an individual vote means nothing.

5. We the human race are responsible for sustaining ourselves as a while, responsibility is evenly distributed among our population to fill a quota. It's not like we're going to expect one couple to produce about seven billion children within the timeframe of about 70 years. We all have the responsibility to do our share if possible.

1. How is this the same? Its more like depriving one of your cells of nutrients. It really wont matter unless it happens way more than it should.
2. Australia may fall victim to civil war like the African country, therefore we should train everyone to use weapons. Australia population is rising, there is no population crisis, and almost definitely wont be one soon.
3. (I think its lower than 10%, but anyways) It isn't extra. It is factored in already. Also, 6/7 of the gay people I know are in long term relationships. Its a small sample size but still.
4. Well, if voting required a lifetime commitment and huge monetary loss you would have a point.
5. I feel no obligation towards the human race, and we don't have a responsibility to sustain ourselves anymore than I have a responsibility to enjoy video games. I mean, I'm probably going to enjoy it anyway. (In this situation imagine I'm being forced to play, almost as much as I'm forcing this analogy)

 

[lRookiel]

Ahem.....

If someone wanted me to raise a child so I could stop being 'Selfish' I would say this straight away.


So by someones Crazy logic (Not sure who's exactly) not having a child is considered selfish..... Why?!

There are already over 7 billion people in the world, do we need any more?! NO! So stop pestering people to have more fucking babies already! (Not directed at the OP or anyone with a fucking brain)

 

[nightwolf667]

Kids are expensive, they really are. I don't have the money to afford one, much less more than one, and when I do have the money I may (depending on my partner and I wanting to make the commitment) or I may not. Given the whole nine months of carrying the baby and extra few years of no sleep, I'm thinking not right now. But before then, bringing one into the world would be cruel and there are too many kids out there without enough food or a roof over their heads.

Is that selfish? I don't think so. I think it's more selfish to have children when you are unprepared both monetarily and psychologically for them. It's one thing to bring a baby into this world, it's another to bring it into the world for purely selfish reasons. Its even worse when those children must suffer through neglect due to bad parenting. Most people who have kids shouldn't be having them anyway.

For some people it may be a cultural imperative to have children, but not for me. I'm perfectly happy for now without kids of my own.

 

[Screamarie]

I could go into a whole rant about it being expected of women and all that malarkey but I think I'll just skim it cause I'm tired and I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't already been mentioned.

Anyways, at least for women, it's the view that you're not willing to give of yourself to raise a child. It's extremely flawed logical but for a lot of people it is a common view, especially for older generations, that women are SUPPOSED to have children (not able, not possibly, SUPPOSED TO), which means that if you're not going to do that, then you're selfish, you're more concerned with yourself than what you're SUPPOSED to be doing as a woman.

As for have I personally experienced it? Well no one has ever walked up to me and declared me a heathen for it, but I know that in my family people are kind of just...waiting for me to have kids. No one woman in my family before HASN'T had children. I often state that I hate children and babies, I don't want kids, and that I don't see myself as good mom material...but then they pony out that phrase "oh it's different when it's your own!" Yeah and I believe you, squirt out a brat, hate it as much as everyone else's kids and end up on the five o'clock news for doing something truly heinous.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

it wasn't the opening gambit in a debate it was a stated pov.

you disagree. how interesting...

Nothing interesting about it, actually. While I'm done with that particular issue, that doesn't mean I'm going to sit idle as you put words in my mouth in an accusatory manner as if there were ulterior motives. This is a discussion forum. Discussion is the key word there. If you're not prepared to actually discuss something you post with other people on the aforementioned discussion forum, then what are you doing there?

And I recommend that if this continues, it be switched over to private messages.

 

[MetalMagpie]

discussion value, have you or somone you know ever encountered this kind of attitude? can you explain why not having kids is somhow selfish/non-selfish? and what do you think about it in general? [/B]

I think you might have got the wrong end of the stick.

My mother's view is that people with children are less selfish than those without, but that this isn't because the decision to have kids is unselfish. (There are many arguments to support the view that - in an overpopulated world - it's better if some people don't!) Instead, it's simply because the experience of bringing up children makes people less selfish.

People with children get used to having to make sacrifices. They have less money, less time, and more stress. Children are demanding and unreasonable, meaning parents are forced to stop prioritising their own life. My mother's childless friends express outright disbelief that anyone would get up at 5am just to drive their child to a sports competition. But my mother really did do this not long ago. And I'm twenty-four! (I don't own a car and couldn't get there any other way.)

To stress: The idea that childless couples are "selfish" really has nothing to do with whether or not having kids is "good" for humanity or not. It's about how highly people tend to prioritise their own wants and needs.

Is that a reason to have kids? Of course it isn't. But - since you asked - that's the reason why childless couples are sometimes referred to as "more selfish".

 

[dobahci]

Why would something be wrong with them for not wanting kids? In their own personal lives, has anything actually changed that would make kids better for their aspirations in life?

If a pandemic really did wipe out 99.9% of the world's population, then it's pretty damn likely that their aspirations of life underwent a massive shift, unless somehow they had always dreamed about growing up to become one of those people who would have to rebuild human civilization after a worldwide calamity. Not one of those things that usually comes up in career counseling.

No, but seriously, in that kind of situation, human society would be at a much more fragile state and would largely hinge on every person doing their part for the revival of the species (in the words of Dr. Isaac Kleiner). I'd say it'd be each person's responsibility to have kids in that case. Naturally, people still have free will, so they could decline to reproduce if they so desired -- but I think very few would refuse.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

I think that having more than one child is very selfish. The planet is already overpopulated and that's just you, who already had a child then gets another one for no real reason. It's not beneficial to anyone, except you and not really that either.

Adopting is kind of good I guess, but I wouldn't do it.

Um, but the country someone is living in may not be overpopulated. Looking at it on a global scale doesn't seem very productive. For instance in Japan they really could use more people having kids. Certain countries are overpopulated, others are not.

Yeah............................. Except that people in rich countries use a lot of the resources and adopting from overpopulated countries would still be better than getting more than one child.