so... Orson Scott Card... boycott why?

Dr. Cakey

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gsilver said:
I view art and artists separately. If I boycotted the work of everyone who I thought was a jerk or simply disagreed with (or even sought out their works because of their politics) then that would be a pretty messed up mindset.

So, I played through Fez because it's a great game, no matter who Phil Fish is. I also won't see Ender's Game because I've read that the adaptation kind of sucks.
Isn't Phil Fish having significant difficulties with social interaction kind of on a different level than Orson Scott Card being a repellent human being?
 

Thaluikhain

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rhizhim said:
gay rights are on the rise (damn thats sond kind of weird) and there is nothing yo could do to stop it.
from where i see it, Orson Scott Card is blowing all his money to temper something that cant be stopped.
Can't be stopped? Even assuming that is the case, they can certainly be delayed.

For that matter, legal rights are not the be all and end all. Gay people suffer from enough amounts of discrimination, people like OSC really are not helping.
 

DarkhoIlow

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I don't think I've ever boycotted something because someone involved in the particular movie had a different stance than mine...be it being against gay people or other controversial topics.

I haven't read the book but I've heard good things about the movie so I will go see it. It's a movie that interests me, I really don't give a damn about OSC as a person at all.
 

wulf3n

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My two cents on the whole OSC boycott issue...

To me it reeks of the weekend activist. The person who will "fight" for an issue when it's convenient, but isn't willing to commit. Like the person who buys a Prius but still leaves all of their electrical appliances on all day.

In this OSC boycott, people can boycott if they want it's their money, they can decide who gets it for what reason (or not).

But what makes everyone think OSC is the "worst" person to be making money off of this film? what about other films? Does anyone here bother to check every credit of a movie to ensure people with potentially dangerous beliefs aren't profiting?
 

Sean951

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I wouldn't say I boycott things, but I don't buy Apple because I dislike their business practices, I don't eat at Chik-fil-A becauce I think their CEO is a homophobe (and it was very "meh" the one time I had it), and I won't buy Card's books because every other book by him that I have read was filled with political rantings and I find him morally abhorrent.

All that said, I will probably go see the movie if only to show Hollywood that awesome space sci-fi is a genre worth supporting. Besides, not like any of the other Ender/Bean books could be turned in to a movie...
 

Diddy_Mao

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The man is a bigot, plain and simple and I have moral issues with supporting bigotry.
I don't watch Glen Beck or Bill Maher (despite being an active Infidel myself) or buy their books for much the same reasons.

The only reason that this particular topic is a point of controversy is because Ender's Game is, for a lot of folks, an important piece of fiction in the history of the science fiction genre and some people have trouble divorcing the creation from the creator.

It's compounded by the fact that Card has been very open with his bigotry, making it exceptionally more difficult to ignore the fact that supporting his work will is some way support his completely abhorrent ideologies.

wulfy42 said:
And who cares if he gets money to support lobbying and advertisements etc...gay marriage is already available in many states and accepted federally (for taxes etc) so does it really matter anymore?
14 states within the US have fully recognized and legalized same sex marriages.
While an additional 5 will recognize "civil unions" and allow for "limited rights and state privileges."
And in virtually every case, they have fought an uphill battle due to organizations like the National Organization for Marriage (of which Card was a board member.)

The rest of the country still flat out bans same sex marriages with the more vehement ones going so far as to refuse recognition of marriages performed in other states and denying rights to any non-married union regardless of gender.

But yeah...I guess they should be happy with what they got.
 

Quadocky

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BreakfastMan said:
Quadocky said:
Given the rise of the internet I think its incredibly hard to separate the artist from the art. People like Orson or even that guy who created Earthworm Jim, as talented or successful as they are does not excuse them from acting like total shitheads. We deserve better.

But of course I cannot help but mention that hatred of homosexuals (I.E MALE homosexuals) stems from outright misogyny in every case I have seen.
I honestly have no problem with creators acting like shitheads (I still love Fez and really want Fez 2, despite Fish being a dick, for instance). What I, and many other people, have problems with is the creators actively going out of their way to oppress people, which Card does. I don't mind purchasing things made by Tennapel, despite his homophobia. I do mind purchasing things made by Card, because he will take some of the money I give to him and use it to try and oppress people, and I can't morally justify that.
That is reasonable.

I just get so tired of people spouting shit when they should very well know better. But Nope instead they use their awfulness as a way to define themselves as literal walking assholes.
 

wulf3n

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Master of the Skies said:
And what's the point with this line of argument? The only logical conclusion would be to suggest people do more, which it hardly looks like you are doing.
Are you willing to go through the stake holders of every product and or service you buy to ensure people like Orson Scott Card don't get money to fuel their agenda?

If not then I find it hard to take the opinion "I'm going to boycott Enders Game because I don't want to support homophobic Agendas" seriously [I'm not saying you said that or have that opinion].

This comes off as an attempt by many to score progressive brownie points, or to stroke their own ego over any real attempt at hindering homophobic organisations.

Like the Prius owner who claims they're doing their part for the environment or the Vegetarian who is appalled animal cruelty but still eats fish.
 

Olas

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Mcoffey said:
OlasDAlmighty said:
I don't understand it either OP. I think a person who creates a good work of art or entertainment should be rewarded for his work, regardless of his unrelated personal beliefs.

When buying food at the grocery store, do you research to see what food companies are run by homophobic CEOs? Do you decide what electronics to buy based on the political beliefs of their designers? After all, your purchasing decisions will end up contributing money to these people.

I'm going to guess no.

Why is it different with Card? Are we worried that his anti-gay agenda is somehow reflected in his science fiction story about battling aliens? Or is it simply because he's more visible to us than these other people?

Regardless I think we should have more than a 1 dimensional view of him. You can disagree with someone while still appreciating them for things they've contributed.
People do this all the time. Some people don't buy certain electronics if they're made with conflict minerals, or cosmetics if they've been tested on animals. It's about what you're morally comfortable contributing to.
That's a totally different situation. You're talking about products who's creation directly involves causing harm to someone or something. Unless the filming of this movie actually prevented gays from getting married somehow, I don't think you can argue that this is even close to being analogous to those instances.

If you really, truly believe that choosing to go see this movie is going to somehow impact the livelihood of gay people, I guess I can sorta understand why you'd boycott it. But that's just not the case. Orson Card is receiving $0 from this movie, and if you're worried about giving him publicity; this controversy has given him way more publicity than a film credit would.
 

drummond13

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Ritualist said:
drummond13 said:
Nobody is saying the movie in any way promotes his controversial agendas, either directly or metaphorically. People are just angry at Card for actively fighting against gay rights, and so feel that supporting the movie is, in a sense, financially supporting him. Which it is, if only marginally.
If the movie does well enough they will probably pay him more money to turn more of his books into movies. You cannot deny that. We're STILL making Friday the 13th movies.
It's not a marginal support to watch this movie. It's a huge support, even if your reasons for seeing it have nothing to do with supporting him.


That being said, it IS just a movie, and hundreds of people besides Card worked on it. Hardly seems fair to me to punish all those people along with him just because he's the author.
Every single person who worked on the movie is paid up front for their work. Regardless of whether or not the movie does well. Hollywood is a union job. Key grip? Union. Camera 1? Union job. Stunt coordinator? Union job. The fucking actors? UNION JOB. They all work on contracts, the people on screen get paid up front, the people behind the scenes usually get paid every two weeks usually with a possibility for a bonus afterwards. The only people who have to worry about recouping ANY form of losses, are the executives who put up the money for it to be made. That includes the shit suckers who paid Card for the rights.
I shouldn't feel bad for not supporting Card just because it MIGHT hurt the feelings of the people who worked on it. What about MY feelings? Since we're taking into account everyone's. How do you think I feel that Harrison Ford is starring in a movie that only exists because of a raging bigot? He's starring in a movie who's production is supporting the bigoted agenda. Harrison Ford lost all respect in my eyes for being in this. But hey, he's an actor. He does it for the craft. Well too bad.
One person buying one ticket to this movie IS marginal support. Which is the only choice any of us have to make in this instance.

What about your feelings? You're free to express your feelings any way you like, be it in not buying a ticket to the movie, or ranting on a forum like this one. Go nuts. Deprive those likely-not-homophobic film executives for no reason other than they bought the rights to a popular science fiction book that has nothing to do with the cause you're fighting against. We all know that Card, a bestselling author for decades, would be broke without the revenue from this film. Crush him with your boycott!
 

wulf3n

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Master of the Skies said:
Right and who exactly are they scoring brownie points for and why?
Themselves? the internet community at large?

I'm guessing the who is dependant on the individual. The why is simple, people like to look good and noble to others. How many people here are putting in the effort to be good and noble.

The question I have is why Enders Game and not anything else?

Orson Scott Card isn't the only ass hole in Hollywood.

Master of the Skies said:
I'm not seeing why you jump to this "They have an ulterior motive!" idea versus people being lazy.
It's not necessarily an issue of an ulterior motive but the idea of claiming the moral high ground.

We're all lazy.