societal conventions you hate

[Ace of Spades]

The inconsistency of feminism and chivalry. I'm really tempted to just sit down, fold my arms, and demand that the female species collectively decide whether it's acceptable for me to hold the door open for a woman. That and the romanticized view of alcohol that most of my peers seem to hold. I'm quite tired of being told that I'm uptight or boring because I don't see the appeal in being drunk.

 

[zeldagirl]

snip

Ok I don't think I expressed myself very well in my last post.When I said "how often do you hear of female chivalry" what I meant was how often do you hear people use that term?I never meant to suggest that women aren't generous etc.

I simply meant that the word chivalry is usually associated with men(probably due to the whole knighthood thing).Ask your average person what it means and they'll probably mention stuff like a man holding a door open for a lady etc

You still aren't quite getting it. YES, I'm aware that society doesn't perceive it that way - and that is wrong. As ViaGalactica says after your post, it's a double standard.


It's not women's fault that women don't get credit for being chivalrous. It's society's. And that's an example of unfair treatment that women have to deal with on a day to day basis. You've made my point for me.

Men complain that women don't let them be chivalrous, with the expectation that women must be chivalrous (they don't USE THAT TERM, but that's essentially what it is). But if a woman doesn't act chivalrous, she's a *****, or an 'independent woman that hate's on men.' Can you not see how unfair that is? Who is complaining of special treatment, then? Men EXPECT that women act a certain way for THEM when they as men treat women in a certain way. Isn't that just men expecting "special treatment"?



(hint: it is)

 

[zeldagirl]

The inconsistency of feminism and chivalry. I'm really tempted to just sit down, fold my arms, and demand that the female species collectively decide whether it's acceptable for me to hold the door open for a woman. That and the romanticized view of alcohol that most of my peers seem to hold. I'm quite tired of being told that I'm uptight or boring because I don't see the appeal in being drunk.

Read my posts in the thread. Women want to be treated with respect. If you try to actively do that, you're fine. But specifically:


This is not something that is inherent in women. It is inherent in HUMANS. ALL people do this. All people are hypocrites.

Also, wanting FAIR and EQUITABLE treatment =/= special treatment. The fact of the matter is, women have traditionally gotten less than equitable treatment.

The next time you think a woman is demanding fair treatment, try to place yourself in her shoes, and use something called the pile-on-principle. Throughout the course of any day, as woman, I usually encounter several individuals (male) who in one way or another think I am incompetent. They don't trust me with certain work loads or tasks. Now imagine this happens for hours on end. And it's hard to say anything in the position you are in - things keep *piling* on (this is a key word).

Now imagine that woman is walking towards a door, and you, as a man, open it for her. That's not a bad thing to do - it's quite nice. But all day long, she's been feeling like men have been assuming she's incapable of doing anything for herself. She's been *piled on*. Just the simple act of opening a door for her can be upsetting, because it's just one more thing that it seems men are assuming she can't do.

Do you see how she could be upset? That's not saying she's entirely in the right. But try to think next time, before you disparage a woman for requesting 'special treatment' or exerting independence, that perhaps she's had experiences that have made her feel inconsequential due to members of your gender.

I hope that makes sense.

But, again, I ultimately will go back to my last point: maybe some women will ask for special treatment regardless of their experiences. The point is, MEN do to. All humans do; we innately think we are deserving of certain treatment in some contexts at some points in our lives. Unfortunately, in this topic at least, only women are being called out for it.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Women are usually getting the cake and eating it.
The whole feministic approach to things, in which women are independant but on the other hand some women also require men to be chivalrous AT THE SAME TIME.

This... is gonna cause some arguing.

OT: People getting all worried about sexuality. Gods damn it, can't you people calm down about what other people do in their bedrooms (or anywhere else they feel like doing it). So long as it's consensual between everybody involved, then I don't see anything wrong with it. In fact people need to chill a bit about sex in general (at least here in the states). It's a natural part of life, there's no reason to be ashamed or freaked out by it.

 

[BioHazardMan]

John Lennon wasn't great? Lol

The dislike for the less patriotic, or anti-religious individuals like myself (Atheists, agnostics). I would also include most other religions as not liked in America.

 

[Ace of Spades]

The inconsistency of feminism and chivalry. I'm really tempted to just sit down, fold my arms, and demand that the female species collectively decide whether it's acceptable for me to hold the door open for a woman. That and the romanticized view of alcohol that most of my peers seem to hold. I'm quite tired of being told that I'm uptight or boring because I don't see the appeal in being drunk.

Read my posts in the thread. Women want to be treated with respect. If you try to actively do that, you're fine. But specifically:


This is not something that is inherent in women. It is inherent in HUMANS. ALL people do this. All people are hypocrites.

Also, wanting FAIR and EQUITABLE treatment =/= special treatment. The fact of the matter is, women have traditionally gotten less than equitable treatment.

The next time you think a woman is demanding fair treatment, try to place yourself in her shoes, and use something called the pile-on-principle. Throughout the course of any day, as woman, I usually encounter several individuals (male) who in one way or another think I am incompetent. They don't trust me with certain work loads or tasks. Now imagine this happens for hours on end. And it's hard to say anything in the position you are in - things keep *piling* on (this is a key word).

Now imagine that woman is walking towards a door, and you, as a man, open it for her. That's not a bad thing to do - it's quite nice. But all day long, she's been feeling like men have been assuming she's incapable of doing anything for herself. She's been *piled on*. Just the simple act of opening a door for her can be upsetting, because it's just one more thing that it seems men are assuming she can't do.

Do you see how she could be upset? That's not saying she's entirely in the right. But try to think next time, before you disparage a woman for requesting 'special treatment' or exerting independence, that perhaps she's had experiences that have made her feel inconsequential do to members of your gender.

I hope that makes sense.

But, again, I ultimately will go back to my last point: maybe some women will ask for special treatment regardless of their experiences. The point is, MEN do to. All humans do; we innately think we are deserving of certain treatment in some contexts at some points in our lives. Unfortunately, in this topic at least, only women are being called out for it.

I admit, I wasn't expecting a well-formed response to my post, so kudos, but yes that does make sense. The only problem is that I'm not very good at discerning people's motivations for being snippy, which can often make me seem a bit callous, and I've had to explain to someone on more than one occasion throughout my life why I lashed out at them despite the fact that they didn't deserve it. I'll try to remember your post in the future.

 

[Mute52]

Nobody dresses nice anymore. Or wears fancy hats

 

[dcdude171]

1.) ok for the people that said , no suits in the business world , the point of the suit , is to look professional , and be appealing to other people, people arent gonna pay attention to some ass in track pants and a hoody. It makes you look professional.

2.) to the people complain about how woman want to be equal but still have chiverly ..... seriously guys ? woman are woman , men are men, there are things that will be the way they are till the end of time , men should treat woman repectivly, and chiverlous because thats the way it is , its called tradtion , its called values.

3.) Societal conventions I hate , are most of the modern day ones now . In the 21th centurary people have come to lose all values, anything goes. I also hate how famous people like that cast of the jeresy can be famous for being dumb fucks .

 

[KiraTaureLor]

Women usually getting the cake and eating it.
The whole feministic approach to things, in which women are independant but on the other hand some women also require men to be chivalrous AT THE SAME TIME.

this, entirely this, though probably phrased more succinctly.

also, people who use unnecessarily long words...

EDIT thats not a convention, is it -.-

still, i agree with the dude i quoted.

Technically you have the power, but since men tend to bend backwards for the sake of a woman's touch, gives women the ability to demand anything!!!

 

[zeldagirl]

I admit, I wasn't expecting a well-formed response to my post, so kudos, but yes that does make sense. The only problem is that I'm not very good at discerning people's motivations for being snippy, which can often make me seem a bit callous, and I've had to explain to someone on more than one occasion throughout my life why I lashed out at them despite the fact that they didn't deserve it. I'll try to remember your post in the future.

I understand - and you aren't alone in those sentiments. I think all people need to do a better job of trying to empathize with others and realizing that interactions don't take place inside a vacuum - there's context for everything. It's hard to live by, but it's definitely worth it.

And thanks - I admit, I wasn't expecting a KIND response to my post. But hopefully, I can offer a new perspective.

 

[Zantos]

Needing to keep quiet about being a bisexual and being an atheist in public. It's suicide to declare it in certain parts of the country, and you lose co-workers just for not being a homophobic Christian (or just not being a Christian). I'd rather like being able to share my personal views at the same time everyone else is sharing theirs, instead of biting my tongue and saying nothing while they slam my lifestyle and lack of belief.

Although that's been a non-issue for me since we moved, I still don't like that part of society.

I have EXACTLY the opposite problem. Wanna swap?

OT: Scratching. Why is it society requires I wait til I'm somewhere private before I'm allowed to have-at with discomfort in my lower regions?

 

[Randomeaninglessword]

I hate when symbols are seen as evil. Like the Swastika. It used to be a symbol of good luck(among other things), but thanks to Hitler(who also ruined Toothbrush mustaches) everybody assumes something/somebody is associated with the Nazis if it/they are any where near a Swastika. At least that's what it's like where I live. I'm only using the Swastika as an example, this is not just specifically directed towards it.

 

[OrokuSaki]

The insistance that one has to be a "productive" member of a society that is very intolerant of peoples differences, regardless of the fact that they encourage children to be as different as possible.

For instance, a teacher will tell a child to think outside of the box to create an interesting science project.
But disagreeing with your boss and giving an example of an alternative to their idea gets you fired.

Also I hate how saying "curse words" is frowned upon publicly. I like cursing,

 

[Sudenak]

I have EXACTLY the opposite problem. Wanna swap?

As I said to someone else, I don't want a society where I'm on the side of the people carrying the proverbial torches and pitchforks. I want that tasty middle ground, where everyone can just be who they are, how they please, without needing to violently attack other people for not being identical.

 

[Zantos]

I have EXACTLY the opposite problem. Wanna swap?

As I said to someone else, I don't want a society where I'm on the side of the people carrying the proverbial torches and pitchforks. I want that tasty middle ground, where everyone can just be who they are, how they please, without needing to violently attack other people for not being identical.

Idealist! Burn him!

That would be a really nice place. Not in the near future though unfortunately

I hate when symbols are seen as evil. Like the Swastika. It used to be a symbol of good luck(among other things), but thanks to Hitler(who also ruined Toothbrush mustaches) everybody assumes something/somebody is associated with the Nazis if it/they are any where near a Swastika. At least that's what it's like where I live. I'm only using the Swastika as an example, this is not just specifically directed towards it.

He ruined the combover too.

 

[eels05]

I dont know how it is in other countries but in Australia our drinking culture is out of control.
Its pretty much treated as a right of passage into adulthood if you drink yourself into oblivian on a regular basis.
What shits me is the pride we as a county seem to take in it.

Oh yeah and if its not booze its the almost virus-like spread of every other form of drug.People are chuffing that shit down in record numbers these days just for the sake of getting fucked up.
Its like the worlds fucked up so we may as well be as well.What ever happened to shaping the world we want to live in?

So yeah,for me out of control Hedonism is a massive problem.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Please clarify, I support the feminist movement of equal rights, but i think radical feminism is more about going back to old style power holding just with someone else holding the leash.

I'd like a clarification on this replace social institutions. What is there to replace other than the standard misogyny our society was saddled with for so long? Isn't that the core principle of feminism either way.

Well, as I understand it, the idea is that since society has been based on misogyny, the social institutions that have been developed are inherently misogynistic, and that it is either more difficult or impossible to change them into something egalitarian than it is to replace them altogether. They believe that sweeping reforms are needed.

I simply can't see how you are dividing standard feminists from the crazy radical ones.

Um...which branch of feminism do you hold to be "standard"? Liberal? Socialist? Seperatist?

There are any number of different schools of thought within the broad spectrum of feminism, "radical feminism" just happens to be the name of one of them. It hardly denotes being crazy.