societal conventions you hate

[zeldagirl]

The inconsistency of feminism and chivalry. I'm really tempted to just sit down, fold my arms, and demand that the female species collectively decide whether it's acceptable for me to hold the door open for a woman. That and the romanticized view of alcohol that most of my peers seem to hold. I'm quite tired of being told that I'm uptight or boring because I don't see the appeal in being drunk.

Read my posts in the thread. Women want to be treated with respect. If you try to actively do that, you're fine. But specifically:


This is not something that is inherent in women. It is inherent in HUMANS. ALL people do this. All people are hypocrites.

Also, wanting FAIR and EQUITABLE treatment =/= special treatment. The fact of the matter is, women have traditionally gotten less than equitable treatment.

The next time you think a woman is demanding fair treatment, try to place yourself in her shoes, and use something called the pile-on-principle. Throughout the course of any day, as woman, I usually encounter several individuals (male) who in one way or another think I am incompetent. They don't trust me with certain work loads or tasks. Now imagine this happens for hours on end. And it's hard to say anything in the position you are in - things keep *piling* on (this is a key word).

Now imagine that woman is walking towards a door, and you, as a man, open it for her. That's not a bad thing to do - it's quite nice. But all day long, she's been feeling like men have been assuming she's incapable of doing anything for herself. She's been *piled on*. Just the simple act of opening a door for her can be upsetting, because it's just one more thing that it seems men are assuming she can't do.

Do you see how she could be upset? That's not saying she's entirely in the right. But try to think next time, before you disparage a woman for requesting 'special treatment' or exerting independence, that perhaps she's had experiences that have made her feel inconsequential due to members of your gender.

I hope that makes sense.

But, again, I ultimately will go back to my last point: maybe some women will ask for special treatment regardless of their experiences. The point is, MEN do to. All humans do; we innately think we are deserving of certain treatment in some contexts at some points in our lives. Unfortunately, in this topic at least, only women are being called out for it.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Women are usually getting the cake and eating it.
The whole feministic approach to things, in which women are independant but on the other hand some women also require men to be chivalrous AT THE SAME TIME.

This... is gonna cause some arguing.

OT: People getting all worried about sexuality. Gods damn it, can't you people calm down about what other people do in their bedrooms (or anywhere else they feel like doing it). So long as it's consensual between everybody involved, then I don't see anything wrong with it. In fact people need to chill a bit about sex in general (at least here in the states). It's a natural part of life, there's no reason to be ashamed or freaked out by it.

 

[BioHazardMan]

John Lennon wasn't great? Lol

The dislike for the less patriotic, or anti-religious individuals like myself (Atheists, agnostics). I would also include most other religions as not liked in America.

 

[Ace of Spades]

The inconsistency of feminism and chivalry. I'm really tempted to just sit down, fold my arms, and demand that the female species collectively decide whether it's acceptable for me to hold the door open for a woman. That and the romanticized view of alcohol that most of my peers seem to hold. I'm quite tired of being told that I'm uptight or boring because I don't see the appeal in being drunk.

Read my posts in the thread. Women want to be treated with respect. If you try to actively do that, you're fine. But specifically:


This is not something that is inherent in women. It is inherent in HUMANS. ALL people do this. All people are hypocrites.

Also, wanting FAIR and EQUITABLE treatment =/= special treatment. The fact of the matter is, women have traditionally gotten less than equitable treatment.

The next time you think a woman is demanding fair treatment, try to place yourself in her shoes, and use something called the pile-on-principle. Throughout the course of any day, as woman, I usually encounter several individuals (male) who in one way or another think I am incompetent. They don't trust me with certain work loads or tasks. Now imagine this happens for hours on end. And it's hard to say anything in the position you are in - things keep *piling* on (this is a key word).

Now imagine that woman is walking towards a door, and you, as a man, open it for her. That's not a bad thing to do - it's quite nice. But all day long, she's been feeling like men have been assuming she's incapable of doing anything for herself. She's been *piled on*. Just the simple act of opening a door for her can be upsetting, because it's just one more thing that it seems men are assuming she can't do.

Do you see how she could be upset? That's not saying she's entirely in the right. But try to think next time, before you disparage a woman for requesting 'special treatment' or exerting independence, that perhaps she's had experiences that have made her feel inconsequential do to members of your gender.

I hope that makes sense.

But, again, I ultimately will go back to my last point: maybe some women will ask for special treatment regardless of their experiences. The point is, MEN do to. All humans do; we innately think we are deserving of certain treatment in some contexts at some points in our lives. Unfortunately, in this topic at least, only women are being called out for it.

I admit, I wasn't expecting a well-formed response to my post, so kudos, but yes that does make sense. The only problem is that I'm not very good at discerning people's motivations for being snippy, which can often make me seem a bit callous, and I've had to explain to someone on more than one occasion throughout my life why I lashed out at them despite the fact that they didn't deserve it. I'll try to remember your post in the future.

 

[Mute52]

Nobody dresses nice anymore. Or wears fancy hats

 

[dcdude171]

1.) ok for the people that said , no suits in the business world , the point of the suit , is to look professional , and be appealing to other people, people arent gonna pay attention to some ass in track pants and a hoody. It makes you look professional.

2.) to the people complain about how woman want to be equal but still have chiverly ..... seriously guys ? woman are woman , men are men, there are things that will be the way they are till the end of time , men should treat woman repectivly, and chiverlous because thats the way it is , its called tradtion , its called values.

3.) Societal conventions I hate , are most of the modern day ones now . In the 21th centurary people have come to lose all values, anything goes. I also hate how famous people like that cast of the jeresy can be famous for being dumb fucks .

 

[KiraTaureLor]

Women usually getting the cake and eating it.
The whole feministic approach to things, in which women are independant but on the other hand some women also require men to be chivalrous AT THE SAME TIME.

this, entirely this, though probably phrased more succinctly.

also, people who use unnecessarily long words...

EDIT thats not a convention, is it -.-

still, i agree with the dude i quoted.

Technically you have the power, but since men tend to bend backwards for the sake of a woman's touch, gives women the ability to demand anything!!!

 

[zeldagirl]

I admit, I wasn't expecting a well-formed response to my post, so kudos, but yes that does make sense. The only problem is that I'm not very good at discerning people's motivations for being snippy, which can often make me seem a bit callous, and I've had to explain to someone on more than one occasion throughout my life why I lashed out at them despite the fact that they didn't deserve it. I'll try to remember your post in the future.

I understand - and you aren't alone in those sentiments. I think all people need to do a better job of trying to empathize with others and realizing that interactions don't take place inside a vacuum - there's context for everything. It's hard to live by, but it's definitely worth it.

And thanks - I admit, I wasn't expecting a KIND response to my post. But hopefully, I can offer a new perspective.

 

[Zantos]

Needing to keep quiet about being a bisexual and being an atheist in public. It's suicide to declare it in certain parts of the country, and you lose co-workers just for not being a homophobic Christian (or just not being a Christian). I'd rather like being able to share my personal views at the same time everyone else is sharing theirs, instead of biting my tongue and saying nothing while they slam my lifestyle and lack of belief.

Although that's been a non-issue for me since we moved, I still don't like that part of society.

I have EXACTLY the opposite problem. Wanna swap?

OT: Scratching. Why is it society requires I wait til I'm somewhere private before I'm allowed to have-at with discomfort in my lower regions?

 

[Randomeaninglessword]

I hate when symbols are seen as evil. Like the Swastika. It used to be a symbol of good luck(among other things), but thanks to Hitler(who also ruined Toothbrush mustaches) everybody assumes something/somebody is associated with the Nazis if it/they are any where near a Swastika. At least that's what it's like where I live. I'm only using the Swastika as an example, this is not just specifically directed towards it.

 

[OrokuSaki]

The insistance that one has to be a "productive" member of a society that is very intolerant of peoples differences, regardless of the fact that they encourage children to be as different as possible.

For instance, a teacher will tell a child to think outside of the box to create an interesting science project.
But disagreeing with your boss and giving an example of an alternative to their idea gets you fired.

Also I hate how saying "curse words" is frowned upon publicly. I like cursing,

 

[Sudenak]

I have EXACTLY the opposite problem. Wanna swap?

As I said to someone else, I don't want a society where I'm on the side of the people carrying the proverbial torches and pitchforks. I want that tasty middle ground, where everyone can just be who they are, how they please, without needing to violently attack other people for not being identical.

 

[Zantos]

I have EXACTLY the opposite problem. Wanna swap?

As I said to someone else, I don't want a society where I'm on the side of the people carrying the proverbial torches and pitchforks. I want that tasty middle ground, where everyone can just be who they are, how they please, without needing to violently attack other people for not being identical.

Idealist! Burn him!

That would be a really nice place. Not in the near future though unfortunately

I hate when symbols are seen as evil. Like the Swastika. It used to be a symbol of good luck(among other things), but thanks to Hitler(who also ruined Toothbrush mustaches) everybody assumes something/somebody is associated with the Nazis if it/they are any where near a Swastika. At least that's what it's like where I live. I'm only using the Swastika as an example, this is not just specifically directed towards it.

He ruined the combover too.

 

[eels05]

I dont know how it is in other countries but in Australia our drinking culture is out of control.
Its pretty much treated as a right of passage into adulthood if you drink yourself into oblivian on a regular basis.
What shits me is the pride we as a county seem to take in it.

Oh yeah and if its not booze its the almost virus-like spread of every other form of drug.People are chuffing that shit down in record numbers these days just for the sake of getting fucked up.
Its like the worlds fucked up so we may as well be as well.What ever happened to shaping the world we want to live in?

So yeah,for me out of control Hedonism is a massive problem.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Please clarify, I support the feminist movement of equal rights, but i think radical feminism is more about going back to old style power holding just with someone else holding the leash.

I'd like a clarification on this replace social institutions. What is there to replace other than the standard misogyny our society was saddled with for so long? Isn't that the core principle of feminism either way.

Well, as I understand it, the idea is that since society has been based on misogyny, the social institutions that have been developed are inherently misogynistic, and that it is either more difficult or impossible to change them into something egalitarian than it is to replace them altogether. They believe that sweeping reforms are needed.

I simply can't see how you are dividing standard feminists from the crazy radical ones.

Um...which branch of feminism do you hold to be "standard"? Liberal? Socialist? Seperatist?

There are any number of different schools of thought within the broad spectrum of feminism, "radical feminism" just happens to be the name of one of them. It hardly denotes being crazy.

 

[ace_of_something]

It annoys me how it's okay for people to say how much they hate cats and would kill one rather than own it. If a person were to say this about dogs people would place you as an outcast.
Second man owns cat = gay

Really stupid.

If someone were to say that about cats to me, I think I'd punch them. You don't tell me you'd kill cats.

It's really very bizarre. People in the city seem to think animals are just a nuisance and mean nothing, abuse is no big deal.
Out in the country, where the rednecks are, they get really serious about animal abuse. Sure they hunt animals but starving or just being a dick is something they will (and have) carried out vigilante justice for.

 

[loodmoney]

Re: chivalry: I had a friend who studied its history at one point. The way she summed up one of the old codes: "If you (a lady) are alone, then a man cannot rape you. If you are with a man, another man can kill him and then rape you." Chivalry was and is sexist. If you (a man) holds open a door for a lady because she is a lady, that is sexist. If you expect some kind of reward for holding a door open for a lady because she is a lady, you are sexist and a douchebag. If a woman gets pissed at you for holding open a door, perhaps you gave the impression of awaiting some kind of reward. Perhaps she is having a bad day. Perhaps she has, as zeldagirl said, been piled on by other people before you. There are plenty of reasons why she might be angry, none of which are a result of any problem with feminism or women.

Holding open a door is not something you should be doing based on biology, but on physics. Is the door going to swing in the other person's face if you don't hold it open? Then hold it open. Did you reach the door first, and opening and walking through it first will require you to occupy the same space at the same time as the other person? Hold it open. What is or is not between the other person's legs is irrelevant.

So while there is an inconsistency between feminism and chivalry, feminists don't want chivalry, but politeness. There is no inconsistency between feminism and politeness.

 

[ViaGalactica]

Really? A man gets called that whenever he does something nice for a woman? Golly gee, I sure would like to have whats considered 'chivalrous' recognized. Oh wait, that's right. Its 'expected of me by society', as you so eloquently put it, that I do this things.

Yeah, but see, that's not the point of chivalry. At all. If you are only being kind and polite to women because you want to be praised or recognized then you are doing chivalry wrong. But dude, chances are, at some point, some girl, lady or woman will tell you when you hold the door for her: "What a nice young man." If I were to hold the door for a girl, lady or some woman, I wouldn't even get a side-glance. And if I were to hold the door for a man, I'll just get a glare. (I've gotten those before.)

And of course, no guy has ever been called an asshole, and girls NEVER deserve to be called *****. Right?

Congratulations on completely missing the point dude.

I never said that men are never called assholes. I never said that women don't deserve to be called a ***** on certain situations. I never said any of this.

What I said was, however, that when a woman shows a side of her that isn't nice and kind and sweet, people will just assume she's a cold *****. If a man doesn't go around smiling and being nice he is 'mysterious'. When a woman states her opinion in an argument, she's a *****. When a man states his opinion in an argument, he's just passionate. When a woman tries to be authoritative, she's...guess what? Yes, a *****. When a man does it, he's a leader.

The default attitude that society needs women to have is that of harmless and soothing happiness and cuteness and all things fluffy. When we dare deviate from that, chances are someone will call you a *****. Or some entitled stranger will come to you and tell you to smile! How dare you not smile? And when you don't smile...

And of course men get called assholes, many men are assholes. What's your point on this? Are you saying that men get called assholes when simply trying to be polite? If that's the case the other person is a douchebag. Or the man did something that wasn't entirely polite.

 

[Biosophilogical]

OT: Men being confrontational and insecure about their masculinity/intelligence. Gets very frustrating dealing with some of my male friends who uphold this convention when they just got out of a heated debate(which they lost)...

The thing with this is that it is a circular event. The social convention of being 'masculine' exists, which means that men fear being considered in a negative light[footnote]Being non-masculine in and of itself isn't bad, but when it is considered a bad thing by society at large, then it becomes a bad thing simply because of the normal view[/footnote], which means they try and act manly all the time, a facade which includes demoralising non-masucline males[footnote]Because you can't ever be seen showing anything less than utter intolerance towards something that you shouldn't like[/footnote], which in turn makes other males act masculine to avoid social disapproval from wider society, which just continues the cycle.

So truthfully, I don't blame the men who act manly but actually are just putting on a mask (because it is entirely understandable), I blame the men who act 'manly' because they are actually just that kind of person (including the whole 'put down' side of it) and any women who help perpetuate this view (and the same applies in reverse for men perpetuating the 'weak wall-flower-slut' view of women).

In my opinion, the most attractive type of people are those who have empathy, integrity and confidence. I don't care if you like anime, gardening, cooking, weight-lifting, etc, as long as you are confident in who you are and understand (and express this understanding) that your likes, dislikes and views aren't necessarily better or worse than other people's. Honestly, guy or girl, if you have these attributes (which for me has always been grouped under 'honour'[footnote]Because I think these traits are honourable traits, not because I think these traits conform to an ideal of honour alternate to my own[/footnote]) then I will consider your happiness and well-being worth my time, no matter what views you hold or hobbies you have.

EDIT: OT: I hate the social restrictions on affectionate expression. I mean seriously, I love hugging and cuddling and what-not, and it frustrates me that I am so restricted in expressing ym affection towards my friennds due to the stupid sexual connotations associated with them. I mean really? I hug you, so I must want to stick my penis in you? That's just stupid. If I hug it is because I think you are a good person and I consider you to have an emotionally-centralised value in my life (friends and family for the most part).

 

[Creator002]

Political correctness ("Baa baa rainbow sheep" anyone?).
There are no bad dead people (especially Osama and Hitler. Great guys!).
Religious Intolerence/Fundementalism (can't we leave each other alone?).
"Wow, that girl is hot, right?" "No." "You're gay."
"OH, MY GOD!!!! A CELEBRATY. LET'S CELEBRATE HIS EVERY MOVE!!!"

I'm sure there's more.